Who does LA pick #2

[KINGS17]

It was me that said he won’t be a franchise winger, but I never said he’d be poor. I think he will be Elite but not Franchise level, whereas that’s where Byfields ceiling is. In fact in 10 years when the redraft threads start appearing it will be no surprise if Byfield goes number 1 (I don’t dispute the current ranking).

In the history of the NHL it doesn't take long to call the roll of franchise wingers, because it is very difficult to dominate an NHL game from the wing. Centers, defensemen, and goaltenders are in a much better position to dominate an NHL game. Those with the greatest responsibility often have the opportunity to have the greatest impact.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

One thing about all the talk about all these prospects, not just the two we are debating, is that they DID produce and DID take their opportunities regardless of the various circumstances.

I keep reading a knock on Rossi that he produced on a stacked team against inferior opposition on a league that has devalued defensive structure. Well, guess what, it takes a talented player to be able to not just play well with other talented players, but to be the best of a talented bunch AND make the others even better.

Byfield didn't have anywhere near the same support, but he did produce and it was against the same poor defenses, which never really gets mentioned much. We do know that he looked a whole lot better on the rush when he dictated the play alone. Was that be because he didn't have similar talent to play with, was it because he had such amazing physical gifts that he could dominate 1 on 1 against poor defense, or does he have a limited ability to dominate in set situations?

Stützle DID produce well in a league with a low level of overall talent, but it was experienced opposition. Point is, these kids can only play against who is in front of them. They all did, and they all dominated in different aspects of the game. I am not concerned one bit about who they were playing against, they all passed the tests given.

Raymond is different, and while he is sublimely talented, I really do believe his lack of playing time as a reason to not consider him at #2. There is just too little reference material to be certain enough to pick him this early. His tourney play was very impressive, but not so to create a noticable gap between him and the other available options. At #5 or 6, sure. 2? No.

Yep, every one of those dudes excelled in what they were given and you'd be hard-pressed to ask for more, especially in their draft year. It only gets tough when you're trying to contextualize across years and leagues, but as far as this year and this team, they were the clear best players on the ice night after night after night.

 

[Sol]

I think both guys are exhibiting products of their league to some degree, though, and taking what they're given. Byfield's team has next to no zone presence so a lot of his points are scored in transition but do you really think that guy wouldn't be successful on the 2015-Kings styled teams? Same with Stutzle--I can't imagine that guy not being a monster on the rush but he's taking the open ice opponents are giving him and doing wheelies in the zone because he can. They'll both adapt, they're too good not to, and I can't really hold their leagues against them from a stylistic standpoint.





I mentioned this in other places too but the other thing with that list is a lot of the guys had a 'partner' or more, Byfield is the only solo artist completely blowing it away, as opposed to, say, Tkachuk-Marner-Dvorak playing together and the crazy good Erie teams.

I think the video posted of him stopping on a dime and then accelerating is for sure impressive for his height but I've barely seen that in his break downs of him doing that. Most of all I've seen of Byfield is that he's got good puck protection abilities cause of his size and I've seen a lot of straight line skating from him. Stutzle is undoubtedly more agile than him which is a huge plus. The only thing Byfield has over Stuzle is his shot and size. And what Stuzle has over Byfield is better playmaking and skating.

All in all, my opinion I might be wrong. But I think some are sleeping on the Stutzle option.

 

[cyclones22]

I think the video posted of him stopping on a dime and then accelerating is for sure impressive for his height but I've barely seen that in his break downs of him doing that. Most of all I've seen of Byfield is that he's got good puck protection abilities cause of his size and I've seen a lot of straight line skating from him. Stutzle is undoubtedly more agile than him which is a huge plus. The only thing Byfield has over Stuzle is his shot and size. And what Stuzle has over Byfield is better playmaking and skating.

All in all, my opinion I might be wrong. But I think some are sleeping on the Stutzle option.

Well, one thing is for sure and Blake has mentioned this already, that because of the delay in everything they can watch every single game Byfield and Stutzle and potentially others have played in last season. All we're seeing for the most part are highlight videos that have been regurgitated. Although we enjoy and appreciate these video scouting reports, I doubt these folks have watched and broken down video of much more than a handful of games for each prospect. The Kings staff are going to be watching every shift, so I'm pretty comfortable in the notion that they'll have much more information and opportunity for evaluation than we're getting from the YouTube scouts. Don't get me wrong, I love those guys and what they do for essentially free, but they're not working with a full deck of cards like pro scouts are. Regardless, I trust Yannetti and company on whoever their selection is. I hope it's Byfield. Hell, I hope the season gets cancelled so we can have the draft sooner.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

 

[SFKingshomer]

I'm confident they're doing they're homework and we will get a good player. I'd be ok with whoever they pick.

