Value of: Who on your team would you NOT trade for Bedard?

[Happyhary9]

The HfBoards fascination with the mystery box remains undefeated.

Bedard's value is definitely lower than a top 10 NHL player at the moment. He could be the next Alexandre Daigle just as much as he could be the next Connor McDavid. The risk of trading a top 10 player for a bust is an immediately fireable offense.

You have to weigh his potential with the chance he doesn't reach it. I think it's safe to say he'd be worth a young star player, ~70-80 point guy. However, he's not worth 100+ point players or franchise D's yet. Of course, people on these boards would trade anything because it's fun to play NHL 23 and pick the mystery box, but if we're talking logically, no GM is trading the top 10 players in the NHL.

The actual price for a #1 pick, even a highly coveted one is much lower than HfBoards pretends it is. I remember when Tavares was drafted, with all the hype of the young phenom who broke Gretzky's OHL scoring records - Burke said the ask from NYI at the time was Luke Schenn and their #7 overall pick in that draft - Burke said no.

Will people stop with the Tavares and Daigle comps. Both those guys were listed as potential generation talents when they were 15/16 year old, by the time their respective drafts year neither were considered close to generation type prospects. Stop believing media hyped up crap like Tavares breaking Gretzky's records. No real scout or any person with knowledge of hockey gave 2 craps about Tavares breaking Gretzky's OHL records. Tavares played 4 seasons in the OHL 15 through 18 yo. Gretzky's played one season as like a 16 year old.

Start comparing guys that have actually been labeled (by real scouts, not media hype) generational players in their draft years. Like Gretzky, Mario, Lindross, Crosby, and McDavid. Bedard has done things like those guys and has been labeled a generation talent like those guys, not Tavares or Daigle. Who cares what Burke said the asking was for Tavares (not a Bedard comp) if he was tellingthe truth. Look at a real trade for an actual generational talent like Lindross.

 

[Happyhary9]

That is simply untrue when you look at the ratio of generational talents that lived up to the billing (Everyone but Daigle) vs those who didn't (Daigle).

Also Daigle by most scouts was not labeled a generational prospect by the time the draft came around, more so as a 16 year old. Yes he scored a lot in the Q (which at the time was the no D league), never lead the league. He also was just okay at the WJC-20 leading in his draft season and there were a lot of questions regarding work ethic. He was still a very good prospect and had great natural skill, but he just never really had the desire to become great.

 

[TheBeard]

Lots of 'generational talents' didn't live up to the generational part.

With these proposals, anything under a consistent 100+ point player is a bust. That's how high the expectations are.

For example, Tavares put up similar numbers to Bedard, broke Gretzky's goal records in junior, exceptional player status - he was hyped as much, if not more, than Bedard. If Bedard has a Tavares career - he would be considered a failure with these proposals.

Sure, it's unlikely for him to be completely bust, but he can be an 80 point player and with these proposals that would be considered a bust.

Only Daigle. If you want to make an argument for JT then fine, but if the floor is a ppg player over 1000 games then it’s not the worst thing in the world. Also, I’d argue Bedard has considerably more hype than jT did at the time of the draft.

Also Daigle by most scouts was not labeled a generational prospect by the time the draft came around, more so as a 16 year old. Yes he scored a lot in the Q (which at the time was the no D league), never lead the league. He also was just okay at the WJC-20 leading in his draft season and there were a lot of questions regarding work ethic. He was still a very good prospect and had great natural skill, but he just never really had the desire to become great.

He was considered generational, but the hype definitely got boosted by his looks, his pedigree and his rebellious attitude.

 

[tTheVeganWoofMate]

I'm guessing he would be on the first plane out of Boston if Bedard is offered.

Pastrnak scores and does nothing else. He doesn't play defense. Isn't physical. Won't be battling in corners.

Perfect description.

Perfect description.

You forgot giveaway machine.

 

[Divine]

Will people stop with the Tavares and Daigle comps. Both those guys were listed as potential generation talents when they were 15/16 year old, by the time their respective drafts year neither were considered close to generation type prospects. Stop believing media hyped up crap like Tavares breaking Gretzky's records. No real scout or any person with knowledge of hockey gave 2 craps about Tavares breaking Gretzky's OHL records. Tavares played 4 seasons in the OHL 15 through 18 yo. Gretzky's played one season as like a 16 year old.

Start comparing guys that have actually been labeled (by real scouts, not media hype) generational players in their draft years. Like Gretzky, Mario, Lindross, Crosby, and McDavid. Bedard has done things like those guys and has been labeled a generation talent like those guys, not Tavares or Daigle. Who cares what Burke said the asking was for Tavares (not a Bedard comp) if he was tellingthe truth. Look at a real trade for an actual generational talent like Lindross.

