Will Atlanta Get Another Team?

[BKIslandersFan]

The only 2 reasons Washington got a third chance was because Washington is good baseball market & victims of bad ownership & deserved that rare 3rd chance 2 there was nowhere else to move the Montreal Expos at the time but Washington DC. .

Atlanta failed twice because it was just plain bad market to put an NHL. team & within the next 10 - 15 years the we will see 2 maybe 3 relocations & a possible 2 more expansion teams pending how Vegas & Seattle will turn out & I would not put Atlanta on that list .

Quebec City
Houston
Portland
Southern Ontario

Washington is good baseball market with no context provided why.

Atlanta is bad with no context provided why it’s somehow worse than Nashville or Pittsburgh.

Ok.

 

[NSHPreds1835]

The only 2 reasons Washington got a third chance was because Washington is good baseball market & victims of bad ownership & deserved that rare 3rd chance 2 there was nowhere else to move the Montreal Expos at the time but Washington DC. .

Atlanta failed twice because it was just plain bad market to put an NHL. team & within the next 10 - 15 years the we will see 2 maybe 3 relocations & a possible 2 more expansion teams pending how Vegas & Seattle will turn out & I would not put Atlanta on that list .

Quebec City
Houston
Portland
Southern Ontario

You probably could have said that Atlanta was a bad football and baseball market for a long period of time when the Braves and Falcons were both garbage, the Falcons had never had back to back winning seasons until the 2008 and 2009 seasons. The Thrashers never gave the casual fan a reason to stick around, the excitement was there in the beginning and the 06-07 season was a lot of fun but outside of that? There was really nothing to cheer for.

 

[uhlaw97]

Answer: Atlanta shouldn't get another team.

Houston should be the next in line for expansion or relocation.

 

[NSHPreds1835]

Answer: Atlanta shouldn't get another team.

Houston should be the next in line for expansion or relocation.

There really is no "next in line" for relocation as it all depends on who is buying. Even for expansion, does anyone really see the NHL going past 32 teams with the 32nd being Seattle?

 

[BKIslandersFan]

There really is no "next in line" for relocation as it all depends on who is buying. Even for expansion, does anyone really see the NHL going past 32 teams with the 32nd being Seattle?

. 30-32 only seems right for us because all Big 4 leagues are around that range.

NPSL, a minor league soccer org, has 98 teams.

 

[Howie Hodge]

. 30-32 only seems right for us because all Big 4 leagues are around that range.

NPSL, a minor league soccer org, has 98 teams.

NPSL is more like an association than a league in reality though. Broken into four Regional areas, containing 13 conferences between them, almost all conferences having between 5 to 9 teams ...

They then go into playoffs and play down to a final. How bout dem Elm City Express lasy year, eh??

But then I'm partial to the old NPSL Indoor league as I worked for The Buffalo Blizzard.....

 

[BLNY]

Poor ownership ( twice) led to the Flames & the Thrashers leaving. That said, it's a large market with a unique culture.

So, should Atlanta be awarded a franchise in the next few years?

NOPE.

Seattle first, and I can think of a couple of former markets that would get considerable thought before going back to Atlanta.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

NOPE.

Seattle first, and I can think of a couple of former markets that would get considerable thought before going back to Atlanta.

Obviously. Seattle has a buyer willing to pay and has access to a good arena.

The answer is explained a couple posts up by @NSHPreds1835. It all comes down to a willing owner, with a suitable arena, who has pockets deep enough to pay steep expansion or, in some rare cases, relocation fees. If, say, this owner happens to pop up in Atlanta, the NHL will not say "Sorry, Houston (or whoever) is first. We're just waiting on someone to be willing to own a team".

 

[NSHPreds1835]

I'm curious to see just exactly how Atlanta fans decided to go once the Thrashers left, what % became Preds fans, what % picked another team like Tampa, Carolina, what % decided to follow the Jets. Also curious if anyone decided to just say F*** the NHL.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

I'm curious to see just exactly how Atlanta fans decided to go once the Thrashers left, what % became Preds fans, what % picked another team like Tampa, Carolina, what % decided to follow the Jets. Also curious if anyone decided to just say F*** the NHL.

I’d say most the posters that regularly posted here left the site, sadly.

 

[dkitson16]

The only 2 reasons Washington got a third chance was because Washington is good baseball market & victims of bad ownership & deserved that rare 3rd chance 2 there was nowhere else to move the Montreal Expos at the time but Washington DC. .

Atlanta failed twice because it was just plain bad market to put an NHL. team & within the next 10 - 15 years the we will see 2 maybe 3 relocations & a possible 2 more expansion teams pending how Vegas & Seattle will turn out & I would not put Atlanta on that list .

Atlanta is no worse a market than a lot of existing NHL cities that are currently great markets after a period of winning. Atlanta never got that chance

 

[nhlfan79]

I'm curious to see just exactly how Atlanta fans decided to go once the Thrashers left, what % became Preds fans, what % picked another team like Tampa, Carolina, what % decided to follow the Jets. Also curious if anyone decided to just say F*** the NHL.

