Who is more dominant in their sport: Ohtani, McDavid or Mahomes?

[Cas]

But the question isn’t who is most valuable. It’s who is most dominant. They’re very different things. He’s probably the most valuable because of his two way ability, but he’s not dominating either the way McDavid is. That difference is why Hall and Matthews have a Hart trophy despite clearly not being the best player in the the league those years

"Most valuable" is how you measure dominance. Who has the biggest lead in value?

As for the Hart and other MVPs, the best player in the league is by definition the most valuable player in the league. It's silly to argue otherwise.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

I love ohtani but you can replace him with a top 5 hitter and a top 5 pitcher. You don't NEED that in one player and baseball doesn't have a cap anyways. McDavid is much harder to replace while Mahome just takes that to an even higher level due to being a QB.

There is some truth to this: if he was in the NL pre-DH his value would be unmatched, but as it stands there is limited extra value gained from having one player do both.

 

[MOGlLNY]

It's Ohtani

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I dunno man, I don't think it does. He's leading the league in home runs and has nearly 100 point OPS lead over Acuna and Freeman in 2nd and 3rd, 5th in OBP,

It's a versatility we haven't seen ever. Even Ruth never really did this, his peaks as a hitter and pitcher never lined up in the same way. Ruth pitched from age 19-24 and then abandoned pitching, and his age 23 (1918) season was the only year he was impressive on both sides of the ball. At 24 he had his big offensive breakout from 11 to 29 home runs, but that season he had declined a lot as a pitcher and was pretty much just league average and nothing special on the mound. Ohtani has been an ace and a franchise hitter at the same time for three years in a row, I know you're not trying to diminish it but I just wanted to point out that Ruth isn't even the precedent for this because he never did what Ohtani is doing right now as a two-way player.


I think it absolutely is in a sport with two defined offensive and defensive phases. Baseball is about scoring or preventing runs, and Ohtani this year is better than anyone in the world at scoring runs, and is also a frontline starter who's been a top 15 pitcher this year and was a legitimate ace last year throwing 100mph and being among the leaders in strikeouts. And meanwhile he's also leading in triples because he's crazy fast too. Being 95th percentile at basically everything is astonishingly impressive even if he's not 100th percentile at any one particular thing (although again, he is literally the single most productive hitter in baseball right now).

I fully agree that McDavid relative to other forwards or Mahomes relative to other QBs is a bigger gap than either side of Ohtani relative to competitors but I don't see why that matters. Ohtani doesn't need to be Barry Bonds crossed with Roger Clemens to be definitively more dominant than Gerrit Cole who doesn't hit or Ronald Acuna Jr. who doesn't pitch.

Yes, Ohtani is having a great season. But let's remember that last year Judge dominated the league in HR, hitting 16 more HR than 2nd place with an OPS nearly 100 pts higher than 2nd place. And Judge is out this year, so how would they stack up in a normal year?

And, again, Ruth played in an era ~50 years before the DH rule existed. So, in 1918, when he pitched 20 games and led the league in home runs, he also spent 600+ innings playing the field. The next year, it was 17 games pitching decently well with 950 innings playing the field and leading the league in almost every hitting category. Do you think playing the field when he wasn't pitching, instead of just sitting in the dugout waiting for his next AB, might have had an impact on his pitching abilities? And maybe that's why Ohtani is a DH, rather than actually playing a field position like Ruth did?

 

[DingerMcSlapshot]

Ohtani by a heap. When McD learns to the best Goalie in the league. It can be revised.

 

[Golden_Jet]

My point is McDavid is not a great goalscorer. He wont sniff Ovechkins career totals.

Your point is all over the map.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

I'll put it this way:

No one else can do what Ohtani can do. He's crazy gifted.
Other people can do with McDavid can do, albeit not quite as well.

I already conceded, in terms of uniqueness and rarity, it's him by a lot.

But it really comes down to impacting winning (goals, runs) relative to peers, which again, is closer than people are making it out to be

 

[koyvoo]

Bump

 

[Three On Zero]

Bump

It was silly in June and it’s just as silly now, no need for the bump

 

[Coffee]

Ohtani by a heap. When McD learns to the best Goalie in the league. It can be revised.

It's Ohtani

You were saying, bud?

 

[Run the Gauntlet]

It was silly in June and it’s just as silly now, no need for the bump

But bumping feels good.

 

[BKarchitect]

I mean at some point individual accomplishments have to matter. It’s why I don’t blame Ohtani for going to the Dodgers.

He’s the most unicorn of the trio but at this point, at age 28…Mahomes already has a case for #2 in his sport. I think McDavid does too as a talent but he needs to get some Cups to truly have the resume (and I think he will get them).

 

[SlafySZN]

Novak Djokovic.

 

[MOGlLNY]

You were saying, bud?

What?

 

[Coffee]

What?

I apologize for my immaturity, genuinely.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I know that rings aren't everything but when one guy has three of them in large part to him and the others have none, how is it not him. And this was the case when the poll was made and he had two.

 

[ijuka]

I know that rings aren't everything but when one guy has three of them in large part to him and the others have none, how is it not him. And this was the case when the poll was made and he had two.

He mind controlled them to miss extra point? Keep in mind he actually messed up in the superbowl.

But yeah, naturally, in football the quarterback can affect the play much more than a center can. In the first place, he plays the entire game, while McDavid plays maybe a third of it.

 

[Shark Finn]

 

[Bileur]

It’s still Ohtani.

Mahomes is great, probably 2nd greatest QB of all time. But it’s not a fair comparison because Mahomes isn’t also a dominant pass rusher.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

He mind controlled them to miss extra point? Keep in mind he actually messed up in the superbowl.

But yeah, naturally, in football the quarterback can affect the play much more than a center can. In the first place, he plays the entire game, while McDavid plays maybe a third of it.

The thing is in hockey we give centers and D advantages in all time lists. Why can't we do the same between sports? Everyone talks about Ohtani's impact playing two positions but it still doesn't compare to Mahomes's impact playing just the one.

 

[Midnight Judges]

It was silly in June and it’s just as silly now, no need for the bump

Eh, slightly less silly now.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Fair warning that regardless of who bumps what, if you use it as an opportunity to "dunk" on months'/years' old opinions of others, it is (generally) flaming.

 

[Regal]

I’ll say this, with Ohtani getting injured last year, only having 3 seasons of note in his career, once again unable to pitch this year, and turning 30 midway through this year, it’s pretty likely Mahomes and McDavid will be far higher up the all time lists in their sports. Ohtani’s first half of the season was more dominant than either of the other two, but we shouldn’t be basing this on a half season. And while his ability to hit and pitch at an all star level makes him a unicorn, his other MVP and runner up years weren’t more valuable overall than a number of good MVP seasons from players who play good defense at plus defensive positions. I still believe too much stock is put in Ohtani’s uniqueness. The idea that McDavid or Mahomes would have to excel at another position to bring equivalent value is asinine.

 

[Raspewtin]

still Ohtani imo

 

[LivingRentFree]

Why is McDavid on this list?
Mahomes has won 3 championships, in less time than McNugget has been in the league (who’s won nothing).