Why is Auston Matthews considered a top 10 player?

[BruinLVGA]

bit early for back-patting on that one.

The half season awards are mine.

 

[Halla]

this OP is getting roasted and deservedsly so.
seems like a big case of butthurt that the leafs >>> oilers this year

how hypocritical is it to allude to matthews not "earning" anything yet yet already throwing mcdavid first on his list

Calder, 40g season, leads NHL in ES goals, NHL record 1st game..pretty sure the kid has proven himself as an elite player

 

[BruinLVGA]

Didn't you also call for the Leafs to fall out of the playoffs in those same threads, which doesn't look likely at the moment.

I said there was a strong chance, if all things that aligned in 16-17 wouldnt align. It seems that they’re indeed not aligning.
The variable that put everything off forecast is that EVERY OTHER team in the Division is abysmal. Had only 1 out of these 5 teams been around a decent performance, I would also have been right on this.

Did you foresee these 5 teams being as bad as to be the bottom 5 teams in the conference too?

 

[93LEAFS]

You really don’t believe this, do you? If Orr and Gretzky were to play at their best during the same years, you would say that only one was generational? Lemieux and Gretzky did overlap. Only one was generational then?
I don’t agree with that. But I agree with the hardware thing. And Bergeron has the hardware for two way forwards. More than anyone not named Gainey.

If Gretzky and Orr overlapped they would both get awards to support their claim. Exactly what happened when Gretzky and Lemieux played or Ovi and Crosby.

Bergeron doesn't have one top 3 Hart finish. You can't break players down by play-type when it comes to generational. Do you seriously think that Bergeron 2-way ability makes him more valuable than Crosby? Crosby has the Harts and Pearsons/Lindsey's, Bergeron has Selke's.

You are either a generational player or you aren't. You don't break the player pool into multiple playtypes. Is Tie Domi or Bob Probert a generational fighter? is Langaway a generational stay at home defender?

There is no real case to call Bergeron generational without breaking down the player pool in an unnecessary manner.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

You really don’t believe this, do you? If Orr and Gretzky were to play at their best during the same years, you would say that only one was generational? Lemieux and Gretzky did overlap. Only one was generational then?
I don’t agree with that. But I agree with the hardware thing. And Bergeron has the hardware for two way forwards. More than anyone not named Gainey.

Using the term generational is just a bad idea. No one agree's on what's considered generational and until we can even agree on that every conversation about an entirely arbitrary metric is pointless.

 

[BruinLVGA]

No you're inferring that. I think using a criteria but omitting a player is questionable, even if he's the best at it. Either points are what matters most or you need to look at all aspects of play for each player.

What makes Matthews special is how good he is without the puck, he'd still be a good player if all he had was the offense but it's the full package he offers that's getting him the rave reviews.

I think that a generational, maybe even best all times in an important thing (like two way play) ought to have a bit more of leeway than the general populace gets. That’s my opinion. If yours is different, godspeed my son, but I disagree.

 

[93LEAFS]

I said there was a strong chance, if all things that aligned in 16-17 wouldnt align. It seems that they’re indeed not aligning.
The variable that put everything off forecast is that EVERY OTHER team in the Division is abysmal. Had only 1 out of these 5 teams been around a decent performance, I would also have been right on this.

Did you foresee these 5 teams being as bad as to be the bottom 5 teams in the conference too?

You are the one who said it. I said they are unlikely to regress, which appears to be the case right now.

And, you division argument is a bit of a joke. We would still be in place for an eastern conference Wild Card spot. We are on pace for more points than last year despite playing 60% of our games on the road to start the year and missing our best player for a quarter of the season.

I also expected them to finish top 3 in the division, due to its weakness.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

Who is Matthews better than in the group I mentioned? Because I'm really not seeing anyone there. Based on what is Matthews vs Eichel not debatable? Because you say so?

