Why is there talk of Ken Holland leaving the Oilers after this season?

[Cursed Lemon]

Holland won in 2008 because he had a top-5 defenseman of all time and two of the best two-way forwards to ever play the game. He's in the finals now because he has a player that might actually go down as the 5th best player of all time, a player in the mix for 2nd-best in the league after that, and an all-star defenseman who he didn't even draft.

I'll give him Rafalski in 2008 and Ekholm now. The problem is that I can count all of his good FA signings with the wings from 2006 to 2019 on one hand.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Someone should post what the roster looked like when Holland took over, it’s enough to make your eyes bleed. He inherited a capped out team with almost nobody for 97 and 29 to play with, no depth and basically nothing in the pipeline. Then in back to back offseasons he lost two of his top 3 defenders due to circumstances outside of his control.

The argument that it’s entirely due to mcdavid and Draisaitl is ridiculous as well. Take the two best players off any team and they aren’t going deep in the playoffs. Take Barkov and Tkachuk off the Panthers and they aren’t a cup contender. Also, Mcdavid and Draisaitl were both 100 pt players before he got to town but the team had only made the playoffs once with them there previous to his arrival.

He was by no means perfect but results are what matters and they speak for themselves. Made the playoffs every year, two WCF appearances and a SCF appearance that’s still TBD.

 

[TheNumber4]

Holland has his fingerprints all over this Oilers team. He deserves credit for many impactful and good moves he's made to build this team. Also deserves blame for alot of crappy moves. On balance, I think he's done more good then bad and is effective in finding trades/signings for this team.

If the Oil win the Cup, I wouldn't mind extending him. The Oilers brain trust has improved alot under Jeff Jackson and Holland still has the connections. Combining the brains of Jackson with the connections of Holland would probably be the best path.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

It will be the downfall of the Oilers if they let him go.

That man needs to never pay for a drink at a bar in Edmonton ever again.

* if they win the cup this year and if he leaves before shitcanning all that good will like he did in Detroit.

 

[Satoru Gojo]

Holland has been been either really good or really bad for the Oilers

His good moves (Hyman, Ekholm, RNH Contract, Kane) were outstanding

However the bad moves are bad, looking at Campbell and Nurse

Won't really judge him on drafting until Holloway and Broberg get a full season of NHL time

People also have to recall the mess he inherited from Chia Pete

 

[Regal]

Everyone mentions Nurse and Campbell but the cap carryover for downtown Connor Brown is another tough pill. He’s not terrible but I’m not sure he’s been more than average at best.

 

[I am Bettman]

Having Mcdavid, Draisaitl, Hyman, Nuge, Ekholm, and Bouchard at around 40 million is incredible. I don’t understand how he hasn’t found a goalie or a solid group of d or a deep bottom six (though it is better). I understand maybe not solving all three of those with 40 mil, but not solving any of them is absolute insanity.

 

[Dread Clawz]

It works out pretty well for the Oilers imo. Holland hasn't been terrible there, but he's an antiquated GM that's lucky he hasn't been burned more in the last few years. If the Oilers don't win it this year, they need a GM that's more with the times to make the moves necessary to put them over the top. Seriously, with McDavid and Drai the Oilers should be clear favorites over the Panthers right now, but they're not. He hasn't added nearly enough around them. It's a very good team, but the 2 horses have had to have a near historic playoffs to get them here. If Zito had started with those two, he'd have 3 Cups already.

 

[TheNumber4]

Everyone mentions Nurse and Campbell but the cap carryover for downtown Connor Brown is another tough pill. He’s not terrible but I’m not sure he’s been more than average at best.

He had a terrible year. But he’s actually a good player. It took awhile for him to get his speed back after an injury rehab off season. He went on 3 game point streak against Dallas, helping us advance to the SCF. That probably makes half his contract worth it. If we sign him next year for league min considering his terrible regular season it could still be a win. The story of this signing is not over yet.

 

[Cup or Bust]

People can say what they want about Holland and I certainly don't agree with all his moves but the team was way worse when he took over compared to now. Since he took over not only has the roster turned over a lot, the teams play structure has improved immensely, they have had their best seasons since the 80's, and they have not only made the playoffs but have been winning rounds and gaining playoff experience to get to this point. He has also been able to achieve this in a mostly flat cap environment. He is almost 70 years old, a hockey Hall of Famer, he might win his 5th Stanley Cup, he has been part of management for Olympic and World Cup of Hockey wins. The other 31 GM's in the league could only dream to achieve what he has in his career.

 

[HolyGhost]

Sure he has not been the most perfect GM (extending Nurse for too much money, Campbell signing). But he has made the Hyman signing and Ekholm trade that has put the Oilers in position to win the Stanley Cup. Is it because Oilers CEO Jeff Jackson wants his own guy or has Ken Holland decided he want out of being a GM and retiring?

