Randell wouldn't have changed what happened. Neither would Thorty or Iggy. What we've been lacking in is the pack mentality. It doesn't matter who's on the ice, sticking up for a teammate should be an instinct. It's quite sad when Krug is the only one to really have that mentality. But it's early in the year. Hopefully Belesky, Backes and young hungry blood can bring that mentality back. Hopefully Czarnik is fine because I want him to get more time in the NHL.
Why did nobody respond to the hit by Adam Mair ---I mean, Radko Gudas?
- Thread starter Colt.45Orr
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There should have been some kind of response. It has nothing to do with the league or rules or whether fighting is on the wane, or whether it stops it from ever happening again. That's not the point. It's about the team, and knowing that your teammates have your back.
That's part of what made the 2011 Bruins what they were. The confidence and feeling of solidarity. These things matter.
Any number of guys on that team - some of whom weren't known as fighters - would respond when a teammate was targeted or cheap-shotted - Lucic, Thornton, McQuaid, Chara, Boychuk, Kelly, Ference, ... hell even Savard sometimes.
Miller should have responded if he had seen it. When you start putting your own concerns ahead of the team, then you don't have the team you need to win it all.
That's part of what made the 2011 Bruins what they were. The confidence and feeling of solidarity. These things matter.
Any number of guys on that team - some of whom weren't known as fighters - would respond when a teammate was targeted or cheap-shotted - Lucic, Thornton, McQuaid, Chara, Boychuk, Kelly, Ference, ... hell even Savard sometimes.
Miller should have responded if he had seen it. When you start putting your own concerns ahead of the team, then you don't have the team you need to win it all.
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Montecristo
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- Jul 29, 2012
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I honestly didnt think the hit was that bad. In slow motion it looked late but it was pretty soon after czarnik got rid of the puck. Yes he got him in the head and deserved a penalty but czarnik is like 5-8,he didn't hit him with the elbow, he just put a shoulder check on a short guy. Now it's a penalty but 10 years ago it wasn't. Tough hit, unfortunate hit, not sure gudas could have done much to avoid head contact once he commited to hitting him.
In short, I've seen way dirtier hits. This was eh, borderline. No need to fight someone over that
In short, I've seen way dirtier hits. This was eh, borderline. No need to fight someone over that
LouJersey
Registered User
I like your idea here but I doubt it would ever pass. And it's not that it would make me feel better to me it's just the right thing to do. The NHL punishes this type of "revenge" so lightly in game, plus it's the preseason. The Bruins players obviously saw it differently.
BklyNBruiN
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Oates2Neely
Registered User
Should've been a response. Bottom line. It's instinct. See the hit or not, you go in asking questions ready to drop gloves.
BruinDust
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- Aug 2, 2005
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I'm not sure if many of listen to Marek and Wyshenski's podcast, but anyhow they had on the guy a few weeks ago who directed the new film Ice Guardians which is a documentary about NHL Enforcers and they spoke to and interviewed a wide range of guys who did this job over the years.
He told this story which stuck out to me.
Basically without remembering all of the details, this particular enforcer was playing and his team was playing against Colorado probably 10-12 years ago.
One of the enforcer's teammates was running around, basically being a jacka$$, doing dirty stuff, cheap shots and the like.
Instead of Scott Parker, Colorado's enforcer at the time, going up to the dirty player and trying to scare him straight or fighting him, he went up to the enforcer being interviewed. Basically Parker said to the opposing enforcer "straighten your guy out, or YOU are going to be the one who pays the price".
Anyways the enforcer went back to his bench and told his teammate to cut the crap and stop the garbage. I can only assume it worked.
Where is this accountability today? Have any of the Flyer's players told Gudas to knock off the garbage and dirt? Clearly not considering he hit Vesey from behind a week ago. As long as teammates don't hold their own guys accountable within their own room, this type of garbage is going to continue.
Critisize Don Cherry all you want, but he was bang on when he said that neutering the enforcer with the instigator rule, and now their elimination by the increased speed of the game, has created a culture of zero accountability, and dangerous rats like Gudas are able to do what they do, partially because it seems like their own teammates don't even hold them accountable.
He told this story which stuck out to me.
Basically without remembering all of the details, this particular enforcer was playing and his team was playing against Colorado probably 10-12 years ago.
One of the enforcer's teammates was running around, basically being a jacka$$, doing dirty stuff, cheap shots and the like.