You're getting too lost in the generational word. Bedard is only considered generational by the media then by your definition. Prior to this season, no one was using the generational tag with Bedard.

Bedard is the same size and put up as the same numbers as a 17 year old as Patrick Kane, Kane was on a much worse team and not considered generational.

If Bedard ends up with the same career as Patrick Kane, would you consider it a disappointment?

 

[Hockeyholic]

You're getting too lost in the generational word. Bedard is only considered generational by the media then by your definition. Prior to this season, no one was using the generational tag with Bedard.

Bedard is the same size and put up as the same numbers as a 17 year old as Patrick Kane, Kane was on a much worse team and not considered generational.

If Bedard ends up with the same career as Patrick Kane, would you consider it a disappointment?

Regular season wise? Yes. Assuming he gets as many regular season awards.

Postseason? No. Kane is a playoff beast. And clutch. He ended alot of series in OT. Or set up something magical.

If he isn't a McDavid/Crosby/ Ovechkin level player, I would like to see him be a Jagr or Malkin (Without injuries) type talent.

 

[TheBeard]

You're getting too lost in the generational word. Bedard is only considered generational by the media then by your definition. Prior to this season, no one was using the generational tag with Bedard.

Bedard is the same size and put up as the same numbers as a 17 year old as Patrick Kane, Kane was on a much worse team and not considered generational.

If Bedard ends up with the same career as Patrick Kane, would you consider it a disappointment?

An Introduction To Top Prospect Connor Bedard

Meet Connor Bedard, the next phenom. While Shane Wright dominates the NHL Draft talk these days, the top pick in 2023 deserves some love.

lastwordonsports.com

Connor Bedard: A Generational Talent - The Hockey Writers NHL Prospects Latest News, Analysis & More

A better scorer at the same age than Connor McDavid, John Tavares and Shane Wright: who is Connor Bedard, and how good is he going to become?

thehockeywriters.com

 

[Divine]

An Introduction To Top Prospect Connor Bedard

Meet Connor Bedard, the next phenom. While Shane Wright dominates the NHL Draft talk these days, the top pick in 2023 deserves some love.

lastwordonsports.com

Connor Bedard: A Generational Talent - The Hockey Writers NHL Prospects Latest News, Analysis & More

A better scorer at the same age than Connor McDavid, John Tavares and Shane Wright: who is Connor Bedard, and how good is he going to become?

thehockeywriters.com

Okay... and:

Shane Wright taking on 'generational' expectations as the NHL's top draft prospect

Is a player that projects in the Patrice Bergeron mold worthy of the No. 1 pick? Here's what analysts and Wright himself have to say about it.

www.espn.com

The next one? Shane Wright has the intangibles - and shot - of a generational star

Shane Wright's never accepted losing. Not even as a toddler."Shane has this other edge," his mother, Tanya, told theScore. "When he was young I had to discipline him for it. It was embarrassing. It would be like three-year-old 'sportball,' and he would be losing his mind at three-year-olds who...

www.thescore.com

Anyone can quote the media.

If you argument is only the media was calling these players generational, why are you quoting the media? The media loves throwing the word generational around for views and clicks. Tavares got the same attention by media, as did Wright, as did Daigle, as did even Eichel. Most of the players the media calls generational aren't actually.

Maybe Bedard can become like "the next one", Shane Wright?

 

[TheBeard]

Okay... and:

Shane Wright taking on 'generational' expectations as the NHL's top draft prospect

Is a player that projects in the Patrice Bergeron mold worthy of the No. 1 pick? Here's what analysts and Wright himself have to say about it.

www.espn.com

The next one? Shane Wright has the intangibles - and shot - of a generational star

Shane Wright's never accepted losing. Not even as a toddler."Shane has this other edge," his mother, Tanya, told theScore. "When he was young I had to discipline him for it. It was embarrassing. It would be like three-year-old 'sportball,' and he would be losing his mind at three-year-olds who...

www.thescore.com

Anyone can quote the media.

If you argument is only the media was calling these players generational, why are you quoting the media?

Maybe Bedard can become like "the next one", Shane Wright?

You literally said "prior to this season no one was using the generational tag on Bedard". I show you examples of you being wrong so you did what comes natural for many here and completely change the argument. The difference between Bedard and Wright is Bedard has been considered this kind of a prospect for years and maintained the elevated hype whereas Wright did not. At the time of the articles I posted, Wright was still seen as someone special.

 

[Divine]

You literally said "prior to this season no one was using the generational tag on Bedard". I show you examples of you being wrong so you did what comes natural for many here and completely change the argument. The difference between Bedard and Wright is Bedard has been considered this kind of a prospect for years and maintained the elevated hype whereas Wright did not. At the time of the articles I posted, Wright was still seen as someone special.

