Will Atlanta Get Another Team?

[voyageur]

If the NHL was willing to change its geographical restrictions, Atlanta would be an interesting location if the Coyotes relocated. Same division with the Preds, a geographical rival. A market that competes financially with division rivals St. Louis, Dallas and Colorado. A chance to play against its former incarnation.

The NHL will gladly take Home Depot sponsorship and other big investors on board. But I still think Houston will get the next team after Seattle expansion.

 

[aqib]

Aqib is an american.

Dual citizen, moved back to Canada years ago.

 

[aqib]

That. Is. Not. What. Happened.

Don’t tell people they are wrong when you have no idea what actually happened. Just stop.

This happened a little over 2 months after the sale of the Thrashers was announced:

Hawks confirm Alex Meruelo has agreement to buy majority share of team

Also, like I said Jamison wasn't the buyer in 2011 it was Hulsizer
Glendale pays NHL $25 million to keep Coyotes for one more year | The Star

Jameson was 2012, like I said:

Jamison Still Trying To Raise Money To Purchase Coyotes

Spend 30 seconds on google and get your facts straight first before you tell me to stop or I have no idea what happened.

 

[aqib]

We've been through this before in other threads. Your timeline is wrong. ASG entered into a sham exclusive negotiating agreement with former San Diego Padres owner John Moores for the Hawks and arena only, thereby isolating the Thrashers for sale and relocation. This move made it legally impossible for any of the multiple interested buyers in all three properties from being able to make an offer that would have kept the team in Atlanta. Not coincidentally, the exclusive negotiating period with Moores ended the same day the Thrashers deal with True North was finalized. It's not a conspiracy to say the Thrashers were intentionally evicted. It's verifiable fact.

Atlanta Spirit Enters Exclusive Negotiations For Hawks With John Moores

Unless you're talking about ASG's post-Thrasher attempt to sell the Hawks to some pizza guy who didn't have enough money to even get off the launching pad.

Yes that deal was the one I was referring to. That deal (even though it fell through) indicated they were fine with selling both teams so a buyer who was interested could have bought both.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

This happened a little over 2 months after the sale of the Thrashers was announced:

Hawks confirm Alex Meruelo has agreement to buy majority share of team

Also, like I said Jamison wasn't the buyer in 2011 it was Hulsizer
Glendale pays NHL $25 million to keep Coyotes for one more year | The Star

Jameson was 2012, like I said:

Jamison Still Trying To Raise Money To Purchase Coyotes

Spend 30 seconds on google and get your facts straight first before you tell me to stop or I have no idea what happened.

You may be right about Coyotes but you have no clue about Atlanta. Everything else you spout here has been nonsense.

 

[nhlfan79]

Yes that deal was the one I was referring to. That deal (even though it fell through) indicated they were fine with selling both teams so a buyer who was interested could have bought both.

And that's the flaw in your thinking. You're not looking at this situation in the way that ASG did. ASG was never "fine" with selling the two teams together, as the only thing they ever wanted was the basketball team and control of the arena. They had to cut loose the Thrashers first because, to their warped thinking, any revenue derived from the hockey team was money not spent by Atlanta fans on their preferred sport of basketball. Hence, the sham deal with Moores.

The allegations ASG made in its malpractice lawsuit against the law firm that drew up the "flawed" Belkin buyout contract verify this. The Meruelo non-deal was a transparent sham to re-generate goodwill after booting the Thrashers, who always drew more fans than their preferred Hawks. ("Well, we tried...."). There was never a real intent to sell at that time, as they easily could have found someone with the actual financial wherewithal to make the purchase, not a chump change pizza huckster. It was just another part of their long con.

 

[Grudy0]

Yes that deal was the one I was referring to. That deal (even though it fell through) indicated they were fine with selling both teams so a buyer who was interested could have bought both.

Except there's this little problem with setting up exclusivity...

The tentative agreement between ASG and True North was signed 31 May 2011.

What was done prior? ASG's Micheal Gearon started whining in February 2011 that they'll need investors or they'll ship the team out. All kinds of interested parties contacted ASG about a package deal for the arena operating rights, the Hawks and the Thrashers.

However, in May 2011, ASG signed a letter giving then-outgoing chairman of the MLB San Diego Padres John Moores an exclusive negotiating period to purchase only the Hawks and the arena operating rights. No one could buy all three even if they wanted to.

That was the joke of the whole timeline. ASG claimed they wanted investors, but that was only for the Thrashers - if they wanted investors to all three, they wouldn't have setup an exclusive period with John Moores at the 11th hour.