Contract is up and many call this drive a fluke. The new coach was not his hirer

 

[NotASheep]

It will be the downfall of the Oilers if they let him go.

That man needs to never pay for a drink at a bar in Edmonton ever again.

He has won nothing yet with the oilers

 

[La Bamba]

I won’t defend him much but overall he was a positive for the Oilers. They went from missing the playoffs in back to back years and broke on tradable assets to a Cup finalist with good depth.

 

[Hockeyholic]

They are winning because McDavid amd Draisaitl is the best 1-2 combo to bless an organization since Crosby/Malkin.

If the Oilers had a better general manager they would likely have another cup by now. If the Oilers win the cup I won't concede this opinion - I think Ken Holland is a C level manager.

Perfectly stated.

They aren't in the SCF because of Holland. They are there because of McDrai imo. Holland had nothing to do with either.

I won’t defend him much but overall he was a positive for the Oilers. They went from missing the playoffs in back to back years and broke on tradable assets to a Cup finalist with good depth.

He looks good by comparison to Chiarelli. But that's not saying much.

I think he has done more bad than good. And it says alot when you have the best players in the league and everyone is picking the other team to win.

 

[Hockeyholic]

It works out pretty well for the Oilers imo. Holland hasn't been terrible there, but he's an antiquated GM that's lucky he hasn't been burned more in the last few years. If the Oilers don't win it this year, they need a GM that's more with the times to make the moves necessary to put them over the top. Seriously, with McDavid and Drai the Oilers should be clear favorites over the Panthers right now, but they're not. He hasn't added nearly enough around them. It's a very good team, but the 2 horses have had to have a near historic playoffs to get them here. If Zito had started with those two, he'd have 3 Cups already.

This says it all

 

[GrumpyKoala]

They are winning because McDavid amd Draisaitl is the best 1-2 combo to bless an organization since Crosby/Malkin.

It's a better combo than Crosby Malkin ever was. Let go back in time a little more

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Having Mcdavid, Draisaitl, Hyman, Nuge, Ekholm, and Bouchard at around 40 million is incredible. I don’t understand how he hasn’t found a goalie or a solid group of d or a deep bottom six (though it is better). I understand maybe not solving all three of those with 40 mil, but not solving any of them is absolute insanity.

The Oilers bottom 6 was the second highest scoring behind only Boston last season and currently features a career top 6 guy who score 20+ this year while a guy who scored 20G and 40 pts is sitting in the press box. Their beastly PK is also made up pretty much exclusively of bottom 6ers… really terrible depth there.

The blue line isn’t their calling card but it certainly isn’t terrible either, they’ve got a solid group and even with the disastrous start they were in the upper half of the league in GA and near the top since Knoblauch arrived. I mean you don’t make it to the Stanley Cup final if you can’t defend.

The goaltending is the one area I will concede has been problematic. They took their swing with Jack Campbell and it was a huge miss so they’ve had to go with a 25 year old with a career .910 who was a Calder finalist last season, not ideal.

Have you actually watched the Oilers or did you just wake up from a coma and think it’s 2021?

 

[Pavel10]

Sure he has not been the most perfect GM (extending Nurse for too much money, Campbell signing). But he has made the Hyman signing and Ekholm trade that has put the Oilers in position to win the Stanley Cup. Is it because Oilers CEO Jeff Jackson wants his own guy or has Ken Holland decided he want out of being a GM and retiring?

Look at the trades Zito has made and what Holland was blessed with.
Holland was handed mcdavid and Draisaitl on amazing contracts. He had Bouchard nuge handed to him.

Hyman wanted to come here. Holland didn't beat 8 other GMs or something. Ironically if Holland was a good gm he would have done a sign and trade deal with dubas like dubas wanted for 8 years at a lower cap hit.

Every year he has some Zach Kassian disaster he needs to get out of.

He hasn't addressed the goaltending and rhd man for nurse.

Awful at writing contracts and drafting. There are errors of omission as well as errors of commission.

Basically this team was ready to be here with or without Holland.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Holland and the Oilers front office suck. They have managed to get carried by a generational talent despite making every wrong choice along the way

 

[Mr Positive]

Holland is old school but it has hurt us and helped us.

The same mentality that got us the Nurse contract got us Hyman. It's about looking past the nuances and investing in the right kind of person. Add Brown to that

Even with Campbell, the signing was not done with due diligence. Seems very based on eye test and a small sample of stats.