I think you need to read my posts in context to what I was quoting from you:

You: No one considered Tavares or Daigle generational except the media.

Me: By your definition, Bedard is only considered generational by the media then. No one prior to this season was labelling him as generational.

You: Quotes media.

Me: Quotes media doing the same thing for Wright!

You: You're completely changing the argument!

I'm confused. So do you count the players the media labels as generational or not? Show me the scouts that were calling him generational, or genuine prospect agencies.

If you argument is the media was calling him genernation prior to this season - I agree with you. Just like they were calling Matthews, Tavares, Wright, Eichel, etc. generational also.

I thought by you discrediting the media as a source, you would realize I was excluding the media by saying "by that definition", but I guess you didn't catch on.

 

[TheBeard]

I think you need to read my posts in context to what I was quoting from you:

You: No one considered Tavares or Daigle generational except the media.

Me: By your definition, excluding the media, no one considered Bedard generational prior to this season.

You: Quotes media.

I'm confused. So do you count the players the media labels as generational or not? Show me the scouts that were calling him generational, or genuine prospect agencies.

If you argument is the media was calling him genernation prior to this season - I agree with you. Just like they were calling Matthews, Tavares, Wright, Eichel, etc. generational also.

I thought by you discrediting the media as a source, you would realize I was excluding the media by saying "by that definition", but I guess you didn't catch on.

Who else is going to label these guys? Coaches? The players themselves?

Fact is, for the most part the generational tag has been fairly adept at accurately predicting who will thrive.

 

[Divine]

Who else is going to label these guys? Coaches? The players themselves?

Fact is, for the most part the generational tag has been fairly adept at accurately predicting who will thrive.

No, actual scouting agencies have called players generational. Both Crosby and McDavid were genuinely labelled generational by multiple scouting agencies.

No one did that for Bedard. He was not considered a generational prospect prior to this season by anyone other than the media.

He's undersized for the NHL, and put up the same number as Patrick Kane in junior this season - Patrick Kane was also never considered generational.

The media loves to use the word generational because it's exciting though. If you count players the media labelled as generational - most of them are not.

Players the media labelled generational that weren't:

Lindros
Wright
Tavares
Daigle
Eichel

 

[Happyhary9]

You're getting too lost in the generational word. Bedard is only considered generational by the media then by your definition. Prior to this season, no one was using the generational tag with Bedard.

Bedard is the same size and put up as the same numbers as a 17 year old as Patrick Kane, Kane was on a much worse team and not considered generational.

If Bedard ends up with the same career as Patrick Kane, would you consider it a disappointment?

One most legitimate scouts don't but the generational tag on a guy until their draft year. 2 you are absolutely wrong about it just starting this year it started the moment Bedard was given exemption status to the WHL, and then scored almost 2 ppg as a 15 year old. When I say real scout saying generational I actually mean scouts, not media guys like Cherry, Button, or McKenzie. Those guy need drama to get clicks and ratings. Here us a good article about Bedard. The writer actually interviewed legitimate scouts who have the background, not a media driven piece.

Bedard among all-time prospects heading into 2023 NHL Draft | NHL.com

Projected No. 1 pick 'has taken it to an extra level,' Central Scouting says; lottery set for Monday

www.nhl.com

As a Blackhawks fan and massive Kane fan, I think the floor in Kane, but as a center, so yes it would be a bit of a disappointment. As a prospect Bedard is basically Kane on steroids. Also no Kanes team was stacked from a scoring stand point, and the Hunters (HC) system didn't care about D at all. The London Knights top line was ridiculous. LW was S. Kostitsyn who was an overager as well (131 points), C was Sam Ganger who was a 6th overall pick (118p), RW was Kane (145p). Bedard (143p) the next closest scorer was Suzdalev (3rd round pick) at 86p. Bedard absolutely carried his team.

 

[MOGlLNY]

Dahlin

 

[5 Minute Major]

On the Sabres just Dahlin.

 

[Happyhary9]

No, actual scouting agencies have called players generational. Both Crosby and McDavid were genuinely labelled generational by multiple scouting agencies.

No one did that for Bedard. He was not considered a generational prospect prior to this season by anyone other than the media.

He's undersized for the NHL, and put up the same number as Patrick Kane in junior this season - Patrick Kane was also never considered generational.

The media loves to use the word generational because it's exciting though. If you count players the media labelled as generational - most of them are not.

Players the media labelled generational that weren't:

Lindros
Wright
Tavares
Daigle
Eichel

What scouting agency label players generational? There is like one agency ISS, which just gives ranks. Here is an article again with an ISS scout. You have to find articles that actually interview legitimate scouts.

