Will Atlanta Get Another Team?

[BKIslandersFan]

Corporations only support teams if there is fan interest. You only buy advertising if people are watching games or luxury boxes/club seats if there is enough interest in the team that tickets to the game are a valuable perk to give out to customers or employees. Clearly there wasn't enough fan interest that even when bundled with the Hawks they couldn't break even.

Thrashers outdrew Hawks, you do know that?

And also, its a lot easier to give a team to cities with potential corporate clients versus giving it to city without one.

 

[zetajerk]

Southern Relocation (TM), the magic elixir that fixes frustrated Canadian lives*. Coming to a pharmacy near you.

*This statement has not been evaluated by anyone without a twisted agenda.

 

[powerstuck]

Southern Relocation (TM), the magic elixir that fixes frustrated Canadian lives*. Coming to a pharmacy near you.

*This statement has not been evaluated by anyone without a twisted agenda.

Dunno man, I would qualify the comment as throwing fuel on an already fully ablaze fire.

 

[TheLegend]

Considering that ASG tried to make a deal for the Hawks a few months after selling the Thrashers the idea they were adamant the team leave is just a conspiracy theory with no basis. They weren't even given the go-ahead to negotiate with an out of town buyer until Glendale agreed to pay $25 million for a second straight year with the Coyotes. Had that vote failed the Coyotes would have gone to Winnipeg, locking out that option for the Thrashers.

The league also admitted that a Hamilton team would likely be top 5 in revenue. I have no idea where you're getting that they would be middle of the pack from other than your own imagination.

The amount of revisionism is simply mind blowing here.

ASG was forced to sell when one of their partners made a comment about the lack of non-whites attending their Hawks games.

Glendale paid the second $25 million because the league was still negotiating a sale to the group fronted by Greg Jamison (who had an AMULA worked out with Glendale in hand).

Just as Glendale put up the previous $25 million when they were negotiating with Matt Hulsizer. Had either of those deals closed Glendale would have received their money back. Hulsizer even had $25 million of his money set aside to cover it.

The only thing you’re correct about is where the league placed Hamilton. But even that’s speculation that’s now nearly ten years old.

 

[Tawnos]

Considering that ASG tried to make a deal for the Hawks a few months after selling the Thrashers the idea they were adamant the team leave is just a conspiracy theory with no basis. They weren't even given the go-ahead to negotiate with an out of town buyer until Glendale agreed to pay $25 million for a second straight year with the Coyotes. Had that vote failed the Coyotes would have gone to Winnipeg, locking out that option for the Thrashers.

The league also admitted that a Hamilton team would likely be top 5 in revenue. I have no idea where you're getting that they would be middle of the pack from other than your own imagination.

I’m getting it from other teams who play in markets where a lot of people were already fans of an established team. Ottawa. New Jersey. NY Islanders. There’s a limit to the revenue they can generate. The idea that they’d be a top-5 revenue generator is just extremely optimistic.

As for Atlanta... ASG made the terms of the lease prohibitive enough that most of the interest never went anywhere. And then there were the reports of ASG not doing its due diligence on at least one offer that was put forward. And then there was the story about how they didn’t have any interest in selling to interested buyers who wanted all three assets (Hawks, Thrashers, arena). It’s not hard to draw the conclusion that they simply wanted the hockey team out of there.

 

[aqib]

The amount of revisionism is simply mind blowing here.

ASG was forced to sell when one of their partners made a comment about the lack of non-whites attending their Hawks games.

Glendale paid the second $25 million because the league was still negotiating a sale to the group fronted by Greg Jamison (who had an AMULA worked out with Glendale in hand).

Just as Glendale put up the previous $25 million when they were negotiating with Matt Hulsizer. Had either of those deals closed Glendale would have received their money back. Hulsizer even had $25 million of his money set aside to cover it.

The only thing you’re correct about is where the league placed Hamilton. But even that’s speculation that’s now nearly ten years old.

Wrong. The forced sale was years later. They made a deal a few months after selling the Thrashers which fell through. So clearly they were amenable to selling the Hawks at the same time they sold the Thrashers. The Jameson deal was 2012 (during the lockout) the second $25 million by Glendale was 2011. Your timelines are off.

 

[aqib]

I’m getting it from other teams who play in markets where a lot of people were already fans of an established team. Ottawa. New Jersey. NY Islanders. There’s a limit to the revenue they can generate. The idea that they’d be a top-5 revenue generator is just extremely optimistic.

As for Atlanta... ASG made the terms of the lease prohibitive enough that most of the interest never went anywhere. And then there were the reports of ASG not doing its due diligence on at least one offer that was put forward. And then there was the story about how they didn’t have any interest in selling to interested buyers who wanted all three assets (Hawks, Thrashers, arena). It’s not hard to draw the conclusion that they simply wanted the hockey team out of there.