Ekholm was another interesting one too. Holland had a stylistic choice in mind. Ekholm was not even for sale. Holland was the one picking up the phone over and over to make him for sale. That year was all about Karlsson or Chychrun and there were some other names there. So just like Campbell and Hyman there was an element of being fixated on his guy and paying up to get him. Perhaps a modern GM is more flexible and looks for the bargains

There is something to be said for how Holland does things. If you can adapt to the flubs, and make it all about the wins, it's a great way to do it. Right now the flubs aren't costing us

 

[I am Bettman]

The Oilers bottom 6 was the second highest scoring behind only Boston last season and currently features a career top 6 guy who score 20+ this year while a guy who scored 20G and 40 pts is sitting in the press box. Their beastly PK is also made up pretty much exclusively of bottom 6ers… really terrible depth there.

The blue line isn’t their calling card but it certainly isn’t terrible either, they’ve got a solid group and even with the disastrous start they were in the upper half of the league in GA and near the top since Knoblauch arrived. I mean you don’t make it to the Stanley Cup final if you can’t defend.

The goaltending is the one area I will concede has been problematic. They took their swing with Jack Campbell and it was a huge miss so they’ve had to go with a 25 year old with a career .910 who was a Calder finalist last season, not ideal.

Have you actually watched the Oilers or did you just wake up from a coma and think it’s 2021?

Oilers defensman expected goal differential (playoffs):
Ceci: -9.1
Desharnais: -5.1
Kulak: -3.5
Nurse: -3.4
Broberg: -.8
Ekholm: 2.7
Bouchard: 25.4!
Edmonton is a plus 15 goal differential, so for most of their defenseman to be negative is impressive.
In terms of forwards:
Hyman: 22.2
Mcdavid:22.1
Draisaitl: 19.8
Nuge: 8.8
Perry: 3.4
Kane: 1
They have no other forwards that are positive in this stat. In fact, their bottom 8 forwards all have sub 50% expected goals percentage.
I watch Edmonton all the time, they are my second team after the Bruins. The bottom six is still an issue. There have been some improvements, but not nearly enough considering how long Holland has been at it.
Skinner has been lights out in the last few games, but he’s had many super shaky performances this playoffs. Maybe it’s because of the leaky Oilers defense.
Oilers bottom six points in playoffs:
Brown: 4 points 12 gp
Janmark: 4 in 18 gp
Henrique: 4 in 10
Foegle: 3 in 15
Perry: 1 in 13
Ryan: 1 in 14
McLeod: 1 in 17
Carrick: 1 in 9
Holloway has been playing with Drai and he only has 4 pts in 18 games!
That’s a combined 23 pts in 126 games!!!
That’s a 15 point pace over 82 gp.
8 of Edmonton’s forwards combined production is equal to one 4th liner’s production.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Holland is old school but it has hurt us and helped us.

The same mentality that got us the Nurse contract got us Hyman. It's about looking past the nuances and investing in the right kind of person. Add Brown to that

Even with Campbell, the signing was not done with due diligence. Seems very based on eye test and a small sample of stats.

Ekholm was another interesting one too. Holland had a stylistic choice in mind. Ekholm was not even for sale. Holland was the one picking up the phone over and over to make him for sale. That year was all about Karlsson or Chychrun and there were some other names there. So just like Campbell and Hyman there was an element of being fixated on his guy and paying up to get him. Perhaps a modern GM is more flexible and looks for the bargains

There is something to be said for how Holland does things. If you can adapt to the flubs, and make it all about the wins, it's a great way to do it. Right now the flubs aren't costing us

Nurse has cost them games. Skinner too.

I don't believe Holland drafted Skinner. But he never improved upon him or Koskinen.

Not saying he didn't try of course. But overall, I think Edmonton would be here with any GM sans maybe Chiarelli.

A team with McDrai shouldn't have 95% of experts picking Florida to win. That's Holland's doing.

 

[bucks_oil]

Someone should post what the roster looked like when Holland took over, it’s enough to make your eyes bleed. He inherited a capped out team with almost nobody for 97 and 29 to play with, no depth and basically nothing in the pipeline. Then in back to back offseasons he lost two of his top 3 defenders due to circumstances outside of his control.

At your request good sir... reposted from post #19 in this thread:

At forward: McD, Drai, Nuge, Chaisson, Kassian, Caggiula, Gagner, Lucic, Yamamoto, Reider, Khaira, Cave, Rattie, Spooner

On defence (editing out Klefbom, who retired with injury that summer): Nurse, Larsson, Russell, C. Jones, Benning, Gravel,

In goal: Koskinen, Stolarz

 

[PuckG]

Contract is up and many call this drive a fluke. The new coach was not his hirer

Who’s calling this drive a fluke?

I’m confused, are you suggesting the team that has lost to the cup champs the two previous seasons in a row, is top 5 in all even-strength stats, and has the best special teams in the league is on a fluke cup run?

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Contract is up and many call this drive a fluke. The new coach was not his hirer

“Many” aka just you