You're really supporting my thought that Matthews is insanely overrated. McDavid, Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Barkov and Backstrom are clearly better than Matthews. I'd take Getzlaf over Matthews because of track record and I also think Getzlaf is better defensively and offensively. Scheifele is better offensively than Matthews by a pretty healthy margin right now.

Go ahead and tell the NHL players, analysts and coaches that rate him that high and say their wrong lol

 

[BruinLVGA]

Neither of them are regressing, so you just sort of sound real dumb here.

What doesn’t sound dumb, but is indeed literally dumb is someone stating that a player with a lower ppg than the previous season is not regressing.
Like 0.75 ppg is higher than 0.79 ppg or something. It’s like saying 3 is bigger than 4. That’s what you are literally saying.

 

[Martin Skoula]

What doesn’t sound dumb, but is indeed literally dumb is someone stating that a player with a lower ppg than the previous season is not regressing.
Like 0.75 ppg is higher than 0.79 ppg or something. It’s like saying 3 is bigger than 4. That’s what you are literally saying.

Go look up what Nylander and Marner's PPG was at the same time last year. They both turned it on hard towards the end of the year (other than Marner's mono-plagued month+). They're ahead of where they were last year at this time.

 

[tucker3434]

Any other examples of a Leafs player they severely overrated?

I never said he was severely overrated, not even close to that. But do I really need to give examples of how Toronto is an echo chamber? Everything that happens there is either the best, or the worst, thing to ever happen to hockey.

 

[BruinLVGA]

If Gretzky and Orr overlapped they would both get awards to support their claim. Exactly what happened when Gretzky and Lemieux played or Ovi and Crosby.

Bergeron doesn't have one top 3 Hart finish. You can't break players down by play-type when it comes to generational. Do you seriously think that Bergeron 2-way ability makes him more valuable than Crosby? Crosby has the Harts and Pearsons/Lindsey's, Bergeron has Selke's.

You are either a generational player or you aren't. You don't break the player pool into multiple playtypes. Is Tie Domi or Bob Probert a generational fighter? is Langaway a generational stay at home defender?

There is no real case to call Bergeron generational without breaking down the player pool in an unnecessary manner.

Don’t put words in my mouths. Where exactly did I say that I think that Bergeron > Crosby? I thought you had more integrity than this.

I do believe that there can be more than one generational player and depending on what they do too: generational forward, generational power forward, generational two way forward, generational defenseman, generational goalie, etc etc.
You know, those that one looks back 40 years from now and says “gee, XYZ was the best at doing that. He was generational”.

For Bergeron specifically, there’s even the darn HARDWARE that they give out for that...

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

I think that a generational, maybe even best all times in an important thing (like two way play) ought to have a bit more of leeway than the general populace gets. That’s my opinion. If yours is different, godspeed my son, but I disagree.

Yeah I doubt we'll agree on this, it just looks like you're trying to find a clause to omit Bergeron since he plays for your team.

 

[93LEAFS]

Don’t put words in my mouths. Where exactly did I say that I think that Bergeron > Crosby? I thought you had more integrity than this.

I do believe that there can be more than one generational player and depending on what they do too: generational forward, generational power forward, generational two way forward, generational defenseman, generational goalie, etc etc.
You know, those that one looks back 40 years from bow and says “gee, XYZ was the best at doing that. He was generational”.

For Bergeron specifically, there’s even the darn HARDWARE that they give out for that...

I never put words in your mouth, hence why their is a question mark.

The game is too fluid the way it is play to call someone generational 2-way player, primarily based on defensive based awards. Crosby and Ovi are the only current players with any argument to go down as generational. I don't believe you break down players by position, let along play-type when it comes to that distinction.

Bergeron is a great player and HHOF, probably on his 1st ballot, but in no way was he generational.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Go look up what Nylander and Marner's PPG was at the same time last year. They both turned it on hard towards the end of the year (other than Marner's mono-plagued month+). They're ahead of where they were last year at this time.