The NHL is on record in court as saying that. Also, considering how fast they sold 14K season ticket deposits when they were trying to get the Predators its not a stretch to say they would be a top revenue team. You can't compare southern Ontario to the Tri-State area where there are multiple NFL, NBA, and MLB teams in addition to hockey teams.

 

[Tawnos]

The NHL is on record in court as saying that. Also, considering how fast they sold 14K season ticket deposits when they were trying to get the Predators its not a stretch to say they would be a top revenue team. You can't compare southern Ontario to the Tri-State area where there are multiple NFL, NBA, and MLB teams in addition to hockey teams.

What the NHL says about hypotheticals doesn’t move me. Neither does you ignoring that Ottawa was the first example I gave of what happens with intrusive markets.

Hamilton selling those deposits that fast isn’t anything special any more.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

I know, I know. Let it go. He wakes up every few months, spews some nonsense about Mexico City, and then goes away again. He'll do this as long as this board is around, he has the W style "courage of his convictions" on relocation.

 

[hangman005]

Don't post here at BOH much, but regularly lurk.

I once was of the opinion that Atlanta sucked as a market and should never ever see NHL hockey again, but I read a thread here and the articles posted within and actually began to understand what happened especially with the Thrashers.

I think Atlanta could support an NHL team, and I believe they could be successful. But right now, none of the conditions needed are in anyway remotely close to being the start of what is needed. Arena: If I'm not mistaken Phillips is unsuitable for NHL hockey. Owner: Need one, and a great owner. Fanbase: I feel maybe still too soon, could be wrong, but especially after the scorched earth job the Thrashers owners did I think it would probably take alot for to convince the less hardcore fans to buy in.

The NHL doesn't need to fall over itself to get back to Atlanta, infact they shouldn't. But if things developed the NHL shouldn't turn there nose up at it. Be diligent, do it right and try to do everything so there is long term stable ownership, because a 3rd failure is not an option.

 

[nhlfan79]

Considering that ASG tried to make a deal for the Hawks a few months after selling the Thrashers the idea they were adamant the team leave is just a conspiracy theory with no basis...

We've been through this before in other threads. Your timeline is wrong. ASG entered into a sham exclusive negotiating agreement with former San Diego Padres owner John Moores for the Hawks and arena only, thereby isolating the Thrashers for sale and relocation. This move made it legally impossible for any of the multiple interested buyers in all three properties from being able to make an offer that would have kept the team in Atlanta. Not coincidentally, the exclusive negotiating period with Moores ended the same day the Thrashers deal with True North was finalized. It's not a conspiracy to say the Thrashers were intentionally evicted. It's verifiable fact.

Atlanta Spirit Enters Exclusive Negotiations For Hawks With John Moores

Unless you're talking about ASG's post-Thrasher attempt to sell the Hawks to some pizza guy who didn't have enough money to even get off the launching pad.

 

[nhlfan79]

Don't post here at BOH much, but regularly lurk.

I once was of the opinion that Atlanta sucked as a market and should never ever see NHL hockey again, but I read a thread here and the articles posted within and actually began to understand what happened especially with the Thrashers.

I think Atlanta could support an NHL team, and I believe they could be successful. But right now, none of the conditions needed are in anyway remotely close to being the start of what is needed. Arena: If I'm not mistaken Phillips is unsuitable for NHL hockey.

Discussed earlier in the thread, with pics of the newly renovated State Farm Arena. Hockey configuration is not an issue.

As for the strength of the market, Atlanta United just demolished another MLS attendance record with 901,000+ fans for this season, averaging north of 50,000. The Falcons have been sold out for more than 15 years straight, and the Braves in their new ballpark are in the top third of all MLB teams. The myth of a bad pro sports town is complete bunk and has been for a while. It's amazing that a couple of afternoon, midweek non-sellouts in one of baseball's largest stadiums nearly two decades ago still seem to have legs with some people.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Wrong. The forced sale was years later. They made a deal a few months after selling the Thrashers which fell through. So clearly they were amenable to selling the Hawks at the same time they sold the Thrashers. The Jameson deal was 2012 (during the lockout) the second $25 million by Glendale was 2011. Your timelines are off.

We've been through this before in other threads. Your timeline is wrong. ASG entered into a sham exclusive negotiating agreement with former San Diego Padres owner John Moores for the Hawks and arena only, thereby isolating the Thrashers for sale and relocation. This move made it legally impossible for any of the multiple interested buyers in all three properties from being able to make an offer that would have kept the team in Atlanta. Not coincidentally, the exclusive negotiating period with Moores ended the same day the Thrashers deal with True North was finalized. It's not a conspiracy to say the Thrashers were intentionally evicted. It's verifiable fact.