Instead of Scott Parker, Colorado's enforcer at the time, going up to the dirty player and trying to scare him straight or fighting him, he went up to the enforcer being interviewed. Basically Parker said to the opposing enforcer "straighten your guy out, or YOU are going to be the one who pays the price".
Anyways the enforcer went back to his bench and told his teammate to cut the crap and stop the garbage. I can only assume it worked.
Where is this accountability today? Have any of the Flyer's players told Gudas to knock off the garbage and dirt? Clearly not considering he hit Vesey from behind a week ago. As long as teammates don't hold their own guys accountable within their own room, this type of garbage is going to continue.
Critisize Don Cherry all you want, but he was bang on when he said that neutering the enforcer with the instigator rule, and now their elimination by the increased speed of the game, has created a culture of zero accountability, and dangerous rats like Gudas are able to do what they do, partially because it seems like their own teammates don't even hold them accountable.
BklyNBruiN
Registered User
Again, thank you bb_fan; this is exactly my point.
The response should of been "We will not put up with opposing players going head hunting against our teammates!"
TheReal13Linseman
Now accepting BitCoin
We've become a nation of pansies.
And this is the league that Awful Gary Bettman conceptualized. Pathetic. Unlike many of the older people here, who had engaged in several fistfights prior to graduating junior high, I'm quite sure that Bettman's experience attending PS-whatever in Queens was remarkably different from the average hockey player/hockey fan demographic.
The argument that you can eliminate fighting from what is the most directly physical and nasty of all the professional sports has been settled: It can't. Or, at least Bettman's approach has showed that he has horribly failed at doing it. The Vainglorious AGB has put the league in a failed interim position in which lone wolf superpredators roam the ice indiscriminately laying waste to the average citizen players while the police force comprised of players stand by handcuffed, unable to assist. Pathetic.
Dr Quincy
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- Jun 19, 2005
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How many of those guys you just listed were on the team when Savard got hit? How many responded?
BklyNBruiN
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Rite on.. I agree, Don Cherry is correct. Even Bobby Orr himself has said plenty of times that the game is just to fast. Regardless that hit last night was outright dirty, I hope the kid is okay.
- Jan 29, 2003
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Agree entirely with the above and the premise that someone should have takn Gudas on.
I know it's early, but the lack of response worries me.
Campbell, Thornton, MCQuaid, Looch all would have addressed it.
Baddkarma
El Guapo to most...
Great post about Bettman. Meanwhile the NHL and their contracted networks advertise "Wednesday Night Rivalries" where they show old clips of fights, monstrous hits, and angry players. All the while Bettman and his army lawyers and accountants are killing the league with rules and regulations. And after all, who could oppose safety right? Have the players ask that question in 15 years when the injuries are the same but revenue is down because now wants to watch SEL style hockey in NA.
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BklyNBruiN
Registered User
Don't miss understand me please, It's not that I want to see hockey games full of fist fights, I don't. Do I enjoy a scrap or two every now and than, sure I do. I just believe as a Bruins fan of over 30+ years that the Boston Bruins should never lose that comeradity that If you mess with one of us your messing with all of us.
I know Its about winning games and getting back to the playoffs that's what is most important, no doubt, but remember were a Hockey club with a rich history going back almost 100 years, were the Boston Bruins!
I'm pissed about that hit, it was dirty and could of done a lot of damage. Its wrong and we should never put up with crap like that.
I know Its about winning games and getting back to the playoffs that's what is most important, no doubt, but remember were a Hockey club with a rich history going back almost 100 years, were the Boston Bruins!
I'm pissed about that hit, it was dirty and could of done a lot of damage. Its wrong and we should never put up with crap like that.
2008 they still had the stain of Lewis on the roster - A mix of names on sweaters and a clear message to let the refs deal with it and focus on the puck and play...
As for this situation, I think a few things played into the reaction...
1. Gudas got called for 2
2. From the redline it probably looked borderline given he was shielded by he 2nd flyer.
3. They retained possession of the puck.
Given where the league is the only retribution we're going to see going forward is one of thee things.
1. A fight and then possible suspension and prolongated PK - gotta really pick spots there.
2. A pack mentality the next few ***** where the team puts other guys thru the boards
3. A PP that scores.
I'd like to see 2 & 3 by the B's with 1. when really called for (in this days NHL)...
What that NHL Governors office needs to do is enforce a team level penalty for suspensions / hits to the head. Make the teams match the player salary hit and IF there is a repeat offender still on the payroll who does it again, they lose picks. 1st offense, nothing, 2nd, a 3rd round pick, 3rd, a 2nd, 4th a 1st....
