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Why will this team not go all in?

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Because we have the best player in franchise history on our team right now and he's 24 years old. If we go "all-in" and lose, that means rebuilding or retooling during the bulk of Matthews' prime. This is hockey, not poker, and there is no combination of skaters that guarantees victory. We are significantly more likely to see success by stringing together good teams over a long stretch of years rather than one or two super teams.

And frankly, with how much people around here cry about the Foligno trade, I don't believe for a second that any one actually has the stomach to go all in. This thread might as well be titled, "Why haven't we won a cup yet?"
 
Dekes For Days said:
Of course he can. You saw it for years on your team.
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In the four years he's been on my team, I've seen some, but not a lot. But that has nothing to do with what I said.

The poster I replied to said he could "if the ingredients are right", which means "if he has the right linemates". As with all the posters who keep saying to put Marner on his wing, it shows that Marner, not JT, is the driver.
 
Considering age, there are only half dozen or so players on earth you’d considering trading Marner for, and one is linemate.

McDavid, Makar, Draisaitl, Kaprisov, Shesterkin…..
 
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Jamason said:
In the four years he's been on my team, I've seen some, but not a lot. But that has nothing to do with what I said. The poster I replied to said he could "if the ingredients are right", which means "if he has the right linemates". As with all the posters who keep saying to put Marner on his wing, it shows that Marner, not JT, is the driver.
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Tavares has done it a bunch in the 4 years he's been in Toronto, and he did it a ton through the 9 years he played on your team.
The poster you replied to didn't say "if he has the right linemates". You inserted that all on your own. He said "if the ingredients are right".
The poster you replied to also didn't say anything about putting Marner on Tavares' line.
You also seem to be making the incorrect assumption that two line-drivers can't be put on the same line.
Both Marner and Tavares are line drivers.
 
Dekes For Days said:
Tavares has done it a bunch in the 4 years he's been in Toronto, and he did it a ton through the 9 years he played on your team.
The poster you replied to didn't say "if he has the right linemates". You inserted that all on your own. He said "if the ingredients are right".
The poster you replied to also didn't say anything about putting Marner on Tavares' line.
You also seem to be making the incorrect assumption that two line-drivers can't be put on the same line.
Both Marner and Tavares are line drivers.
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I know that you are weirdly obsessed with the idea that I'm an Islanders fan and not a Leafs fan, and that you also have some bizarre idea that if you mention that falsehood you can automatically disprove anything I say, but you're wrong.

For starters, I hadn't pay any attention to the Islanders since the '80s, until Komarov went there. In case you don't know, that was after Tavares left.

Second, Toronto has always been "my team". There have been many other teams over the years that I have enjoyed as well, including the Islanders, Montreal, Detroit, Edmonton, and St Louis, but Leafs have always been my team.

You are right in saying 'The poster you replied to didn't say "if he has the right linemates". He said "if the ingredients are right".'

But I never claimed that he did. I said 'The poster I replied to said he could "if the ingredients are right", which means "if he has the right linemates".'

You are also right in saying 'The poster you replied to also didn't say anything about putting Marner on Tavares' line.'

But again, I never claimed that.
 
Jamason said:
Toronto has always been "my team".
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Posts are public.
Jamason said:
You are right in saying 'The poster you replied to didn't say "if he has the right linemates". He said "if the ingredients are right".' But I never claimed that he did. I said 'The poster I replied to said he could "if the ingredients are right", which means "if he has the right linemates".'You are also right in saying 'The poster you replied to also didn't say anything about putting Marner on Tavares' line.' But again, I never claimed that.
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Let's recap... The poster said "if the ingredients are right". You arbitrarily equated that to an entirely different statement of "if he has the right linemates". Then, despite that poster saying absolutely nothing about putting Marner on Tavares' line, you somehow argued against Tavares being a line driver by stating that some people want Marner on his line and Marner was a line driver so Tavares couldn't be, even though they've barely played on the same line, and two line drivers can be put on the same line anyway - which you seemingly acknowledge as accurate by quoting and saying nothing about the poster in question noting both Matthews and Marner (linemates) as line drivers.

Both Marner and Tavares are line drivers.
 
Nineteen67 said:
Considering age, there are only half dozen or so players on earth you’d considering trading Marner for, and one is linemate.

McDavid, Makar, Draisaitl, Kaprisov, Shesterkin…..
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Just the first two on that list for me.
 
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Dekes For Days said:
Posts are public.

Let's recap... The poster said "if the ingredients are right". You arbitrarily equated that to an entirely different statement of "if he has the right linemates". Then, despite that poster saying absolutely nothing about putting Marner on Tavares' line, you somehow argued against Tavares being a line driver by stating that some people want Marner on his line and Marner was a line driver so Tavares couldn't be, even though they've barely played on the same line, and two line drivers can be put on the same line anyway - which you seemingly acknowledge as accurate by quoting and saying nothing about the poster in question noting both Matthews and Marner (linemates) as line drivers.

Both Marner and Tavares are line drivers.
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What do you think he meant by "if the ingredients are right"? What 'ingredients'? The texture of the ice? The lighting? The number of fans? What he had for breakfast? I would think that the type and quality of his linemates would be one of the major factors.