 

[Rorschach]

I'm confident they're doing they're homework and we will get a good player. I'd be ok with whoever they pick.

And again, we can thank Dean Lombardi for implementing this front office work ethic into the Kings organization.

 

[crassbonanza]

In the history of the NHL it doesn't take long to call the roll of franchise wingers, because it is very difficult to dominate an NHL game from the wing. Centers, defensemen, and goaltenders are in a much better position to dominate an NHL game. Those with the greatest responsibility often have the opportunity to have the greatest impact.

Stutzle actually is a center, but he moved to wing this season when joining the DEL since it is a professional league. Had he been in a development league he would have still been at center, like when he played at the WJC. I think people believe Stutzle is a winger because he made that switch this season, but again I think that has more to do with circumstances. Kind of similar to how Byfield played wing at the WJC, just because he made that switch doesn't make him a winger.

 

[BigKing]

Stutzle actually is a center, but he moved to wing this season when joining the DEL since it is a professional league. Had he been in a development league he would have still been at center, like when he played at the WJC. I think people believe Stutzle is a winger because he made that switch this season, but again I think that has more to do with circumstances. Kind of similar to how Byfield played wing at the WJC, just because he made that switch doesn't make him a winger.

I though Stutzle played some wing at the WJC as well.

I'm not concerned about Stutzle's size as it should be average once he matures. If you are taking him at 2, you are probably leaning center but the Kings are a special case since they have several centers in the pipeline so someone is moving to wing. If the Kings took him, they might prefer that he run wing next to a more 200 foot center like Turcotte.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Would be nice if the Kings provided content like this.

 

[Sol]

Well, one thing is for sure and Blake has mentioned this already, that because of the delay in everything they can watch every single game Byfield and Stutzle and potentially others have played in last season. All we're seeing for the most part are highlight videos that have been regurgitated. Although we enjoy and appreciate these video scouting reports, I doubt these folks have watched and broken down video of much more than a handful of games for each prospect. The Kings staff are going to be watching every shift, so I'm pretty comfortable in the notion that they'll have much more information and opportunity for evaluation than we're getting from the YouTube scouts. Don't get me wrong, I love those guys and what they do for essentially free, but they're not working with a full deck of cards like pro scouts are. Regardless, I trust Yannetti and company on whoever their selection is. I hope it's Byfield. Hell, I hope the season gets cancelled so we can have the draft sooner.

For sure. I've just been paying a close attention to a lot of videos about the two since I'm very interested in this years draft as you can imagine lol.

There is a lot of great content and I personally don't think there's a "better" option as of right now in number 2. I'm just curious to see what kind of player the Kings are looking for. Knowing the Kings it's going to be the Byfield archetype. Great player but I'd rather have someone dynamic on the ice which I think stutzle is.

I hear and read a lot about "ceilings" for players which I think are usually irrelevant since they are usually pretty off. People say Byfield has a higher ceiling than stutzle but that means nothing to me to be honest. I've seen the Kings go for "ceiling" players who weren't too impressive at the time and nothing came of it.

 

[Sol]

Stutzle actually is a center, but he moved to wing this season when joining the DEL since it is a professional league. Had he been in a development league he would have still been at center, like when he played at the WJC. I think people believe Stutzle is a winger because he made that switch this season, but again I think that has more to do with circumstances. Kind of similar to how Byfield played wing at the WJC, just because he made that switch doesn't make him a winger.

Well Stutzle plays like a center in a way. He's always backchecking hard and has a great work ethic.

 

[Sol]

Would be nice if the Kings provided content like this.

Knowing the Kings they will find a dumb f***ing way to incorporate the Kings dogs into the draft breakdown.

 

[BigKing]

For sure. I've just been paying a close attention to a lot of videos about the two since I'm very interested in this years draft as you can imagine lol.

There is a lot of great content and I personally don't think there's a "better" option as of right now in number 2. I'm just curious to see what kind of player the Kings are looking for. Knowing the Kings it's going to be the Byfield archetype. Great player but I'd rather have someone dynamic on the ice which I think stutzle is.

I hear and read a lot about "ceilings" for players which I think are usually irrelevant since they are usually pretty off. People say Byfield has a higher ceiling than stutzle but that means nothing to me to be honest. I've seen the Kings go for "ceiling" players who weren't too impressive at the time and nothing came of it.

RE: the bolded...I think you'll find that the majority of the Byfield contingent feel that he is a dynamic player.

This play is pretty ridiculous for any sized player but insane for a 6'4" 16 year old in the OHL playoffs:

 

[KINGS17]

I though Stutzle played some wing at the WJC as well.

I'm not concerned about Stutzle's size as it should be average once he matures. If you are taking him at 2, you are probably leaning center but the Kings are a special case since they have several centers in the pipeline so someone is moving to wing. If the Kings took him, they might prefer that he run wing next to a more 200 foot center like Turcotte.

