Prospect Info: Who does LA pick #2? Part 2 To Byfield or to Stutzle? That is the question

[Jericho111091]

Personally I prefer the creativity of Stutzle a tiny bit more (though byfield is plenty creative as well) but would be over the moon with either

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I have never said, nor do I believe that Byfield is the better player. I actually think Stützle is the better player now and likely in the future - but I completely acknowledge and support the idea that Byfield's top potential is well worth the 2nd overall pick because the impact of a dominant #1c is the most important position in hockey. If you are gifted that chance, you have to take it.

Secondly, Stützle won't just improve the current group, he will likely improve everybody he plays with, be it Kaliyev, Fagemo, Vilardi, Madden, or any player brought in. THAT is his skill set, creating high level chances for players off of the puck. Of course Byfield does the same at a high level, just not to Stützle's extreme.

Then i'm sorry I misread, you said exactly "If nothing else was considered, just purely the player, Byfield wins."

I get what you're saying about Stutzle's elite playmaking and that's what made my choice so hard in the first place.

The one thing I like about him more than most that doesn't get talked about enough is his work/checking, dude is a f***ing buzzsaw always moving and being disruptive, he takes the best of Wagner/Lizotte and adds elite skill. I do think he has a higher floor than Byfield on that alone, the guy will easily be able to play top line as a total menace getting in on the forecheck and much like other top players a high offensive IQ allows for great puck retrieval reads too.

I mean, I still don't think it's an 'easy' choice and I'm glad I"m not the one that has to make it, haha. I've just dug in on Byfield to make a final decision on potential and pedigree. And I think he's at least a Blake Wheeler.

 

[No Name The Nameless]

What about a #3 & #5 overall for #2+ trade with the Senators? I don't know how badly the Senators want the #2, but it might seem attractive if they want to build around Byfield really bad. If the Kings add two second rounders, would that work?

Dude. That would be a good send. Let the Sens do the work. Take the next best player and Drysdale. I cannot imagine the Sens would do that though

 

[bland]

Then i'm sorry I misread, you said exactly "If nothing else was considered, just purely the player, Byfield wins."

I get what you're saying about Stutzle's elite playmaking and that's what made my choice so hard in the first place.

The one thing I like about him more than most that doesn't get talked about enough is his work/checking, dude is a f***ing buzzsaw always moving and being disruptive, he takes the best of Wagner/Lizotte and adds elite skill. I do think he has a higher floor than Byfield on that alone, the guy will easily be able to play top line as a total menace getting in on the forecheck and much like other top players a high offensive IQ allows for great puck retrieval reads too.

I mean, I still don't think it's an 'easy' choice and I'm glad I"m not the one that has to make it, haha. I've just dug in on Byfield to make a final decision on potential and pedigree. And I think he's at least a Blake Wheeler.

Yeah, I may not have been clear, if its just the player, which I mean to include potential, its Byfield. Its a lottery ticket chance for the mega-ist of jackpots.

Normally I am not big on comparisons because so few are apt, but if I were to compare what I expect from Stützle's potential NHL game, it would be 70% Henrik Sedin, 30% Peter Forsberg. Neither of those dudes were known for shooting either, and they have HOF caliber careers.

 

[Piston]

There are value calculations out there on what it historically takes to move up to particular slots and it would cost way more than that to secure the #5 overall even while flip flopping #2 and #3 overall.

Don't underestimate the value of moving up one slot. For moving down to #3, we could get the Islanders #1 which Ottawa got in the Pageau trade. Having said that, the Islanders #1 plus our two #2s is not enough to get the #5 pick. If we threw in a prospect however...

 

[funky]

With all this bickering I guess we might as well just add an asset to the #2 and go for Lafreniere. As long as that assets name is not Vilardi or Turcotte.

Lafrenière brings power with skill. Adding a physical forward to our group of pups would be great.

either way look at our pool next year

(Lafrenière, Byfield, Stutzle)
Turcotte
Vilardi
Kaliyev
Fagemo
Madden
Kupari (wow almost forgot him)

Anderson
Bjornfot
Clague
(Wallinder, Barron, Grans, Schneider, Guhle)
Durzi



next years draft is alleged to be Defence heavy. This years UFA market is Defence heavy. We have money and in two years we will have lots of boxes to fill. Some will be prospects a few may be the right UFA.