My best guess is most Thrashers fans were already fans of other NHL teams when the franchise was awarded, and the Thrashers never gave them any reason to change their primary allegiance. Rather, the Thrashers were simply the vehicle that allowed them to see their old "home" team a couple of times a year. There are plenty of transplanted northerners here who love hockey, but each discrete block of fans only came a couple of times a season. If only the Thrashers had attempted to ice a competitive team that would've unified all of those potential supporters...

Once the Thrashers left, I suspect the fans kept on supporting their original teams, just as they did pre-Thrashers. There are plenty of NHL team logos/stickers on cars around town.

 

[SImpelton]

No, but not for the reason the arrogant Canadian hockey chauvenists want to say there is. The fact of the matter is, while Atlanta is one of the most important media markets in the country, it's hard to get an owner to make a big investment in a property like an NHL team where it has failed twice before.

Atlanta is really behind the 8 ball in the quest for a strong owner, and that's the single most important ingredient. If an owner is found who's interested in doing the real hard work of building a viable franchise in the South, there are markets in the NHL right now that are LESS well suited for hockey than Atlanta, that are doing just fine.

There is nothing in particular about Atlanta that prevents that from happening. Everyone thought the Predators were doomed, but they've carved out a great little space for themselves in the NHL and have become a Southern success story. The problem is in the absence of an intrinsic interest in NHL hockey, owners have to find a way to stand out in a crowded sports market.

This is not unique to the South. The difference is that the "mainstream" NHL markets already did a lot of that hard work, while it still needs to be done in nontraditional markets. The teams that can find a way to excite the fans, will succeed. The teams that can't will struggle. And the key to that is ownership. And ownership will be even harder to find now than ever in Atlanta because of prior failures.

The failure of Atlanta hockey is, in other words, on the verge of becoming, if it hasn't already become, a self-fulfilling prophecy, at least partly because of the negative Nancying of the Canadian chauvenists, and partly because previous owners were not able to find the way to penetrate the market (the difference between that and no such way existing in the first place are a matter of discussion and one of the primary fallacies of the Canadian chauvenists).

 

[SavageSteve]

No, but not for the reason the arrogant Canadian hockey chauvenists want to say there is. The fact of the matter is, while Atlanta is one of the most important media markets in the country, it's hard to get an owner to make a big investment in a property like an NHL team where it has failed twice before.

Atlanta is really behind the 8 ball in the quest for a strong owner, and that's the single most important ingredient. If an owner is found who's interested in doing the real hard work of building a viable franchise in the South, there are markets in the NHL right now that are LESS well suited for hockey than Atlanta, that are doing just fine.

There is nothing in particular about Atlanta that prevents that from happening. Everyone thought the Predators were doomed, but they've carved out a great little space for themselves in the NHL and have become a Southern success story. The problem is in the absence of an intrinsic interest in NHL hockey, owners have to find a way to stand out in a crowded sports market.

This is not unique to the South. The difference is that the "mainstream" NHL markets already did a lot of that hard work, while it still needs to be done in nontraditional markets. The teams that can find a way to excite the fans, will succeed. The teams that can't will struggle. And the key to that is ownership. And ownership will be even harder to find now than ever in Atlanta because of prior failures.

The failure of Atlanta hockey is, in other words, on the verge of becoming, if it hasn't already become, a self-fulfilling prophecy, at least partly because of the negative Nancying of the Canadian chauvenists, and partly because previous owners were not able to find the way to penetrate the market (the difference between that and no such way existing in the first place are a matter of discussion and one of the primary fallacies of the Canadian chauvenists).

I think in Nashville that you also have to take into account that ownership went out and got good people in Jeff Cogen and Sean Henry to run the organization's business-side too. Before that under Leipold's ownership, they didn't manage the asset of the arena very well and beyond Preds games, maybe had 40 more events (concerts, Disney on Ice, monster trucks, etc.) beyond that. The new ownership renegotiated the lease with the City for incentive to have more events and then made sure to keep events going in the building to make sure that they maximized value in the building when the lights, HVAC, etc are already on anyway ringing up bills. I think there are 200+ events a year in that arena now instead of 80 or so. I was a season ticket holder for a number of years and will say that Sean Henry bought me and the guys around me a few beers when I renewed my season tickets, also always got discounted pre-sale ticket offers to other shows in Bridgestone offered, etc. The idea was to add value to being a season ticket holder and also to have you in the building as often as possible buying concessions, etc to make coin. The idea was that even if the team lost, you were still having a good night out with friends. Having events made Lower Broadway that much more of a destination than it was, that led to the outpouring of fans flocking the streets for the Finals. It's a lot more involved than just opening the doors and having good hockey fans roll in for a reputation... and we were ridiculed for years.