These guys are only employed because the risk / reward is still sloped in their favor.
As for this situation, I think a few things played into the reaction...
1. Gudas got called for 2
2. From the redline it probably looked borderline given he was shielded by he 2nd flyer.
3. They retained possession of the puck.
Given where the league is the only retribution we're going to see going forward is one of thee things.
1. A fight and then possible suspension and prolongated PK - gotta really pick spots there.
2. A pack mentality the next few ***** where the team puts other guys thru the boards
3. A PP that scores.
I'd like to see 2 & 3 by the B's with 1. when really called for (in this days NHL)...
What that NHL Governors office needs to do is enforce a team level penalty for suspensions / hits to the head. Make the teams match the player salary hit and IF there is a repeat offender still on the payroll who does it again, they lose picks. 1st offense, nothing, 2nd, a 3rd round pick, 3rd, a 2nd, 4th a 1st....
These guys are only employed because the risk / reward is still sloped in their favor.
Ice Nine
Registered User
Agree with Colt's original angry sentiment. I can't stand it when there's a dirty hit like that, and I don't see a response. And if it's not immediate, then within the next shift or two, if you need to get McQuaid or Randell or whoever on the ice.
Backes should be responding too, if he's a forward who we signed over Loui to bring more "jam" and "physicality". He should be getting in the mix too.
Jimmy Hayes is a lost cause. Probably too dumb to understand when he's supposed to respond. Needs someone to direct him.
This is what a team that sticks up for itself looks like:
Backes should be responding too, if he's a forward who we signed over Loui to bring more "jam" and "physicality". He should be getting in the mix too.
Jimmy Hayes is a lost cause. Probably too dumb to understand when he's supposed to respond. Needs someone to direct him.
This is what a team that sticks up for itself looks like:
Sometimes it's not even about fighting the guy after a bad hit, it's skating up to him and letting him know you've taken his number. Thorty did it all the time. You protect your teammates. And Czarnik who is a rookie, that's especially the time to stand up for your teammate. I can name a bunch of other teams who don't let that go. Philly last night was an example. Coots went right after Backes after his hit. He was protecting his teammate. That's what you're supposed to do.
Dr Quincy
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- Jun 19, 2005
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So how many less games are you predicting they win this season because they didn't respond?
Over the volcano
Registered User
Since you are so insistent on making this about wins and losses...
How many more do you figure they will win because they didn't respond?
Good to see
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After waiving his right to an in-person hearing, Radko Gudas will have a phone hearing about his late hit on Austin Czarnik over the weekend.
Gudas will see a suspension within five games to begin the regular season, certainly not the kind of start he nor the Flyers were looking for. Gudas signed a new deal worth $13.4M over the next four seasons this summer.
Source: NHL Department of Player Safety
Oct 9 - 3:47 PM
Over the volcano
Registered User
Though that offering an in-person hearing meant the NHL could go more than 5 games with a suspension...
My apologies for the previous post, it seemed to confuse the issue, perhaps this article will provide better information.
https://www.nhl.com/news/flyers-radko-gudas-to-have-player-safety-hearing/c-282513520?tid=277549076
Philadelphia Flyers defenseman Radko Gudas will have a telephone hearing with the NHL Department of Player Safety on Monday for interference on Boston Bruins forward Austin Czarnik on Saturday.
Gudas waived the right to an in-person hearing. Any suspension will not be limited to five games.
The incident occurred at 5:47 of the third period of the preseason game at TD Garden. Gudas received a minor penalty for boarding. Czarnik did not return to the game.
The Bruins defeated the Flyers 1-0 in overtime.
The following grounds are being considered for supplemental discipline: interference. However, the Department of Player Safety retains the right to make adjustments to the infraction upon review.
https://www.nhl.com/news/flyers-radko-gudas-to-have-player-safety-hearing/c-282513520?tid=277549076
Philadelphia Flyers defenseman Radko Gudas will have a telephone hearing with the NHL Department of Player Safety on Monday for interference on Boston Bruins forward Austin Czarnik on Saturday.
Gudas waived the right to an in-person hearing. Any suspension will not be limited to five games.
The incident occurred at 5:47 of the third period of the preseason game at TD Garden. Gudas received a minor penalty for boarding. Czarnik did not return to the game.
The Bruins defeated the Flyers 1-0 in overtime.
The following grounds are being considered for supplemental discipline: interference. However, the Department of Player Safety retains the right to make adjustments to the infraction upon review.
Over the volcano
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