Who is more dominant in their sport: Ohtani, McDavid or Mahomes?

[MCR74]

Did McDavid win the Hart last year? Did he win the Conn Smythe? Did he lead his team to the title? Mahomes is in a higher tier than McDavid.

Very.

 

[Dr John Carlson]

Did McDavid win the Hart last year? Did he win the Conn Smythe? Did he lead his team to the title? Mahomes is in a higher tier than McDavid.

You can judge guys based on their awards or based on their actual ability. I guess that's where we differ.

And to answer the bolded - he did, in fact.

 

[Dfence033]

You can judge guys based on their awards or based on their actual ability. I guess that's where we differ.

And to answer the bolded - he did, in fact.

Furthering the point that no single player can win a championship by themselves on a roster of 18 other players on their own team. I’ve always found the idea ridiculous that the only measure of a player for many is how many championship teams they played on.

Football has 22 “starters” per team.
Hockey has 19 per team.
Baseball has 9.
Basketball has 5.
Tennis and golf have 1.

Which sports are most likely to have the highest variance between individual player dominance and team championships? An individually dominant player can make it more likely their team wins a championship, but hardly guarantees it in a league of 30+ teams.

 

[Fatass]

Furthering the point that no single player can win a championship by themselves on a roster of 18 other players on their own team. I’ve always found the idea ridiculous that the only measure of a player for many is how many championship teams they played on.

Football has 22 “starters” per team.
Hockey has 19 per team.
Baseball has 9.
Basketball has 5.
Tennis and golf have 1.

Which sports are most likely to have the highest variance between individual player dominance and team championships? An individually dominant player can make it more likely their team wins a championship, but hardly guarantees it in a league of 30+ teams.

And yet the greatest of the greats lead their clubs to championships. Those that don’t, get ranked a tier lower. And talking to the greats that never won, they’d agree. The greatest are defined by championships.
Messier and six Cups or McDavid and lots of points? Oilers were (are) charmed to have both, but one was a winner. The other, not yet. So Messier is in that higher tier of the greats.

 

[Fledgemyhedge]

And yet the greatest of the greats lead their clubs to championships. Those that don’t, get ranked a tier lower. And talking to the greats that never won, they’d agree. The greatest are defined by championships.
Messier and six Cups or McDavid and lots of points? Oilers were (are) charmed to have both, but one was a winner. The other, not yet. So Messier is in that higher tier of the greats.

Yeah you might want to run that one by oilers fans I think you’d be surprised lol…..

 

[Dfence033]

And yet the greatest of the greats lead their clubs to championships. Those that don’t, get ranked a tier lower. And talking to the greats that never won, they’d agree. The greatest are defined by championships.
Messier and six Cups or McDavid and lots of points? Oilers were (are) charmed to have both, but one was a winner. The other, not yet. So Messier is in that higher tier of the greats.

This is exactly why I contest this idea. Messier had Hall-of-Famers Gretzky, Anderson, Coffey, Kurri, Fuhr, and Lowe off the top of my head on those Oilers teams. That’s an HoF player at every position on the same team.

As a Rangers fan, I also believe he is vastly over-attributed to them winning in 94. He had Gartner, Zubov, and Leetch as HoF in addition to his EDM buddies in Anderson, Tikkanen, Beukeboom, McTavish, Lowe, and I think I’m missing at least one more.

The goal is to win championships, but would anyone dare suggest Gretzky was not the best ever if he never won a Cup?

 

[John Mandalorian]

And yet the greatest of the greats lead their clubs to championships. Those that don’t, get ranked a tier lower. And talking to the greats that never won, they’d agree. The greatest are defined by championships.
Messier and six Cups or McDavid and lots of points? Oilers were (are) charmed to have both, but one was a winner. The other, not yet. So Messier is in that higher tier of the greats.

Yeah. This would be a more valid conversation if you substitute Sidney Crosby for CM. Sid scored a lot and contributed to winning also. It’s also kind of interesting that the 4 Cs who have reputations for 2 way play over the past 15 years have 7 rings combined. But by all means, let’s overlook Kopitar, Toews, Bergeron, and Barkov and focus on scoring as much as possible and ignore possible costs that come with that.

If you’re counting rings as a result of impacting winning and not merely stats, the gap between Mahomes and his contemporaries at the moment is pretty significant.

 

[DFF]

has any done what McDavid has done before? Yes, Gretzky, Lemieux and arguably a few more
Has anybody done what Mahomes has done before? Yes, Brady, Montana, Elway and arguably a few more
Has anybody done what Ohtani has done before? Nobody, none zilch….