Snippit
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Why is Auston Matthews considered a top 10 player?
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BlueBaron
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I was mocking your self important tone not your content.
This is all very subjective so I am not interesting in arguing if Matthews is or is not a top 10 player. I personally am of the mind that these media rating he does get are more based on potential than deed and I think most people who do not have emotional reactions to it can see that.
Who cares if he is top 10 or not? Will he score fewer goals? Will our team win fewer games? He's a young player still making a name for himself and his achievements will come in time. I don't need everyone to agree that he is better than player X for me to enjoy him. I am unsure why it is so important to so many people to prove he is not better than player X.
I tend to compare him to his peers, he has a lot of stats that indicate he is a special player on the rise and everyone but the biggest haters see this. If it makes you feel better saying everyone on that list is better by all means do so.
Snippit
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I'm not blind - I see that Matthews is going to be the de facto 2nd best center in the league in a short few years.
But calling him a top 10 player in the world already is premature...period.
BlueBaron
Registered User
A decent argument exists for him being better than Tavares and Getzlaf since he entered the league. I wouldn't call those clear cut, a bunch of putting them ahead is based on prior reputation.
Here is how they rank against each other in multiple categories. Their quality of comp stats are practically equal. I avoided using all situations p/60 rates due to the fact Tavares and Getzlaf have played 130 PK minutes to Matthews almost non-existent ones
CF%: Tavares (52.2%), Matthews (51.21%), Getzlaf (49.96%)
CF Rel: Tavares (5.64%), Matthews (1.24%), Getzlaf (.91)
xGF%: Matthews (53.16%), Getzlaf (53.08%), Tavares (51.95%)
xGF% rel: Tavares (4.25%), Getzlaf (3.83%), Matthews (2.3)
5v5 P/60: Getzlaf (2.42), Matthews (2.31), Tavares (2.2)
5V5 P1/60: Matthews (2.05), Tavares (1.64), Getzlaf (1.63)
Total points: Tavares (114), Matthews (100), Getzlaf (.92)
PPG: Getzlaf (1.02), Tavares (.98), Matthews (.89)
Goals per game: Matthews (.51), Tavares (.42), Getzlaf (.19)
PP P/60: Matthews (6.26), Getzlaf (5.51), Tavares (4.77)
PP P1/60: Matthews (4.47), Getzlaf (3.9), Tavares (3.45)
Willy Styles
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That's fine, they are far better offensively. Two way does not mean defense only.
Snippit
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P/60 stats aren't the be all and end all though. It's not likely that a player would maintain a rate of scoring when given more minutes.
In terms of raw points Getzlaf and Tavares have outproduced Matthews significantly since he entered the league.
But you can also assume those guys would score less if they didn't play as much. I also wouldn't call it significantly. Especially in Tavares's case. And again, I used multiple different stats to illustrate the point. Even if you remove the P/60 quota, Matthews has more primary points per game than either in all situations and at 5v5.
Tavares has one more point at 5v5 despite playing 110 more minutes. I think it's reasonable to assume Matthews would get 1 point in 110 minutes. Tavares has one more PP point despite playing 100 more minutes. I feel in those 210 minutes, Matthews can make up the difference in total points or at least significantly close the gap.
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Huggy43
Registered User
Weak argument. Being a paid professional doesnt mean you're never wrong or smarter than others not in the business. Some HF posters are much better at the draft than some NHL GMs/Scouts are if you go through some old draft threads.
Willie D is a prime example
Snippit
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Good points - digging in deeper and playing around on Corsica does make it evident that the difference between the two isn't as great as the point difference would indicate.
But it also shouldn't be ignored that Tavares has better raw point per game totals - both this year and last.
This year especially Tavares has seemingly taken off. 37 primary points in 39 games to Matthews 25 in 30.
2.43 P1/60 to Matthews 2.40 P1/60 so far this year - even though he's played more games and more ice, he's been able to sustain a slight edge in rate production.
Just looking at raw P/60: 2.98 vs 2.8...again, playing more games and more ice time within each game.
I don't know what was going on with Tavares last year, but his play this season has been above Matthews.
To be honest, I would put Bergeron ahead of all of them, and he gets killed on them by point total measurements.
I don't think Tavares and Getzlaf are a tier above at this point. Matthews is in the grouping with them. I also never ignored he had more total points and a higher PPG. I put both in the original post.
Big difference between Tavares this year and last year is what is the difference between Patrick Kane's regular seasons and his Hart Trophy year. He has a 12% oiSH% at 5v5 and a 16.4% on the powerplay. Last year he was below average on the PP on the PP% (10.5%). Kane his Hart trophy year had a 20.4% oiSH on the Powerplay, and a 10.1% one at 5v5. Whatever causes that increased ability to convert is hard to directly point to. An argument could be made the player was in the zone all year and such, but for whatever reasons it never holds long-term which is why people think its partially luck based.
It's kind of amazing to me.