No one was going to purchase only a hockey team and pay rent to the same people that controlled the arena. And ASG perfectly made it so no one could get all three.

Go back to "Pretty Woman" - ASG were a bunch of corporate raiders looking to recoup their investment by selling off their investment in pieces. Just because they setup a sham sale to Merulo a couple of months later doesn't absolve their actions for the seven years prior, scorching and salting the hockey team by extricating the Thrashers from the Hawks/Philips Arena as a standalone business and driving hockey operations and fandom into the ground, then making it impossible for anyone to purchase all three businesses.

 

[TheLegend]

You may be right about Coyotes but you have no clue about Atlanta. Everything else you spout here has been nonsense.

He was correct about the timing... when posting above, I’d forgotten about the Reinsdorf/IceEdge attempts that were covered by Glendale’s original $25M spent propping the NHLs running of the franchise....

But he’s still making a load of presumptions that are not completely in line with what happened in Atlanta (“crappy attendance”, etc)..... Or Arizona....

Then again that’s BoH for ya.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

He was correct about the timing... when posting above, I’d forgotten about the Reinsdorf/IceEdge attempts that were covered by Glendale’s original $25M spent propping the NHLs running of the franchise....

But he’s still making a load of presumptions that are not completely in line with what happened in Atlanta (“crappy attendance”, etc)..... Or Arizona....

Then again that’s BoH for ya.

The nationalism here is insane.

 

[TheLegend]

The nationalism here is insane.

I prefer not to put labels on these discussions. It tends to stop most people from looking deeper into the subject.

People like Balsillie did, but even that was just more of a means to an end rather than what it was all about.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

But he’s still making a load of presumptions that are not completely in line with what happened in Atlanta (“crappy attendance”, etc)..... Or Arizona....

"My life would be soooo much better if the NHL was in Cleveland, Hamilton, and GTA2 instead of Miami, Phoenix, and Raleigh"

 

[BattleBorn]

Okay, let's not do this.

If there's mistakes or faulty information, refute it or ignore it.

The fact that Atlanta wasn't great attendance-wise doesn't mean any more today than the fact that Chicago/Pittsburgh/whatever also sucked at one point in time with the exception of the fact that there's additional data for Chicago and Pittsburgh after they sucked. Atlanta just has no opportunity to add to their weak data set.

It's fairly obvious that Atlanta got a pretty cruddy deal on hockey a couple of times, or that Phoenix/Arizona made a fairly decent sized mistake locating themselves in Glendale despite that seeming like a good idea at the time.

Sitting here and saying Atlanta sucks and shouldn't get another team or that Arizona should never see live hockey again is nothing more than a hot take with no evidence. I realize it gets hard having to repeat the same story a million times if you're an Atlanta/Phoenix advocate, but if someone else's concept refuting your belief isn't fleshed out, flesh it out. If it's not worth the effort, let it sit there.

 

[MNNumbers]

Thanks, BB

However, when the Coyotes moved to Glendale, it wasn't a big mistake. It was taking the only option available. They had their own place, and the benefits of managing the arena. And early attendance there was better than late attendance in Phoenix. It was in every way a good move.

What has transpired since beggers belief.

 

[dkitson16]

Thrashers outdrew Hawks, you do know that?

And also, its a lot easier to give a team to cities with potential corporate clients versus giving it to city without one.

For all those interested in how "bad" Atlanta's attendance is see below and my next post. The NBA Hawks are included for comparison. The Hawks make alot of money off national TV tights but perhaps not so much at the gate. Perhaps the wrong team left town?


So here's the Atlanta Flames attendance and some comparables from 1972-1973 to 1979-1980. This is the teams average attendance over the seasons the Flames were in Atlanta.
Blackhawks only reported 4 years of attendance in those 9 years,

Atlanta Flames	1972-80
Bruins	13,525
NHL	13,429
Jets	13,284
Red Wings	12,950
Atlanta	12,327
North Stars	11,915
Kings	11,450
Blackhawks*	10,988
Penguins	10,837
Quebec	10,742
Capitals	10,313
Whalers	9,854
Rockies	8,335
Scouts	7,624
Hawks NBA	7,345
Barons	5,935
Seals	5,830

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[dkitson16]

And now the Thrashers. Relatively speaking not as good as the Flames, as the weak teams all strengthened after the Flames left. Still not too far off some hockey markets. Not too far behind the Caps Bruins and Penguins.

Of note in the last 30 year the Islanders only averaged above 15000 once in 2014-2015. That local tv contract must be good, otherwise why build Belmont?