Atlanta Spirit Enters Exclusive Negotiations For Hawks With John Moores

Unless you're talking about ASG's post-Thrasher attempt to sell the Hawks to some pizza guy who didn't have enough money to even get off the launching pad.

Well said (and sourced), nhlfan.

The possible mixup with you, aqib, is the fact that the ownership were vocal about not wanting the Thrashers in the original deal. The sale was for the full package (arena, Hawks, Thrashers) only. A$G were trying to get a deal done for the Hawks and arena only and initially couldn't get a deal done. Time Warner had a handshake deal with David McDavid, but flipped at the last second when A$G decided to take the Thrashers and try to immediately sell them.

ESPN.com: SPORTSBUSINESS - Turner's son-in-law in group buying Hawks, Thrashers

Lawsuit: Thrashers owners have been trying to sell team since 2005

Them suing each other only delayed the inevitable. I still don't understand why the NHL voted in that group when they were vocal about not wanting the team. It was pretty apparent they were garbage owners when seeing attendance drop by about 1,000 each year they owned the team.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Southern Relocation (TM), the magic elixir that fixes frustrated Canadian lives*. Coming to a pharmacy near you.

*This statement has not been evaluated by anyone without a twisted agenda.

Aqib is an american.

 

[bluesfan94]

Question: Could the Georgia gubernatorial election have an effect on Atlanta’s chances? I know coincidentally they arrived under a democratic governor and left under a republican, but I was wondering if that might have an effect. It seems like the Democrat, Abrams, has a good shot of winning even with some alleged ongoing shenanigans. But I haven’t exactly found either candidate’s position on bringing back the NHL.

This popped to mind because St. Louis is taking another bite at the MLS expansion apple partially because Parsons is more willing to work with the ownership group and city than Greitens was.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Question: Could the Georgia gubernatorial election have an effect on Atlanta’s chances? I know coincidentally they arrived under a democratic governor and left under a republican, but I was wondering if that might have an effect. It seems like the Democrat, Abrams, has a good shot of winning even with some alleged ongoing shenanigans. But I haven’t exactly found either candidate’s position on bringing back the NHL.

This popped to mind because St. Louis is taking another bite at the MLS expansion apple partially because Parsons is more willing to work with the ownership group and city than Greitens was.

Good question. I wouldn't think it's come up, but maybe the answer lies with their view on the Gulch development (located across the street from the arena) which is being voted on any day now. Or, maybe their view on expanded development around the Braves stadium or Infinite Energy Arena.

Overall, though, I'm not sure.

 

[Melrose Munch]

The NHL needs to get in contact with Tony Ressler to find out if he wants a team, simple. They did with Houston.

 

[powerstuck]

The NHL needs to get in contact with Tony Ressler to find out if he wants a team, simple. They did with Houston.

The problem with NHL is they don't look for owners, publicly at least they do not. They hint at a general area/city and wait for someone to pick up the bait.

Heck how long were they saying they want to be in the big uncovered market of Pacific North West. They didn't narrow it down to Seattle and/or Portland, but were clearly hinting they wanted to be there.

Just like Houston, they never named it for as long as Alexander Lee was there. Now that there is a new owner...they kinda said ''if, when, maybe''.

Same goes with Atlanta, the league wont say it publicly, it needs to be someone from the area (or at least someone aiming to establish the team in the area) to give them the cue.

 

[nhlfan79]

Well said (and sourced), nhlfan.

The possible mixup with you, aqib, is the fact that the ownership were vocal about not wanting the Thrashers in the original deal. The sale was for the full package (arena, Hawks, Thrashers) only. A$G were trying to get a deal done for the Hawks and arena only and initially couldn't get a deal done. Time Warner had a handshake deal with David McDavid, but flipped at the last second when A$G decided to take the Thrashers and try to immediately sell them.

ESPN.com: SPORTSBUSINESS - Turner's son-in-law in group buying Hawks, Thrashers

Lawsuit: Thrashers owners have been trying to sell team since 2005

Them suing each other only delayed the inevitable. I still don't understand why the NHL voted in that group when they were vocal about not wanting the team. It was pretty apparent they were garbage owners when seeing attendance drop by about 1,000 each year they owned the team.

+1. The only thing I'd add to that recap is that McDavid later successfully sued Time Warner for breach of contract and for sharing his financial information with ASG to allow ASG to better craft their eleventh-hour sweetheart bid. He won $316 million in damages for his lost purchase. Yes, you read that number right.