I never suggested that he mentioned Marner, but just that the idea that his linemates are a major factor is supported by the number of posters who have argued that putting him with Marner will get him going again.

Again, I didn't say there couldn't be two drivers on a line (that's another thing you made up), just that if, as the other poster said, he needed the right ingredients to be a driver, maybe he isn't a real driver.
 
Jamason said:
What do you think he meant by "if the ingredients are right"?
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Could have meant any number of things. Health. Chemistry. Role. Play style. Etc. It could have even meant linemates, but that doesn't automatically mean only if a line driver is added. It could just mean giving him a style of player that fits him better.
Jamason said:
I never suggested that he mentioned Marner, but just that the idea that his linemates are a major factor is supported by the number of posters who have argued that putting him with Marner will get him going again.
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Tavares doesn't need to "get going". Tavares is still "going", and has been a driver. The idea of putting Marner with Tavares is centered around splitting up our 2 best players onto different lines and giving Tavares somebody who he fits with more stylistically. It is not giving Tavares somebody to drag him around, or drive his line because he is incapable. Both Marner and Tavares are line drivers.
 
Dekes For Days said:
Could have meant any number of things. Health. Chemistry. Role. Play style. Etc. It could have even meant linemates, but that doesn't automatically mean only if a line driver is added. It could just mean giving him a style of player that fits him better.

Tavares doesn't need to "get going". Tavares is still "going", and has been a driver. The idea of putting Marner with Tavares is centered around splitting up our 2 best players onto different lines and giving Tavares somebody who he fits with more stylistically. It is not giving Tavares somebody to drag him around, or drive his line because he is incapable. Both Marner and Tavares are line drivers.
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Well, I never suggested he needed to get going (that was other posters) and I have never suggested playing Marner with him.

Personally I think he can drive a line, but what he needs and a couple of slower, grinding wingers who fit his style. I would split JT and Nylander, give them each linemates more suited to them, and let them be 2A and 2B lines.
 
What stats do we have that best represent players driving lines?

What out duration of puck on their stick relative to zone, relative to points and relative to duration of puck on their stick. I imagine the best line drivers have the puck on their stick more often.. seems simple

And i can picture a crazy hotel party or something and a player on the back corner with his rolled up cash yelling "hey look at me i can drive a line"
 
Notsince67 said:
So Matthews drives the line and that means Marner can't drive a line. Got it. Why do you think everyone calls Marner the PP quarterback? Is that merely an honorary label?
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The PP is not really considered a line. It is a specialty unit.
As far as having 2 drivers……well that usually doesn’t work out so well But let’s pretend that sometimes Marner drives Matthews……….I’m betting having Matthews on your line makes you a better driver. Just for fun let’s switch Marner onto the 3rd line where Nylander spent extended time this year. I’m betting Nylander will drive the First line much better then he did the 3rd and Marner will not drive as well on the 3rd……..Hmmmmmm maybe it’s Matthews that stirs the drink

Dekes For Days said:
Imagine actually thinking that one of the best forwards and playmakers in the entire league can't "drive a line". SMH. :facepalm:
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Let’s imagine taking said playmaker and put him in a line that doesn’t have the best player in the world on it and see how he does
 
Funny that everyone thinks Tavares is bad, and he has a career year next to Marner, but now Marner can't drive a line.
 
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Racer88 said:
Let’s imagine taking said playmaker and put him in a line that doesn’t have the best player in the world on it and see how he does
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Or how about we take the best playmaker and put him with the best goal scorer in the league.
 
Racer88 said:
In theory that would be good but in reality during the playoffs not so much
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"Don't Put All your Eggs in One Basket"

This is a piece of advice which means that one should not concentrate all efforts and resources in one area, as one could lose everything, so to avoid risk all one has on the success or failure of just one thing.

When you pay 3 players $11 mil each in a Salary Cap world each one must be able to drive their own line. In order to prevent playoff failure Leafs need to spread the risk and actually have each player on their own line.,

XXXX --- Matthews ------ XXXX
XXXX --- Tavares -------- XXXX
XXXX --- XXXXXX --------- Marner

Risk/Reward Management 101 !!!
 
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Dekes For Days said:
In both theory and reality, it's been very good.
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We neither of these two awesome playmakers have carried the team to the next round…….isn’t that what 11 million dollar players get paid for

Mess said:
"Don't Put All your Eggs in One Basket"

This is a piece of advice which means that one should not concentrate all efforts and resources in one area, as one could lose everything, so to avoid risk all one has on the success or failure of just one thing.

When you pay 3 players $11 mil each in a Salary Cap world each one must be able to drive their own line. In order to prevent playoff failure Leafs need to spread the risk and actually have each player on their own line.,

XXXX --- Matthews ------ XXXX
XXXX --- Tavares -------- XXXX
XXXX --- XXXXXX --------- Marner

Risk/Reward Management 101 !!!
Click to expand...
This 100%. As some of us know the highest paid players on the team simple do not get it done in the playoffs. For their skill level and pay cheque they have been found wanting in the playoffs…….unless we are counting expected goals instead of real goals

notbias said:
Funny that everyone thinks Tavares is bad, and he has a career year next to Marner, but now Marner can't drive a line.
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im not sure but wasn’t that the year that Marner was playing for his new contract?
 
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