Bedard among all-time prospects heading into 2023 NHL Draft | NHL.com

Projected No. 1 pick 'has taken it to an extra level,' Central Scouting says; lottery set for Monday

www.nhl.com

So that list.
Wright- was only labeled and talked about as a possible generational talent when he was given exemption status at 15.
Tavares- same as Wright.
Daigle- was a mixed bag some loved him (natural skill) others hated his work ethic.
Eichel- now this us a good one (similar to this year).McDavid was always considered the he generational prospect and hands down #1. But media love drama so when Eichel started out with big number in the NHL, here came the stories like is McDavid a lock for #1? Real scouts never ever considered him over McDavid. That story is kinda like this year. Bedard has been the generational prospect and the hands down #1 pick for ever, the AF starts tearing up college at UM. Same articles come out, is Bedard a lock at #1? What happened though this year well both players played on team Canada at WJC-20, Bedard was the hands down best player in I, while AF was a 3rd liner, end media driven debate.
Lindros- the only player on that list that was actually considered a generational prospect by real scouts. And frankly he was. He was a beast. He just refused to use his skill at times and just thought he could put his head down and run over people. His brain didn't last.

 

[Go Wings]

I would trade anyone on Detroit for Bedard. The only player that would be tough losing is Seider but I would still trade him to get Bedard.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Lots of 'generational talents' didn't live up to the generational part.

With these proposals, anything under a consistent 100+ point player is a bust. That's how high the expectations are.

For example, Tavares put up similar numbers to Bedard, broke Gretzky's goal records in junior, exceptional player status - he was hyped as much, if not more, than Bedard. If Bedard has a Tavares career - he would be considered a failure with these proposals.

Sure, it's unlikely for him to be completely bust, but he can be an 80 point player and with these proposals that would be considered a bust.

Literally not true at all.


And once again... Simply not true.

 

[CheerstoBeers]

I'm guessing he would be on the first plane out of Boston if Bedard is offered.

Pastrnak scores and does nothing else. He doesn't play defense. Isn't physical. Won't be battling in corners.

You don't trade a Rocket Richard winning 60 goal scoring Hart finalist for a guy who may never become just that. No guarantee Bedard becomes the player Pasta is, he's no sure thing, no first round draft pick is. Things can happen, circumstances can change. There has been a ton of hyped first round picks who have busted, you don't trade a superstar for a guy you hope will become a superstar.. I think the Bruins are happy in what they have in Pasta.

 

[BayStBullies]

Only McDavid. Every other player would be gone if offered in a 1 for 1. Many of you are forgetting it is a cap world.

 

[wetcoast]

The list should be very, very short given the cost control that Bedard provides and the huge benefit of having him on his ELC whereas any comparable player is going to come with a ten figure cap hit. For my team the only answer is Ovechkin but that’s more for sentimental reasons than who makes the team better.

Across the league McDavid is the only guy in the “definitely not” category for me. Guys in the “maybe” category are Draisatl, Makar, MacKinnon, and Pasta. Everyone else would be fair game.

Edit: couldn’t see Pittsburgh trading Crosby either.

Wrong answers here as this question is looking forward and both the Pens and Capitals would and should trade any of their stars straight up for Bedard.

As a Canucks fan no one would be untouchable 1-1 with Bedard coming back.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Wrong answers here as this question is looking forward and both the Pens and Capitals would and should trade any of their stars straight up for Bedard.

As a Canucks fan no one would be untouchable 1-1 with Bedard coming back.

The Caps are not going to watch Ovi (potentially) pass Gretzky in another jersey. Some decisions are not as straightforward as who will be the better player moving forward.

 

[TageGod]

Dahlin , Tuch, Thompson, Cozens. We have enough magic beans.

 

[Hockeyholic]

You don't trade a Rocket Richard winning 60 goal scoring Hart finalist for a guy who may never become just that. No guarantee Bedard becomes the player Pasta is, he's no sure thing, no first round draft pick is. Things can happen, circumstances can change. There has been a ton of hyped first round picks who have busted, you don't trade a superstar for a guy you hope will become a superstar.. I think the Bruins are happy in what they have in Pasta.

Do a poll on the Bruins board.

I guarantee you most would do the trade.

You never decline getting a generational prospect for a one dimensional winger.

 

[Johnnybegood13]

You're getting too lost in the generational word. Bedard is only considered generational by the media then by your definition. Prior to this season, no one was using the generational tag with Bedard.

Bedard is the same size and put up as the same numbers as a 17 year old as Patrick Kane, Kane was on a much worse team and not considered generational.

If Bedard ends up with the same career as Patrick Kane, would you consider it a disappointment?

Kane was 9 months older and 20lbs lighter in his draft year compared to Bedard, Bedard is built more like a Crosby and at 17 years old he still could gain height, He'll probably have more hits in his rookie season than Kane has had career.