Why does Hockey combine Goals and Assists together?

[7even]

But would still be ranked similar according to the Art Ross. Or looking at historical points total.

We have the Rocket to capture excellence in goal scoring. They're just counts, they don't mean anything.

There's nothing important you would miss by looking at historical goal and assist numbers instead of points. Since there is such an arbitrary number of ways a given player could be awarded the goal OR the assist on any given scoring play -- deflections from your team, deflections from their team, bounces, own goals -- calling them points is as much a convenience to approximate cumulative contributions over so many games as anything.

 

[SEALBound]

And I was just starting to think there weren't enough Crosby vs Ovechkin threads going right now.

Lol, I was just gonna say. This is an incognito "How do I convince everyone that Ovechkin is the best player of all time even though he isn't?" thread.

Next: "Should healthy players have a handicap on their point totals to make it more fair to those that were not healthy?"

 

[tenken00]

Why is it an issue? Points are not a definitive measure of anything other than who had most goals and assists combined. If you need to gauge players' performance or what they'd bring to a team, you'll consider other factors, too.

It's not an issue really. Just thought it kinda quirky but unnecessary. Kind of like having a DH and no DH in baseball, but at least I understood their $$ concerns that caused it.

 

[Krewe]

I know its a valid question, but why is it almost ALWAYS Ovechkin / caps fans posting this stuff?

 

[tenken00]

Lol, I was just gonna say. This is an incognito "How do I convince everyone that Ovechkin is the best player of all time even though he isn't?" thread.

Next: "Should healthy players have a handicap on their point totals to make it more fair to those that were not healthy?"

Lol. I admit that's where I started thinking about it. Not exactly Crosby per se, but the whole "Ovechkin only scores goals" thing is what got me thinking.

And I know I'm not going to convince anyone of anything because of some dumb OP. I was genuinely curious.

 

[Hynh]

But other sports you can tell who the best player is irregardless if they aren't top of every stat.

But if we can create a stat that usually reveals who the best player is, why not?

 

[7even]

I know its a valid question, but why is it almost ALWAYS Ovechkin / caps fans posting this stuff?

Because they're emotionally invested in the outcome, and you would be too.

 

[Dexter Colt]

It's not an issue really. Just thought it kinda quirky but unnecessary. Kind of like having a DH and no DH in baseball, but at least I understood their $$ concerns that caused it.

I agree with you. It's unnecessary when you think of it. I just take it as something that's always been so and acts as a measure of who's in on things offensively.

 

[Caps8112]

And I was just starting to think there weren't enough Crosby vs Ovechkin threads going right now.

It is kind of funny after all the years those two have played and all the other great players who have come into the league it still seems to always get back to these two

 

[GoldiFox]

Yes. And each score is one goal. With assists contributing.

Creating a goal through playmaking has been deemed as important as being the last person to touch the puck on a goal from a comparison standpoint. It is simply a metric to gauge offense.

If you want to know who the best goal scorer is you can sort by goals. If you want to know who the best playmaker is you can sort by assists. If you want a comparable basis to observe the total offense a player provides then you can use points. It's not rocket science.

If your issue is in a comparison to basketball then you are just comparing two vastly different sports. Points in basketball are always associated with one more-or-less normalized act of a player shooting. This isn't the case with hockey.

 

[Atas2000]

I wrote this earlier on the Caps board and genuinely would really like to know.

Forget about goals and assists being of equal value or primary and secondary assists or whatever.

Why even combine goals and assists together in the first place? It just seems so counterintuitive if you take a step back from it all. No other sport in the world does that.

I understand that "its always been done this way", but does it make sense? You can get up to 3 points off of just one score. Why not just give the goal scorer a goal, and the people who assisted an assist, and that's that? You know exactly what they did - simple.

Basketball stats go 20 pts 6 assists 10 rebounds 3 blocks. You dont add them all together.

And you dont begrudge Michael Jordan because he doesn't have Magic Johnson's assist totals because of it. Its just... different. Different stats.

Soccer you go 3 goals 1 assist. You dont combine them. If you do, goals are worth 2 points and assists are worth 1 ( like MLS tried to do a point system once but abandoned it ). No other soccer league has even thought of combining.

I'm not saying it's a bad system.. but like.. why even do it?

Why not? It's not like goals and assisst aren't separate stats that are followed too. And don't mix up different sports. In every sports it works differently. For hockey putting goals and assists together for a stat makes sense.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Because not every player has a 1:1 goal/assist ratio. Which means they play differently. But that still means they help the play in one form or another.