Based on what we saw from Vilardi and Turcotte last season, and I will admit it is way too early to make a final assessment, especially in Turcotte's case, I don't think the Kings have their 1C of the future in the pipeline yet. Whichever player the Kings take at #2OA better be able to fill the 1C slot.

I think the player with the requisite ceiling to fill that role is Byfield.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

RE: the bolded...I think you'll find that the majority of the Byfield contingent feel that he is a dynamic player.

This play is pretty ridiculous for any sized player but insane for a 6'4" 16 year old in the OHL playoffs:

Exactly.

A lot of the talking points are just ignoring how dynamic and fast and skilled Byfield is as a player...period. Not just for a player his size. That's why all the stuff about his size, ceiling, etc...they make him sound like a project when he's already phenomenal. All people are saying is if he REALLY takes off he's absolutely unstoppable.

And also to be fair the same applies to Stutzle. I think he currently gets pushed off the puck too easily but that comes with man strength, he's too good of a skater and of decent size to not end up extra strong, I think of Pettersson pre draft looking like bambi and good luck moving him now.

I'm still as grumpy as I am a month ago about these criticisms because it seems like a lot of people in favor of Stutzle are picking for perceived need instead of bpa. I don't think you can go wrong but picking flash for flash's sake is foolish and you end up being the type to complain about how boring Anze Kopitar is for two decades without realizing effective doesn't necessarily equal entertaining.

 

[cyclones22]

Exactly.

A lot of the talking points are just ignoring how dynamic and fast and skilled Byfield is as a player...period. Not just for a player his size. That's why all the stuff about his size, ceiling, etc...they make him sound like a project when he's already phenomenal. All people are saying is if he REALLY takes off he's absolutely unstoppable.

And also to be fair the same applies to Stutzle. I think he currently gets pushed off the puck too easily but that comes with man strength, he's too good of a skater and of decent size to not end up extra strong, I think of Pettersson pre draft looking like bambi and good luck moving him now.

I'm still as grumpy as I am a month ago about these criticisms because it seems like a lot of people in favor of Stutzle are picking for perceived need instead of bpa. I don't think you can go wrong but picking flash for flash's sake is foolish and you end up being the type to complain about how boring Anze Kopitar is for two decades without realizing effective doesn't necessarily equal entertaining.

I'd feel a lot better about Stutzle if I saw some snipes from him. At #2 overall, this player needs to be a top 3 player on the team bare minimum in a couple of seasons. If the Kings select Stutzle then I'm sure they project that he'll be a 20+ goal a season scorer or that they can develop him into one. He would have to be to merit the selection.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

Stützle is intriguing with his moves and playmaking skills but you are just forced to draft Byfield who is a good playmaker, fast, clear center and goalscorer. He runs a powerplay with relative ease and can really shoot the puck, slapshot too.

If you want to look for weaknesses than you perhaps talk about his hockey sense, north south game and so.

With Stützle you talk about his shot, descent (DEL). If he is the next Patrick Kane, sure, I am in but Kane is and already was a filthy scorer. I am not the biggest Barzal fan either. Too bad he wasnt playing in juniors because it is not simple to score goals as 18 year old in a professional league. This thing could be massively overblown.

 

[KINGS17]

Stützle is intriguing with his moves and playmaking skills but you are just forced to draft Byfield who is a good playmaker, fast, clear center and goalscorer. He runs a powerplay with relative ease and can really shoot the puck, slapshot too.

If you want to look for weaknesses than you perhaps talk about his hockey sense, north south game and so.

With Stützle you talk about his shot, descent (DEL). If he is the next Patrick Kane, sure, I am in but Kane is and already was a filthy scorer. I am not the biggest Barzal fan either. Too bad he wasnt playing in juniors because it is not simple to score goals as 18 year old in a professional league. This thing could be massively overblown.

I agree, due to the difference in goal scoring ability, I don't see Stutzle as comparable to Kane.

 

[ricardfromage]

I am stupefied by the amount of support of QB. Having seen him play in person a few times this year and watched adv sc isolated vids of him I think that there is a possibility that he becomes a solid top 6 player but there is also a possibility that he could bust as well. If he grows two more inches witch is very possible based on his past 4 years of growth spurts he would be the only 6'6" forward in NHL history to be a first line center with any actual value. He could stop growing or maybe only grow 1" over the next 4 years and that would cause a ton of concern for his ability to be a highly effective foward. IF we were drafting 4th of 5st I could see taking a flier on him but at 2nd there are 3 truly elite level forwards available who are very likely to become highly effective at their positions.