David McDavid Wins Breach of Contract Suit

Even ASG's initial acquisition of the team was shady.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Wrong. The forced sale was years later. They made a deal a few months after selling the Thrashers which fell through. So clearly they were amenable to selling the Hawks at the same time they sold the Thrashers. The Jameson deal was 2012 (during the lockout) the second $25 million by Glendale was 2011. Your timelines are off.

That. Is. Not. What. Happened.

Don’t tell people they are wrong when you have no idea what actually happened. Just stop.

 

[StreetHawk]

The problem with NHL is they don't look for owners, publicly at least they do not. They hint at a general area/city and wait for someone to pick up the bait.

Heck how long were they saying they want to be in the big uncovered market of Pacific North West. They didn't narrow it down to Seattle and/or Portland, but were clearly hinting they wanted to be there.

Just like Houston, they never named it for as long as Alexander Lee was there. Now that there is a new owner...they kinda said ''if, when, maybe''.

Same goes with Atlanta, the league wont say it publicly, it needs to be someone from the area (or at least someone aiming to establish the team in the area) to give them the cue.

With arena operating agreements, once an arena has a team there without one in either the nba or nhl, it’s pretty much automatic that any chance the other league has of getting into that market lies in whether that owner wants a team in the other league.

There’s no, let’s hope a group or two is interested in Atlanta. Its either Ressler or no one else. Same as the case in Houston and Portland when neither Alexander nor Allen were interested as they controlled the arena.

Seattle, they need the NHL to have the renovations to the Key Arena approved.

Nhl has been interested in the Pacific Northwest for a long time. But Allen didn’t feel like the market could support both nba and nhl or didn’t want a team. And Seattle their arena couldn’t support hockey, thus the major Reno to the Key. NHL hockey in Seattle ended once Seattle didn’t land an expansion team in the early 90’s, and the key under went a Reno which made it basketball specific. Otherwise they would be like the coyotes if they got a team after the Key Reno in the 90’s.

 

[Mightygoose]

The big question to me starts with will there ever be the political will to bring the NHL back? With both teams we're tied to the NBA counterpart. As soon as that ended, they we're no longer viablem

If ASG had no intentions on keeping the Trashers...and let's say that's true...

true bought the assets in 2005, wouldn't those close to the situation know back them they would have really needed their own/controlled venue to make it work. It's been over 7 years since the Trashers left and going back 13 years since ASG took over.

Has there ever been a peep for any business leaders and or politicians in support of a project to bring it back?

To me it starts there, otherwise the league is at the mercy of who owns the NBA team. Much like Houston, Portland and maybe even Phoenix.

 

[StreetHawk]

The big question to me starts with will there ever be the political will to bring the NHL back? With both teams we're tied to the NBA counterpart. As soon as that ended, they we're no longer viablem

If ASG had no intentions on keeping the Trashers...and let's say that's true...

true bought the assets in 2005, wouldn't those close to the situation know back them they would have really needed their own/controlled venue to make it work. It's been over 7 years since the Trashers left and going back 13 years since ASG took over.

Has there ever been a peep for any business leaders and or politicians in support of a project to bring it back?

To me it starts there, otherwise the league is at the mercy of who owns the NBA team. Much like Houston, Portland and maybe even Phoenix.

Hawks control the arena. So, if they don’t own the next nhl team I highly doubt the NHL team survives on just the revenue from their home games.

With Dallas and Chicago who have different owners for the 2 teams, they negotiated a dea that allows the clubs to share the other non hockey and basketball revenue. You can only do that if both teams are playing at that arena from the beginning. Otherwise, no reason for the other team to share non sport revenue with the other club.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Hawks control the arena. So, if they don’t own the next nhl team I highly doubt the NHL team survives on just the revenue from their home games.

With Dallas and Chicago who have different owners for the 2 teams, they negotiated a dea that allows the clubs to share the other non hockey and basketball revenue. You can only do that if both teams are playing at that arena from the beginning. Otherwise, no reason for the other team to share non sport revenue with the other club.

Also in Dallas and Chicago, the owners are partners with their NBA counterparts in arena ownership. So they own the arena.

Well, technically operators and city owns the arena in Dallas.

 

[StreetHawk]

Also in Dallas and Chicago, the owners are partners with their NBA counterparts in arena ownership. So they own the arena.

Well, technically operators and city owns the arena in Dallas.

Yep, so in those cases both teams have skin in the game so to speak.

That’s what sports have become for the nhl and nba. The owner of the current team in the arena will not give up any of their share of arena revenues to another club. So, is being a tenant enough for an NHl team to survive just on their gate? Likely not.

So, you’re down to the will of the nba owner to decide if they want an NHL team.