 

[SImpelton]

I think in Nashville that you also have to take into account that ownership went out and got good people in Jeff Cogen and Sean Henry to run the organization's business-side too. Before that under Leipold's ownership, they didn't manage the asset of the arena very well and beyond Preds games, maybe had 40 more events (concerts, Disney on Ice, monster trucks, etc.) beyond that. The new ownership renegotiated the lease with the City for incentive to have more events and then made sure to keep events going in the building to make sure that they maximized value in the building when the lights, HVAC, etc are already on anyway ringing up bills. I think there are 200+ events a year in that arena now instead of 80 or so. I was a season ticket holder for a number of years and will say that Sean Henry bought me and the guys around me a few beers when I renewed my season tickets, also always got discounted pre-sale ticket offers to other shows in Bridgestone offered, etc. The idea was to add value to being a season ticket holder and also to have you in the building as often as possible buying concessions, etc to make coin. The idea was that even if the team lost, you were still having a good night out with friends. Having events made Lower Broadway that much more of a destination than it was, that led to the outpouring of fans flocking the streets for the Finals. It's a lot more involved than just opening the doors and having good hockey fans roll in for a reputation... and we were ridiculed for years.

That's the point. There's nothing here that an Atlanta ownership couldn't do. The difference is they can't milk it and be absentee owners like a lot in the North are (looking at you in particular, Ottawa).

They can't rest on the work already done by others like a lot of Northern ownership does, especially in Canada, because it wasn't done by others, so they have to do it themselves. It's a frontier, and they need to plan accordingly. They have to invest their own time, energy and abilities in bringing in people with the ability to make this thing succeed. the reward is worth the effort, but first they have to DO the work.

 

[BlueAero]

Atlanta has already lost two franchises. Houston is the 4th largest city in the nation....time we had our shot. Rockets owner Tillman Fertittia has already met with Bettman about this and supposedly the NHL is eyeing the Houston media market very seriously. Plenty of Yankee transplants (like me) to support a team. Unlikely to be an expansion but troubled franchises like Arizona or Calgary might be an option. WE WANT HOCKEY IN HOUSTON.

 

[WHISTLERNATE]

I can't think that Atlanta will get a team again. The city has a lot going for it in terms of potential corporate support, but fan interest fell off due to lack of success. I think the NHL can survive in non traditional markets just fine, but must have some level of success to sustain interest. Atlanta could have worked if the team wasn't so bad.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

I doubt Atlanta gets another team soon but saying never seems kinda foolish seeing history of professional team expansions and relocations.

 

[Rick Kehoe]

Washington is good baseball market with no context provided why.

Atlanta is bad with no context provided why it’s somehow worse than Nashville or Pittsburgh.

Ok.

Pittsburgh has never been a bad market for pro hockey, it's been ownership issues which directly led to the financial issues of the past. When you can't deliver a winning product in a smaller market with two other more established pro sports franchises, that's going to impact attendance. And keep in mind the loss of population, especially when Pittsburgh had a recession with the downturn of the steel industry. Thousands and thousands of fans had to leave the area, and relocated across the USA.

Pittsburgh is one of the birthplaces of pro hockey in this country, with a tradition dating back to the early 1900s. And even before the Penguins were born, the Hornets existed for decades. Completely different situation than either Nashville or Atlanta.

 

[Killion]

Pittsburgh is one of the birthplaces of pro hockey in this country, with a tradition dating back to the early 1900s.

.... actually "the" birthplace of pro hockey (and gridiron football for that matter)
with the formation of the pro-am Western Pennsylvania Hockey League in 1902.

 

[HisIceness]

I'm curious to see just exactly how Atlanta fans decided to go once the Thrashers left, what % became Preds fans, what % picked another team like Tampa, Carolina, what % decided to follow the Jets. Also curious if anyone decided to just say F*** the NHL.

Nashville did a 'Thrash to Smash' campaign that brought in a lot of Thrasher fans. I'm pretty sure most of them switched to the Predators. A small few did come to our side (Carolina) but since Nashville is closer to Atlanta and wasn't a division rival, it just made more sense to become Predator fans.

 

[NSHPreds1835]

Nashville did a 'Thrash to Smash' campaign that brought in a lot of Thrasher fans. I'm pretty sure most of them switched to the Predators. A small few did come to our side (Carolina) but since Nashville is closer to Atlanta and wasn't a division rival, it just made more sense to become Predator fans.

Yep I am familiar with the Thrash to Smash campaign that they did, I thought it was pretty clever on their part. They also had a nice video in arena the first time Winnipeg visited that I think many in attendance appreciated.

 

[killer1980]

Sure! The NHL loves to put teams in non-hockey U.S. markets. They'll keep doing it until they get it right.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Pittsburgh has never been a bad market for pro hockey, it's been ownership issues which directly led to the financial issues of the past. When you can't deliver a winning product in a smaller market with two other more established pro sports franchises, that's going to impact attendance. And keep in mind the loss of population, especially when Pittsburgh had a recession with the downturn of the steel industry. Thousands and thousands of fans had to leave the area, and relocated across the USA.

Pittsburgh is one of the birthplaces of pro hockey in this country, with a tradition dating back to the early 1900s. And even before the Penguins were born, the Hornets existed for decades. Completely different situation than either Nashville or Atlanta.

These statements are direct contradictions.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Yes, Atlanta should get another shot. I don't get why the league has not contacted the new hawks owners