Wether this pick be an elite power winger, a massive skilled pivot with speed or a burner on the wing that likes to set up plays our team could use each skill set. But if you guys are like me we will wait the next 3 months with baited breath to see who our teams brain trust Go with.

Wait until Bettman starts the draft with “I would like to announce a trade”

 

[Schrute farms]

I don't care if my top 5 prospects are all Cs, if the guy at #2 is a Center -- i'm taking him every single time regardless of other so-called "organizational needs".

Moving Cs to the wing is pretty easy and quite advantageous. More importantly, i'd love to be in the position of being able to trade a top C later on (because i'm overflowing with top Cs) and reaping the huge return I get. Trading a top young center is gold for returns.

Fun fact: when trading, you can ask and get other positions back like LW, RW, D....

 

[bland]

I don't care if my top 5 prospects are all Cs, if the guy at #2 is a Center -- i'm taking him every single time regardless of other so-called "organizational needs".

Moving Cs to the wing is pretty easy and quite advantageous. More importantly, i'd love to be in the position of being able to trade a top C later on (because i'm overflowing with top Cs) and reaping the huge return I get. Trading a top young center is gold for returns.

Fun fact: when trading, you can ask and get other positions back like LW, RW, D....

 

[King'sPawn]

While position can come into play with other factors being equal, you still want to go with BPA.

I've said it before, but my take: the advantage in potential Byfield has over Stutzle is wider than the advantage in current skill level Stutzle has over Byfield. It's just very close to me, though

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The Kings badly needed a defenseman at the time of the 2005 draft. So imagine if they opted to select Marc Staal, Sasha Pokuloc or Ryan Parent over Anze Kopitar based on the team’s immediate needs at that time. That mistake would have resulted in zero Stanley Cups.

 

[redcard]

The Kings badly needed a defenseman at the time of the 2005 draft. So imagine if they opted to select Marc Staal, Sasha Pokuloc or Ryan Parent over Anze Kopitar based on the team’s immediate needs at that time. That mistake would have resulted in zero Stanley Cups.

I'm going to be obnoxiously pedantic and argue that said mistake would have resulted in -2 Stanley Cups.

 

[Lt Dan]

The Kings badly needed a defenseman at the time of the 2005 draft. So imagine if they opted to select Marc Staal, Sasha Pokuloc or Ryan Parent over Anze Kopitar based on the team’s immediate needs at that time. That mistake would have resulted in zero Stanley Cups.

That team badly needed help at most positions

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

That team badly needed help at most positions

Ottawa drafted Brian Lee right before Kopitar based on team situation and need. That's like the perfect cautionary tale right there.

 

[Peter James Bond III]

What about a #3 & #5 overall for #2+ trade with the Senators? I don't know how badly the Senators want the #2, but it might seem attractive if they want to build around Byfield really bad. If the Kings add two second rounders, would that work?

I think a more realistic scenario is Kings #2 and #35 overall, for Sens #3 and #21 (from Islanders) overall. No way the Sens deal #3 and #5 for #2 and #35 + another second rounder.
If the Kings are about 50/50 on Byfield and Stutzle and the Sens prefer one over the other, they get their player...and Kings get the other player, plus move up
14 spots from 35 to 21 and have a shot at a player, 14 higher on their list. The Kings have about 20 quality prospects and best to get more quality over quantity,
at this point.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

That team badly needed help at most positions

That’s true. They had no goalie prospects, and the best they had in the pipeline were Adam Hauser, Ryan Munce, and Matt Zaba. That’s pitiful.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

These rankings of Kings prospects circa 2000 is something else.
Hockey's Future: The Hockey Prospects Resource (Covering the WHL, QMJHL, AHL, OHL, College, The NHL Entry Draft, and All Junior Hockey)

 

[PumperNichol]

These rankings of Kings prospects circa 2000 is something else.
Hockey's Future: The Hockey Prospects Resource (Covering the WHL, QMJHL, AHL, OHL, College, The NHL Entry Draft, and All Junior Hockey)

Yeah the difference is they had a really good team.

