ca5150
Registered User
And there are a **** ton of guys in the 55%+ range, I said he's OK, I didn't say he was bad, but he isn't considered a top faceoff center either.
Who is our 23 man roster on opening night?
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And there are a **** ton of guys in the 55%+ range, I said he's OK, I didn't say he was bad, but he isn't considered a top faceoff center either.
He's the best centerman in terms of FO % on the Jackets.
There's literally 12 centers with 400+ faceoffs at 55% or better. In the entire league.
No one's saying Letestu is elite in the dot, but he's the best the CBJ have and 53% is...wait for it...ABOVE AVERAGE.
ca5150
Registered User
Then why don't they put him out there for the important draws at the end of the game if he's so good? They always put Joey or Dubi on the draw. Oh wait, that's because he has next to no goal scoring prowess.
I like the guy, he's fine, but he's not a 4th line style player, he needs to play 3rd line minutes and 3rd line style of play. It's a detriment to what a 4th line is supposed to do to bury him on the 4th line, he can't shadow someone because he's not fast enough, he doesn't hit anyone because he's too small. He's just not a fit with the depth we have at center right now. I wish him well, hope he gets on a top team that makes the playoffs every year and gets a big payday.
58 goals in 316 NHL games (a goal every 5 or 6 games). That's not bad tbh, especially for the guy that leads all forwards in short handed TOI/g.
The best 4th line I've seen from this team is Calvert-Letestu-Morin, and Letestu can play up when needed, something we are all to familiar with. If we can get him at the right price, I'd love to see him back here.
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Well, there is some lunacy going on here.
http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?sea...status=&viewName=faceOffPercentage&sort=&ord=
Having said that this might be a career high for Letestu for FO's.
Letestu is that somewhat unappreciated utility player in baseball. Very valuable but not really good enough to be a starter. He can play in all situations and does it pretty well. Good two-way player that can provide some secondary scoring.
I'm not going back to figure out how all this started. Forwards are going to be disappearing from our roster to make room. I hope that Letestu isn't a casualty.
http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?sea...status=&viewName=faceOffPercentage&sort=&ord=
Having said that this might be a career high for Letestu for FO's.
Letestu is that somewhat unappreciated utility player in baseball. Very valuable but not really good enough to be a starter. He can play in all situations and does it pretty well. Good two-way player that can provide some secondary scoring.
I'm not going back to figure out how all this started. Forwards are going to be disappearing from our roster to make room. I hope that Letestu isn't a casualty.
Wtf does this even mean? 4th line style as in, we have Jared Boll and Corey Tropp on the 4th line, therefore we only trust them for 6 minutes a game? LOL.
If he's really a "3rd line center" (again, whatever the **** that means) how is it not a LUXURY to have him on the 4th line?
As for your dig at advanced rankings, they're a piece of the puzzle. No one is advocating that they be the ONLY stat taken into consideration. You know the only team listed in ESPN the Magazine's Analytics Issue as "all in?" The Chicago Blackhawks.
ca5150
Registered User
http://faceoffs.net/player/mark-letestu - never been below 50%. Career high of 55.4% in 2009-2011.
As for the 12 vs 14 above 55%, simple answer. I googled NHL faceoff stats and the first result was ESPN
http://espn.go.com/nhl/statistics/player/_/stat/faceoffs/sort/faceoffPercent/position/forwards
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ca5150
Registered User
the 4th line should be a line that's a pest, someone that can skate, hit, fight, irritate, shadow the other teams top lines and keep them off the board and frustrated. Like I said the ideal makeup of a 4th line would be Calvert, Dmac. Look at NYI's 4th line currently, that's the proper makeup of a 4th line.
You seem to keep wanting to go back to the "why can't we just put 4 scoring lines out?" Because that's not how you build a playoff winning hockey team. Like I said before, there's a reason why you don't have 10 wide receivers lined up with the QB in football. Not sure how else to explain it.
Letestu, Chaput and Karlsson are not 4th line guys. both are nice players, but we are very deep at center now, to the point we have Boone and Arty playing wing.
There's a reason our 4th line was crap the first half of the season and NO it wasn't just because of Boll.
Letestu, due mostly to injuries and being stuck with Boll/Tropp (i.e. limited ice time in those games), "only" has 580 faceoffs taken. Looks like nhl.com is only taking into account those above ~750 faceoffs (only 86 forwards show up on the results).
Center depth is imo the one thing working against Letestu. His center skill set is less valuable here as it will be on other teams simply because we have 5 other centers back next season barring a trade. Good point there, but that all can change with a trade or two, and we certainly could use a blueliner.
As for our 4th line. It was terrible this year because the "4th line players" were manning the top 3 lines due to injuries, leaving the 4th line skill positions to AHL'ers for half the season. Letestu and Calvert were the most effective 4th line pairing we had, and gave TR the option putting that unit on the ice for 10+ minutes a night for a change.
Tell me, who was the 4th line for the Kings last year?
