Will PK Subban be a Hall of Famer when it is all said and done?

[Nick Hansen]

Looking at his resume, it certainly could be argued it looks like a HOF resume up until now. 667 games and 413 pts. 3x all-star and a Norris to go with Norris-3 and Norris-3. But he has been heavily declining the last couple of years and it remains to be seen how long he can still play at a good level. His decline the last year or so has been really noticeable. Resume-wise, at this point, a player like Doug Wilson could be a good fit but he had a much longer career. Subban I am not sure will reach 1000 games.

And I do think his trade-partner Shea Weber would be more apt to go in despite never winning a Norris. Subban won in a shortened season and is nowhere near close to the level Weber is showing at 34 years of age.

What do you think?

 

[Killer Orca]

No he has fallen off a cliff and his peak wasn't long enough to say he's already in.

 

[GlitchMarner]

No he has fallen off a cliff and his peak wasn't long enough to say he's already in.

Agreed. Not every defenseman who has won a Norris will make it. Burns may not, either.

 

[ViD]

Not even close

/thread

 

[Iceman]

I don’t think so but how many dmen that have won the Norris aren’t in? Carlyle?

 

[GlitchMarner]

I don’t think so but how many dmen that have won the Norris aren’t in? Carlyle?

Doug Wilson is another one.

 

[Big Phil]

No, I don't think so. There is something different about him now. Before with Montreal and even with Nashville he had this flash to him that sort of X-factor. He still made you nervous because he was capable of carrying the puck end to end but just as capable of coughing it up at his own blue line. He was very high risk. Which is why he was sort of left on the bench during the 2014 Olympics and not even picked for the 2016 World Cup. I think that Weber trade looks good - for Montreal. Weber is still playing at a level where if there was a Canadian Olympic team picked he is arguably still on it, and he was a staple for several years.

Subban just didn't remain great year after year. He won the Norris in 2013 and finished 3rd two other times. The problem is, he is the complete opposite in other years. Never doing better than 14th any other year. That's just way too hot and cold for me. Plus there are things that bother me a great deal about him. Here he is letting the puck skip by him and just having a half-hearted effort to get the puck back and this is with a 1-0 deficit in Game 6 of the 2017 Cup final. Yeah sure Hagelin is fast and Subban probably doesn't catch him anyway for the empty netter, but Subban just gives up on the play. 4:30 start watching.


But either way I don't think he had near enough good years. Even in 2013 when he wins the Norris that is the weakest Norris ever possibly. He held out in the beginning of the year, then does this in a lockout shortened year when Karlsson is injured, Letang misses enough games or else he is likely to grab the Norris and Suter barely loses to him and quite frankly was the better rounded defenseman that year. Subban wasn't killing a lot of penalties at this time, and that always bothers me when a supposed star defensemen isn't doing this a whole lot. Karlsson winning in 2012 while not being a penalty killer bothered me too, as did the support for Mike Green in his big years. So really, that Norris was about as weak as can get. He had that dynamic where he scared you a bit with his speed and such and willingness to carry the puck without fear but he also made some bad decisions.

Carlyle and Wilson are the only two defensemen eligible for the HHOF who aren't in. However, in recent years there will be more. Subban is probably one of them. Giordano will be too. Hedman looks like he'll be fine in that department and we'll see how the rest of Burns' career goes. But either way, this is being on the wrong side of history if you don't get in with a Norris, but Subban should be that guy. The guy has fallen off a cliff at the age of 30 and I honestly don't know why he's fallen so hard. But that is not a HHOF defenseman.

 

[ESH]

He’s been too inconsistent season-to-season and I’m not sure he’s going to stick around past his mid-30s.

 

[The Panther]

Subban hasn't been the same for me since I saw him dressed in a bikini. Some things should just not be seen...

I like his skill-set a lot, and I like his flash on the ice. But, like everyone says, he's very hot and cold. Maybe he's a great player, but not an impact player. Like, if he's on an already good team, he stands out, but if he's on a poor team, he can't really make them better. I dunno.

 

[Voight]

I don’t think so but how many dmen that have won the Norris aren’t in? Carlyle?

He and Wilson are the only eligible ones who aren't in (coincidentally they won it back to back).

As for current players, Chara & Keith are locks. Doughty / Karlsson will probably get in as well.

 

[The Panther]

It's been said before, but Rod Langway's two Norrises are definitetly in part a response by voters to Carlisle and Wilson. It's as if voters suddenly realized they had voted two non-HOF-worthy defencemen to consecutive Norrises on account of their point totals, and so everyone did a complete 360 and voted for the most all-defence / no-offense guy they could think of.

 

[bobholly39]

Honestly - defensemens usually get in because they tend to age well and have good longevity.

I know PK is having an off year 20 games in but we'll have to wait and see. If he's "done" - he probably wont get in no. But if he bounces back and ages well? He might.