 

[KINGS17]

He isn't but Rorsch places a ton of emphasis on the fact that Stutzle played in the DEL and he wants someone that can immediately step in and play next season.

A player's ability to come in and immediately play next season isn't high on my list of evaluation criteria. Those who have that high on their list fantasize about Kopitar hoisting the cup someday as captain of the Kings, which is very unlikely.

 

[KINGS17]

Just to play devil's advocate, "if" Byfield is like your last paragraph, would you still take him if his impact is nearly identical to what you already have in Vilardi?

My last paragraph was more about Byfield's personality and leadership qualities. Two things about which I know very little, hence the "IF". I already see the kind of work ethic, effort, etc. from Vilardi which perhaps makes him a potential letter wearer someday, or a "glue guy".

I think as far as having an impact on games, I expect Byfield has the potential to be a notch or two above Vilardi.

 

[ru4reals]

These rankings of Kings prospects circa 2000 is something else.
Hockey's Future: The Hockey Prospects Resource (Covering the WHL, QMJHL, AHL, OHL, College, The NHL Entry Draft, and All Junior Hockey)

My goodness that list of our prospects during this time was absolutely horrendous. Sheesh. No wonder we sucked for so long. Yikes.

 

[cyclones22]

What a pathetic list. Joe Rullier was our top prospect? He was so great he was on there TWICE at number 1 and number 4. Was that a typo? Not only is he listed twice on the prospect ranking list but also twice in the depth chart with different grades

 

[Mats26]

A player's ability to come in and immediately play next season isn't high on my list of evaluation criteria. Those who have that high on their list fantasize about Kopitar hoisting the cup someday as captain of the Kings, which is very unlikely.

I agree and it shouldn't but let's be realistic about our expectations. If we select QB the development curve will be alot longer. He will need to go through the proper development path, good pro coaching and eventually Kopitar's mentoring. We will need to expect some growing pains and how QB reacts and deals with his growing frame and his own expectations will ultimatley affect how close he can reach his ceiling. If Malkin is his ceiling then we need to temper our expectations that it might not be reached for at least 5 years or more. I feel he will take the Joe Thorton development route when he started off in Boston. Need to be patient with the big and skilled guys as the rewards might come later.

 

[KINGS17]

I agree and it shouldn't but let's be realistic about our expectations. If we select QB the development curve will be alot longer. He will need to go through the proper development path, good pro coaching and eventually Kopitar's mentoring. We will need to expect some growing pains and how QB reacts and deals with his growing frame and his own expectations will ultimatley affect how close he can reach his ceiling. If Malkin is his ceiling then we need to temper our expectations that it might not be reached for at least 5 years or more. I feel he will take the Joe Thorton development route when he started off in Boston. Need to be patient with the big and skilled guys as the rewards might come later.

I am a patient man, and said so many times back in 2009-2011 when people were calling for Lombardi's head.

 

[No Name The Nameless]

I agree and it shouldn't but let's be realistic about our expectations. If we select QB the development curve will be alot longer. He will need to go through the proper development path, good pro coaching and eventually Kopitar's mentoring. We will need to expect some growing pains and how QB reacts and deals with his growing frame and his own expectations will ultimatley affect how close he can reach his ceiling. If Malkin is his ceiling then we need to temper our expectations that it might not be reached for at least 5 years or more. I feel he will take the Joe Thorton development route when he started off in Boston. Need to be patient with the big and skilled guys as the rewards might come later.

Thorton was a different breed of player from a different era. Different skill sets. I cannot see a guy so big, athletic, used to public attention and works as hard as Byfield requiring 5 years to develop. Byfield has a different body than Joe did. Byfield should easily be able to add strength properly.

 

[BigKing]

These rankings of Kings prospects circa 2000 is something else.
Hockey's Future: The Hockey Prospects Resource (Covering the WHL, QMJHL, AHL, OHL, College, The NHL Entry Draft, and All Junior Hockey)

"Brian McGratten - Top Prospect?"

That's amazing. They didn't even spell his name right.