I don’t give a hoot what their ppg was last year at this time. Last year is done, numbers are in the book, they cannot be changed. What they did last year, has no bearing on what they will do from now on. They’re hockey players, not the Old Faithful geyser that erupts every X minutes on the dot. And since math is not an opinion, if last year one had a 0.79 ppg and this year it’s LOWER, that means that up to now they’re regressing. This is not really debatable, is it? 3 is not more than 4, not even in Toronto.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

I never said he was severely overrated, not even close to that. But do I really need to give examples of how Toronto is an echo chamber? Everything that happens there is either the best, or the worst, thing to ever happen to hockey.

Has the media really pumped up a players tire in Toronto that much? One of the biggest criticism Leaf fans have is how there players are treated in the media.

I use gamecenter live since I live in BC and want to watch the Leafs, one of the nicest things about it is I can listen to the opposing teams broadcast. When I listen to other announcers talk about the Leafs they seem a lot more positive then when I listen to the Toronto feed. I think people mistake loud and overbearing with positive. Yes the Leafs are everywhere sometimes but not a lot of it is positive.

 

[CujosMask]

What doesn’t sound dumb, but is indeed literally dumb is someone stating that a player with a lower ppg than the previous season is not regressing.
Like 0.75 ppg is higher than 0.79 ppg or something. It’s like saying 3 is bigger than 4. That’s what you are literally saying.

Good lord. There's half a season left and both are about on the same pace from last year. I hope you're wearing a helmet while typing this nonsense.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Yeah I doubt we'll agree on this, it just looks like you're trying to find a clause to omit Bergeron since he plays for your team.

BS and you know it. I think Crosby is generational and if it needed be, that would be applied to him too.

 

[93LEAFS]

Go look up what Nylander and Marner's PPG was at the same time last year. They both turned it on hard towards the end of the year (other than Marner's mono-plagued month+). They're ahead of where they were last year at this time.

Marner's actually went down. Nylander's went up. Marner had 34 points after 40 games last year, Nylander had 28.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

I never put words in your mouth, hence why their is a question mark.

The game is too fluid the way it is play to call someone generational 2-way player, primarily based on defensive based awards. Crosby and Ovi are the only current players with any argument to go down as generational. I don't believe you break down players by position, let along play-type when it comes to that distinction.

Bergeron is a great player and HHOF, probably on his 1st ballot, but in no way was he generational.

I really hate how over the last decade people have been trying to shoe horn their favorite players into generational. It used to mean something now everyone tries to find a way why x player is generational.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Good lord. There's half a season left and both are about on the same pace from last year. I hope you're wearing a helmet while typing this nonsense.

LOL. I know. He seems convinced that the season is over at 40 games. No player is allowed to play out the full 82 games that we thought they would. The "facts" have been tallied at 40 games. They've all regressed.

 

[BruinLVGA]

I never put words in your mouth, hence why their is a question mark.

The game is too fluid the way it is play to call someone generational 2-way player, primarily based on defensive based awards. Crosby and Ovi are the only current players with any argument to go down as generational. I don't believe you break down players by position, let along play-type when it comes to that distinction.

Bergeron is a great player and HHOF, probably on his 1st ballot, but in no way was he generational.

The hardware he has and the numbers related to that say differently: generational two way forward. One more Selke and he will be the undisputed best of all times in that specialty.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

BS and you know it. I think Crosby is generational and if it needed be, that would be applied to him too.

It wouldn't apply to Crosby because he has the points as well. You're saying points are what matter expect one player. You don't think that's a strange position to have?

I think Bergeron is a good player but if you're going to bring up his play without the puck you have to do it for everyone.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Good lord. There's half a season left and both are about on the same pace from last year. I hope you're wearing a helmet while typing this nonsense.

What part of “till now” you don’t understand?

 

[karnige]

Good lord. There's half a season left and both are about on the same pace from last year. I hope you're wearing a helmet while typing this nonsense.

talk at the end of the season. pace means nothing and is a giant what if