 

[Dicky113]

The real question you should be asking is why don’t other sports add individual stats into points.

imagine a basket player with a triple double scoring like 50 points in one game! The records that would fall!

That. Would. Be.
Awesome!!

 

[Imnotagoodposter]

OP’s post gave me a migraine

 

[OilCanada92]

I went through the entire first page before finally asking myself “why the hell am i still reading this?”

You couldn't have been that upset about wasting your time since you then followed it up by making this post.

 

[mr figgles]

I guess OP has never heard of TRB or passer rating.

Stats get combined all the time to compare players in other sports. In hockey, it was determined play makers were just as valuable as goal scorers, so the points stat reflects that. If you only care about goals, that stat is available on it's own as well.

 

[tenken00]

OP’s post gave me a migraine

Did it really? I think we are just so used to the notion of points being around that we dont even question it. It's not really in the end the best stat to determine who the best player is, or who is better than who. We just like to think so. For others, they just like having things wrapped up neatly in one box when everything in life is rarely that.

Its interesting to see what people think though.

 

[RandV]

But other sports you can tell who the best player is irregardless if they aren't top of every stat.

Every sport has it's own nuances, and in this case it's just a simple matter that G-A-P works well for ice hockey. Has to do with how important passing the puck around is plus low frequency of scoring, a combination you don't get in basketball/soccer/etc. You can find a "but other sports..." card to pull for most sports.

 

[Laveuglette]

Who cares, you have the goal and assist information. You can interpret points as you wish

 

[TheGhost]

assists are kind of rare, relatively, in soccer. Most goals are unassisted, its kind of subjective when a pass is deemed worthy of an assist in that it "Directly led to the scoring chance". In hockey, the goalie could have farted on the puck behind his own net and the forward picks it up and goes coast to coast for a goal and the goalie still gets the assist.

I have to admit, I had my beer come out my nose when I read this lol.

 

[txpd]

Of those 20 Points. How many were Free Throws? Dunks? Buckets? From 3-point land?

Why do they add up the buckets like that? What if a guy made 20 free throws? Or 7 three-pointers? There is clearly a difference in what they are.

Why not just have 3 single, 4 double, 3 triple, 6 assists, 10 rebounds, 3 blocks?

Points are points. They go on the scoreboard. Assists and rebounds don't. A goal goes on the board and an assist doesn't. You win with the bigger number on the scoreboard.

The question is simple. Last season there were 2 50 goal scorers and 32 50 assist scorers. Clearly one of those is harder to get than the other. Yet the 50 assists are worth the same as the 50 goals. Makes you wonder

 

[JerseyMike34]

Points are points. They go on the scoreboard. Assists and rebounds don't. A goal goes on the board and an assist doesn't. You win with the bigger number on the scoreboard.

The question is simple. Last season there were 2 50 goal scorers and 32 50 assist scorers. Clearly one of those is harder to get than the other. Yet the 50 assists are worth the same as the 50 goals. Makes you wonder

Points are points in the NBA.
Goals are goals in the NHL

They don't add up the Goals and Assists at the end of the game and thats how you win in the NHL
Same as they don't add up the Blocks and Rebounds to the Points in the NBA.

You are arguing the basic semantics of the sport. They are what they are because that's what they are.

Why is there 3 points in the NBA? Why is a dunk worth the same as an actual shot inside the arch? One if the thrown, one is placed into the basket.
It's that way because that's what the rules dictate. That's all there is too it.

 

[MasterDecoy]

I'm not sure what you're getting at tbh. Points are just a post hoc sum.



But that's exactly what they do. You cannot be awarded a point in absence of a goal or an assist. I'm confused, are you asking why goals and assists both have 1:1 point value ratios?

you just wanted to say post hoc didn’t you?

 

[Messrules11]

They add goals and assists together to call them points because that’s how we like it.

 

[Avelanche]

Points are points. They go on the scoreboard. Assists and rebounds don't. A goal goes on the board and an assist doesn't. You win with the bigger number on the scoreboard.

The question is simple. Last season there were 2 50 goal scorers and 32 50 assist scorers. Clearly one of those is harder to get than the other. Yet the 50 assists are worth the same as the 50 goals. Makes you wonder

Is the guy who scored 41 goals with 75 assists having a bigger offensive impact then the 51 goal scorer with 38 assists and hundreds more shot attempts even though he’s not a “50 goal scorer”? That’s the point of points.