Why have the Red Wings been successful for so long with no designated fighter/enforcer and so few fighting majors? How could they possibly have succeeded when, gasp, they stuck Johan Franzen and Dan Cleary on their 4th line for a little while?
ca5150
Registered User
That has everything to do with Calvert and not so much to do with anyone else, he brings chances and energy to every line he's on. He did a 6 game stretch earlier in the year with Letestu and Boll and they were incredibly effective, same with the recent stretch with Morin, it's Calvert that's driving that train. The problem being, they aren't acting like a 4th line with Letestu and Morin. To go deep in the playoffs, you need that pest line that beats on people and wears them down, every good team has it. Just my opinion, i'm not arguing with everyone all day about our opinion of what makes for the best 4th line. Most on here want scoring from the 4th line, I'm old school and want a grind line that can skate and chip in the occasional goal and keep the other team's top lines off the board.
ReggieRed
Good job. Good work. Good goal next!
ca5150
Registered User
When was the last time the Wings won the cup? Oh that's right, when they had "The Grind Line" The Wings are built to be a regular season team and get manhandled in the playoffs now. LA lead the NHL in hits last year, they aren't a soft team like Detroit, where are they at this year with the same lineup though?
We aren't on those teams level talent wise, yet. WE have to work with what we have, our identity isn't skill and speed like the Wings, our identity is grind it out hockey and beat on you. So we can't have the 4 scoring lines rolling, yet, and I hope we don't go that route, I don't think that leads to playoff success. maybe a couple years from now, our style will change when we get more danglers in. But right now, that's not our identity.
We are like the NYI, a banging team that wears you out. I expect the NYI to go far in the playoffs if they get solid goaltending.
ca5150
Registered User
The last time the Wings won the cup, 07/08, they had 21 fights that season.
Aaron Downey had 10 fights
Dallas Drake 5
Lilja 3
Franzen 1
Cleary 1
Kopecky 1
The Kings two cup winning teams 11/12 and 13/14, they had:
11/12 33 fights
13/14 27 fights
ca5150
Registered User
Here are more of the last cup winners and the amount of fights they had in the regular season, keep thinking rolling 4 scoring lines is the only way to win:
Chicago 12/13 16 fights
09/10 36 fights
Boston 10/11 71 fights
Pitt 08/09 39 fights
Ana 06/07 71 fights
I do think we need to maintain toughness, and though I'm a bit iffy about using fights as a proxy for toughness (I prefer hits), I think we can get a lot more fights and hits by committee. If Boller is doing 90% of your rough stuff you're not a very tough team, IMO. Our lineup is tough all the way through, there's no need to dwell on the makeup of a particular line, especially so given the obvious difference in effectiveness between a line with Boll on it and a line without him.
Sorry for bringing Boll back into this, but to my mind the discussion about the character of the 4th line largely hinges on one particular personnel decision - Boll, not Letestu.
Sorry for bringing Boll back into this, but to my mind the discussion about the character of the 4th line largely hinges on one particular personnel decision - Boll, not Letestu.
ca5150
Registered User
But the 4th line has been very effective at times with Boll on it in the past, earlier when Calvert was added to the line, they were our best line a couple games, Philly comes to mind. In past years when we had DMac with Boll, they were very effective. The problem is that Boll isn't going to carry the 4th line, he's a supporting player, you have to put the right type of players with him for him to be effective. We had that with DMac and Comeau, lost it with Chaput, Collins, etc.
We aren't buying him out, so why not find the right fit for the 4th line? I don't think he should play every single game, but I think if you put Calvert and someone in the mold of DMac with him, they would be a hard line to play against and Boll opens up the ice for the other 2, gives them space. I don't think Morin is the right fit for the 4th line, they have done well the last few games, but again, that's more because of Calvert, imo. Is Morin a better offensive player than Boll? Of course, but we need something different from the 4th line. Again, just my opinion. I have hope that Anderson might turn into that player and be ready to take over for Boll when his contract is up, and then we will have that effective banger that will fight and chip in offense.
ca5150
Registered User
I don't want to research it at work here, I waste enough time on here, but I would suspect that those teams also have a high hit count as well as fights, hits lead to fights. I know for one, LA, was a big hitter team when they were winning.
Yeah, gee, if we could not win a Cup for 8 years and go to the playoffs every year...
Boll isn't needed. Dubinsky will fight a few times, Foligno, Prout, Calvert, etc. A designated "fighter" is a complete waste of roster space.
SuperGenius
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I don't think the CBJ are good enough to ice just two forwards on a 4th line.
DMac and Letestu are more or less the same player. The entire CBJ roster is built with irritating skaters. Not sure I'm worried about any 3/4th designation.
SuperGenius
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You say Islanders but I think you mean Kings or St. Louis. I've never really felt the Islanders were anything more than a really fast, skilled team. Not a finesse team, but not a banging team like StL or LAK either.
CBJ aren't big enough (or skilled enough really) to be comparable to them yet, of course, but that's the style of play I see them being closer to than anyone else.