Great playoff resume too

 

[Voight]

It's been said before, but Rod Langway's two Norrises are definitetly in part a response by voters to Carlisle and Wilson. It's as if voters suddenly realized they had voted two non-HOF-worthy defencemen to consecutive Norrises on account of their point totals, and so everyone did a complete 360 and voted for the most all-defence / no-offense guy they could think of.

& then went right back to all-offence with Coffey

 

[vikash1987]

PK has probably been my favorite player in the league over the past decade---especially when I combine all his on-ice accomplishments with his leadership, colorful personality, charitable giving, relationships with fans and the media, etc. And when Ray Shero signed him as a Devil this summer, I was ecstatic.

I think that, now that he's in his 30s, his career trajectory remains a bit uncertain. If he continues to stagnate and/or fall off in performance, then he's not a strong case for the HHOF when all said in done (when looking at his resume up until this point). But if he gets back some of his magic, and if he's able to lead his team to a couple deep playoff runs before retirement, then it's a different story. Then he's a legitimate candidate.

I also think that the first quarter of this season shouldn't skew people's perceptions about an entire career. I too would encourage a "wait and see" attitude.

 

[The Panther]

& then went right back to all-offence with Coffey

I know you're being silly, but there's a rather huge difference there. Coffey was scoring 120 to 130 points; Wilson / Carlyle 85-ish. Coffey was +70; Wilson / Carlyle +1 to -16. Coffey for a President's Trophy winner; Wilson / Carlyle for sub-.500 teams.

 

[Nerowoy nora tolad]

Subban hasn't been the same for me since I saw him dressed in a bikini. Some things should just not be seen...

I like his skill-set a lot, and I like his flash on the ice. But, like everyone says, he's very hot and cold. Maybe he's a great player, but not an impact player. Like, if he's on an already good team, he stands out, but if he's on a poor team, he can't really make them better. I dunno.

Thank you, Ive been needing a reason to gouge my eyes out

 

[DannyGallivan]

Yes he will. Not a shadow of a doubt.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

He is going to have to totally re-invent himself if so. His first two years in Nashville he was our best player. That version of P.K. could have made the HOF if he kept it up for say 6 more years. But then his third year was a plummet off a cliff. And it doesn't seem like anything has changed in NJ. How much of it is physical (degenerative disc/poor training regime) and how much of it is mental (off-ice interests), I don't think we have a clear picture. But if he gets back in the picture he's going to have to find a way to change whatever has gone off the rails in his play... either healing the injury or re-dedicating his approach to the game, whatever. He'll have to put up a number of years as a Norris candidate once again to be HOF worthy. The optics of that happening aren't great atm, alas.

 

[sr edler]

He won his Norris in a shortened season and he squeezed it out (mostly on offensive production) against not prime Chelios or Bourque or Lidström or Pronger or even Niedermayer but against Ryan Suter. Now I like Suter but he's not HHOF material either. And neither are Giordano or Burns.

 

[Whaleafs]

 

[Plural]

The way he's playing now, nope. The way it looks like he's not going to surpass guys like Timonen in my books.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Oh my no...as he leaves his athletic prime, he has fallen off considerably. He really plays a complicated game. Every breakout has like three spin moves, a back flip, juggling chainsaws on a motorcycle and all this stuff...buddy, just snap it ahead to Hall or Hischier and follow up the play...that's all. He doesn't get that right now and if he doesn't figure it out, he's gonna be in real tough shape...

Definitely not a HOFer...just off-hand, but what does he offer career wise over, say, Steve Duchesne...? Anything...? More fun I guess...?

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

My initial thought was hell no. Then I look at his production and consistency over time and think someone would have to be the biggest PK mark ever to even say "well maybe"

 

[The Macho King]

His Norris is going to be easy to asterisk (shortened season), but at the end of the day he's a 3-time post season all-star with two other top three finishes.

I think one of the things will hurt him is there isn't a steady stream of top 3/10 finishes, it's basically a spike then no real Norris consideration, followed by a spike and another drop, then another spike before a drop. So yeah he's three times top 3, but he's also... three times top 10.

Comparatively, Doug Wilson has a Norris, a 3rd, and two 4th place finishes. So we have 4 times top 10 and without much of an asterisk on his Norris win. Subban's case is worse than Wilson's.

 

[MXD]

I think his undoing will be the lack of "very good-to-elite" longevity. His top-end is enough, but his 4th best season would be the worse of any "modern" HHOF D-Men. He WAS also... at the very least underrated defensively, if anything, at the beginning of his career, but with his athleticism dwinding for a number of reasons (injuries and bulking up too much), his defense took a serious dip, and there's the non-negligible chance he gets remember as a guy that was bad defensively precisely because his defense was mostly athleticism-based and is, as such, dwindling over time.