The guy is simply not that good yet but if you listened to Leafs fans/Media all day you'd literally go insane. They're that out to lunch with a lot of what's said.
He's a really good player with a bright future but nowhere near what the Leafs media tries to hype him up to be.
It's beneficial to all to just ignore the media circus associated with him and just enjoy watching him as the player he is instead. Makes watching Leafs games a lot more enjoyable.
The guy is simply not that good yet but if you listened to Leafs fans/Media all day you'd literally go insane. They're that out to lunch with a lot of what's said.
He's a really good player with a bright future but nowhere near what the Leafs media tries to hype him up to be.
It's beneficial to all to just ignore the media circus associated with him and just enjoy watching him as the player he is instead. Makes watching Leafs games a lot more enjoyable.
JetsHomer
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- Nov 29, 2011
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You know you don’t have to be from Toronto to work for TSN right? Or that once a reporter joins TSN they don’t have to forgo any past loyalties and swear undying love to Toronto.
Koonta
The Boss Wears White
Unless you work for TSN, you really have no idea if this is true or not. So you're just guessing when it comes right down to it. There could be some sort of brainwashing/lobotomies involved.
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Sidney the Kidney
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OP seems to have jinxed his boy McDavid. After OP makes a thread about Matthews, McDavid goes pointless for 3 games for the first time in his career.
bustamente
Fraud Supporter
Don't forget the guys at SN they know which side their bread is buttered on in terms of Auston Mathews, he will be a great player no doubt, is he top 10 right now? probably not but he is more than on his way if he continues playing the way he is.
I know , it’s totally insane ! This is what I can’t get my head around and this is why I argue to all ends of the night, they’re just so delusional. I know some fans will chalk it up to be just a select few but in reality it seems it’s more then 3/4 of them that have this crazy delusional way of thinking. I couldn’t imagine these boards if the Leafs ever win anything ....
TheNumber4
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He has injury issues and when healthy can barely crack top 20 in league scoring. Count me in as one of many who are confused as to why Matthews is considered top 10.
My guess, Leafs homerism, bias, and tears from losing the McDavid draft.
My guess, Leafs homerism, bias, and tears from losing the McDavid draft.
b in vancouver
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He isn't considered a top 10 player outside of die-hard Leaf fans. He's a very good young player that could be exceptionally good but this thread just seems like it's trolling. T.O. fans have a player that's probably in the top 30 and are understandably excited after so few over the past few decades. Give them the excitement.
Lowered Expectations
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Because Auston Matthews has generational fanbase.
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I cannot tell anyone until I reach the rank of mighty baron.I hate to burst your bubble psychic know all guy but typing a homonym is quite a common error. I never understood people who jump on typing and spelling errors to feel self important. I can spare the self esteem, pat yourself on the back all you want. ROFLBe sure and tell all your friends, you'll be a hero.
I think there should be separate lists, top ten players now and top ten players who could be top ten in a few years.
And sort of when entry level deals are over, (3 years or so) then they can go on the list.
You see people saying Matthews has yet to put up a 70 pt year when he finished one year.
SO you run into these problems...
I just find it Ironic that many Leaf Fans say "Watch the Game and see how he controls every shift"
When ya know, Leaf games typically are shown all over the place and most of us do that.
Yet when the stars of our teams are bashed by said Leaf Fans in the same conversation, they talk strictly about numbers and well dish out corsi that read on a forum with absolutely NO "Eye Test" going on.
I remember earlier this year when the Sabres played LA and this Leaf Fan said oka I'm really going to watch Eichel tonight.
He posted on the boards that he was a floater and was awful all around 5 shifts in. Eichel went on to be a star in the game and had a multi-point night.
I don't remember his user but SNippit was the guy who said
"Maybe you should of waited more then 5 shifts before writing this."
(I'm not trying to bring up Eichel on purpose just wanted to share this example)
It's not just a LEAF fan thing but a lot of fans will choose to believe there own opinion and will alter, shift things around to make it seem that way.
And sort of when entry level deals are over, (3 years or so) then they can go on the list.
You see people saying Matthews has yet to put up a 70 pt year when he finished one year.
SO you run into these problems...
I just find it Ironic that many Leaf Fans say "Watch the Game and see how he controls every shift"
When ya know, Leaf games typically are shown all over the place and most of us do that.
Yet when the stars of our teams are bashed by said Leaf Fans in the same conversation, they talk strictly about numbers and well dish out corsi that read on a forum with absolutely NO "Eye Test" going on.
I remember earlier this year when the Sabres played LA and this Leaf Fan said oka I'm really going to watch Eichel tonight.
He posted on the boards that he was a floater and was awful all around 5 shifts in. Eichel went on to be a star in the game and had a multi-point night.
I don't remember his user but SNippit was the guy who said
"Maybe you should of waited more then 5 shifts before writing this."
(I'm not trying to bring up Eichel on purpose just wanted to share this example)
It's not just a LEAF fan thing but a lot of fans will choose to believe there own opinion and will alter, shift things around to make it seem that way.
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