Atlanta Thrashers	1999-2011
NHL	16,884
Capitals	15,995
Bruins	15,970
Penguins	15,963
Panthers	15,579
Hurricanes	15,192
Devils	15,160
Ducks	14,959
Predators	14,933
Thrashers	14,914
Hawks NBA	14,796
Coyotes	14,138
Islanders	12,814

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

And now the Thrashers. Relatively speaking not as good as the Flames, as the weak teams all strengthened after the Flames left. Still not too far off some hockey markets. Not too far behind the Caps Bruins and Penguins.

Of note in the last 30 year the Islanders only averaged above 15000 once in 2014-2015. That local tv contract must be good, otherwise why build Belmont?

Atlanta Thrashers	1999-2011
NHL	16,884
Capitals	15,995
Bruins	15,970
Penguins	15,963
Panthers	15,579
Hurricanes	15,192
Devils	15,160
Ducks	14,959
Predators	14,933
Thrashers	14,914
Hawks NBA	14,796
Coyotes	14,138
Islanders	12,814

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

To add, Thrashers attendance numbers dropped by 500-1,000 each year after the ASG bought the team starting in 06-07. Everyone knew the ownership was garbage. They were much closer to that average number prior.

 

[Red Dread]

If it could get proper ownership and an arena, I'd personally like it. In those conditions, I don't see the NHL shying away from the opportunity because of the past. Atlanta's too big.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

The NHL has been burned by bad ownership in the past. It'll have to be slam dunk, no doubt, ownership.

 

[MNNumbers]

The NHL has been burned by bad ownership in the past. It'll have to be slam dunk, no doubt, ownership.

This is a horrible pun to use when discussing a city which once hosted the Flames.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

This is a horrible pun to use when discussing a city which once hosted the Flames.

Would you believe it wasn't on purpose?

 

[MNNumbers]

The NHL has been burned by bad ownership in the past. It'll have to be slam dunk, no doubt, ownership.

This is a horrible pun to use when discussing a city which once hosted the Flames.

Would you believe it wasn't on purpose?

I sure would.....

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

LOL...good stuff.

Honestly, Atlanta is a top-10 population market and over the last 25 years, the population has heavily shifted south (Atlanta is top-3 net migration during that time) . The corporate presence is HUGE in Atlanta (#3 for Fortune 500 HQ's behind New York and Chicago). These are all favorable traits for any market.

That said, Houston shares these traits. There needs to be a willing owner, with an arena, with extremely deep pockets to even have a chance. As of today, I'm not hearing much outside of a few rumors. I do believe Atlanta will get another shot within the next 15-20 years, but it will certainly be awhile.

 

[Killion]

LOL...good stuff.

Honestly, Atlanta is a top-10 population market and over the last 25 years, the population has heavily shifted south (Atlanta is top-3 net migration during that time) . The corporate presence is HUGE in Atlanta (#3 for Fortune 500 HQ's behind New York and Chicago). These are all favorable traits for any market.

That said, Houston shares these traits. There needs to be a willing owner, with an arena, with extremely deep pockets to even have a chance. As of today, I'm not hearing much outside of a few rumors. I do believe Atlanta will get another shot within the next 15-20 years, but it will certainly be awhile.

Scorched Earth down there Man. It would take a very special individual or ownership group.

 

[hangman005]

The NHL has been burned by bad ownership in the past. It'll have to be slam dunk, no doubt, ownership.

This is a horrible pun to use when discussing a city which once hosted the Flames.

Would you believe it wasn't on purpose?

Lol I think the Slam Dunk is pretty bad too for a city that lost it's team because the owners only wanted basketball

 

[StreetHawk]

LOL...good stuff.

Honestly, Atlanta is a top-10 population market and over the last 25 years, the population has heavily shifted south (Atlanta is top-3 net migration during that time) . The corporate presence is HUGE in Atlanta (#3 for Fortune 500 HQ's behind New York and Chicago). These are all favorable traits for any market.

That said, Houston shares these traits. There needs to be a willing owner, with an arena, with extremely deep pockets to even have a chance. As of today, I'm not hearing much outside of a few rumors. I do believe Atlanta will get another shot within the next 15-20 years, but it will certainly be awhile.

With the way Atlanta goes through stadiums I’m sure that the Phillips arena will be demolished for a new one by 2030. Built in 2000.

Georgia Dome built in the 90’s replaced by the Mercedes stadium, and turner field from 1996 replaced by a new ballpark a couple years ago. Lucky to get a quarter of a century out of them down there.

Once that occurs I’m sure that they will try for an NHL team.