I believe we should be discussing which of Stutzle, a player that the team is very familiar with and has been following closely for the past two years or Lucas Raymond, a player with explosive skating hands and gifted vision (he also plays a dead solid two way game) and finally Marco Rossi who in comparison to QB has outperformed his rivals in each of the past 3 seasons in both offensive and defensive metrics. Any of those 3 players would give us a ton of needed certainty of drafting a 1st line player with the number two pick. Of course anything can happen with anyone and QB could and should develop into a solid top 6 player but he is a bigger gamble than the other 3 so why make him our target. Take a long look at his metrics and not simply his highlight reals and you will see a big guy with gifted vision who plays a soft game. When pressed to play a two way game he just comes up short. His size makes his reach long enough to get him out of trouble but his two way game is average at best and he plays like he is less than 6' tall. I like him and will love having him on our team if we take him but I will be holding my breath hoping he develops into the player that a few pundits and most here think he will become. I would say that his absolute upside is one of Turcotte or maybe a hybrid of him and Villardi which would be excellent but that is at his best where each of the 3 players mentioned look to have a higher ceiling. Who knows anyway but geez the overwhelming support for QB is simply baffling to me. We haven't sniffed the 2nd overall pick since 08 when we picked up DD. Seems like we drop 3 every year and get good but not great players. I don't want to gamble, I want player certainty but that is just me.

 

[ricardfromage]

Even if the turnaround is this season--wouldn't it be great to have a Kopitar replacement arrive in two years?

If the team is that good this year, wouldn't it be better with that addition with additional cost control later?

With respect, I think drafting for "now" is a mistake. I know "now" means "now AND later," but I don't see the next two years as so valuable that it determines our draft pick.

I don't think that I would pick QB at #2 as I have said in another post but I absolutely agree with the idea that you take the very best player available as opposed to drafting anyone based on need. It is why I believe that Askarov has to be in the conversation. Not the guy I would pick but he has generational talent in net written all over him. We have a couple of very solid young net minders for sure but having the next Hasek would be an incredible thing to have.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Rossi is over a year older than Byfield. Compare how Rossi performed when he was at the same age as Byfield and look at the results.

 

[KINGS17]

For sure. I've just been paying a close attention to a lot of videos about the two since I'm very interested in this years draft as you can imagine lol.

There is a lot of great content and I personally don't think there's a "better" option as of right now in number 2. I'm just curious to see what kind of player the Kings are looking for. Knowing the Kings it's going to be the Byfield archetype. Great player but I'd rather have someone dynamic on the ice which I think stutzle is.

I hear and read a lot about "ceilings" for players which I think are usually irrelevant since they are usually pretty off. People say Byfield has a higher ceiling than stutzle but that means nothing to me to be honest. I've seen the Kings go for "ceiling" players who weren't too impressive at the time and nothing came of it.

For me Byfield's ceiling is in where he fits into the lineup. He will likely come into the NHL as a 2C or 3C, and eventually become a very productive 1C.

Byfield will also add quite a bit more muscle and strength since he is almost a year younger than most of his peers in this draft.

 

[Fishhead]

FWIW, most scouting reports say QB is good defensively. Great stick, uses his size to kill cycles, good backchecking vs. the rush. From what I've seen of him, he stands around a bit at times and he's going to need some faceoff work to maintain 50% as a pro, but I certainly wouldn't call him soft or average. He's not a bruiser but he uses his size effectively, kind of like Kopitar does.

What's interesting if you look at QB's metrics, they are right there with Laf. You'll notice things like primary points per minute and expected goals are actually higher, which is pretty amazing given he's 10 months younger. What sets Laf apart in my opinion is his ridiculous compete level. He just won't be denied when it comes to making things happen and has elite skills to go along with it.

I'd be fine with either QB or Stützle, but the unique package that QB has puts him slightly ahead for me. There's also the fact that many scouts and coaches emphasize how fast he learns and picks things up. I'm pretty sure the Kings can turn the kid into a monster.

 

[BigKing]

I think it is telling that the Kings were supposedly going to take Dach. Blake also took Vilardi. Big centers.

You can't say "but what if he wasn't that big" just like you can't say "what if so-and-so wasn't so small": if you are a large human being that can not only keep up but thrive in the "new" NHL, you have a great advantage.

I'm not saying that QB is Kopitar or will be as good as him, but having Kopitar as basically a set-and-forget #1C for 15 years makes you realize how nice it is. I think Blake played with the Derek Armstrong #1C Kings so he might even have a better appreciation for it, especially when he sandwiched that with Sakic/Forsberg and Thornton/Marleau.

I don't think they have soured on Turcotte but he has been banged up and it would be hard to fully trust Vilardi's health. Think of it like the Cardinals: they drafted Rosen and then took Kyler Murray the very next draft, wasting the Rosen draft capital. I think the Kings might feel like they are in the same type of situation when it comes to having that dominant #1C in the pipeline: they don't have him yet.