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Prospect Info: Who does LA pick #2? Part 2 To Byfield or to Stutzle? That is the question

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VILARGOD said:
I live in LA and had close friends in the Kings organization from 2005 to late 2007, I remember hearing after the draft that

Dean Lombardi had Logan Couture and Thomas Hickey as his top 2 leading into draft day. And the night before, he decided it with a coin flip. No joke.

Edit: I was told this before I even knew who Logan Couture was as I wasn't following hockey that closely at the time. I did know who Thomas Hickey was because the Kings selected him
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Thanks for sharing that. Yeesh, Dean Lombardi lost a coin toss against himself. I recall Couture was a name who was considered top 5 for most of the year, but he dropped a few spots due to head scratching picks like the Hickey one, and the Sharks traded up from #13 (packaged with picks #44 and #87) to #9 to draft Couture.
 
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SFKingshomer said:
Kings will go off the board and select Drysdale.
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The Mayor said that's not happening. It's between Byfield and Stutzle. Leaning towards Byfield now. Can't believe how soon October 6th is. I feel like it was only last week we were saying "This will be a long process of back & forth until the draft". Well, the draft is in three weeks. Are there any reports out there other than The Mayor saying Kings are leaning towards Byfield?
 
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AKAY47 said:
The Mayor said that's not happening. It's between Byfield and Stutzle. Leaning towards Byfield now. Can't believe how soon October 6th is. I feel like it was only last week we were saying "This will be a long process of back & forth until the draft". Well, the draft is in three weeks. Are there any reports out there other than The Mayor saying Kings are leaning towards Byfield?
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I posted this a few pages back, but an Ottawa based reporter wrote an article quoting an anonymous head scout claiming the Kings are leaning towards Byfield.
Repêchage de la LNH: que feront les Kings ?
A head scout at an NHL club interviewed by Le Droit anonymously in return for his franchise hears that the Kings are leaning towards Byfield, and he says that's good news for the Senators.
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Poor Sens and their fans missing out on Byfield. It's gotta sting being so close to getting a franchise stud like Byfield, yet so far

LA and their fans hit the jackpot with Byfield, and LA brass have known all along since they got the #2 pick that they were taking Q at #2, it really never was up for debate like some people and Sens fans want to make it out to be
 
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From The Athletic today. Q&A with 8 NHL scouts:

NHL Scouts Poll 2020: Byfield vs. Stutzle, video views and an 'exceptional' crop

As always, The Athletic canvassed eight NHL scouts to get their thoughts on the 2020 draft class. In keeping with tradition, the scouts are based in different territories covering Western Canada, Ontario, Quebec and the Maritimes, the U.S. and Europe. Also included in the group is an NHL director of amateur scouting. Their answers are published out of sequence and edited for style, length and clarity, and not every scout addressed every question.

This year there seems to be a decent split among the scouts on who should be selected after consensus No. 1 pick Alexis Lafrenière. Sudbury’s Quinton Byfield held a 5-3 edge over the top-ranked European skater, Tim Stutzle, who already has a pro season under his belt with Mannheim in the top German league. It’ll be interesting to see who LA takes with the No. 2 pick and who is left for Ottawa at No. 3.

This year’s draft class features a lot of high-end forwards after Lafrenière — who would you take at No. 2?
  • Quinton Byfield (C, Sudbury, OHL)
  • Quinton Byfield (C, Sudbury, OHL)
  • Quinton Byfield (C, Sudbury, OHL)
  • Quinton Byfield (C, Sudbury, OHL)
  • Big center for me, Byfield.
  • Tim Stutzle (LW, Mannheim, DEL)
  • Tim Stutzle (LW, Mannheim, DEL)
  • This is not a risk-free choice, but I would go with Tim Stutzle, I love this player and he proved to be effective last season vs. the pros. His skills, skating and vision are really spectacular.
 
Ziggy Stardust said:
Thanks for sharing that. Yeesh, Dean Lombardi lost a coin toss against himself. I recall Couture was a name who was considered top 5 for most of the year, but he dropped a few spots due to head scratching picks like the Hickey one, and the Sharks traded up from #13 (packaged with picks #44 and #87) to #9 to draft Couture.
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Just some notes on Couture from Gare Joyce's Future Greats and Heartbreaks:

- Missed the summer 2006 Ivan Hlinka after he got his leg cut on the last shift of the tryout camp.
- Had mono, was projected to miss 3+ months but returned after 5 weeks. However he looked gassed a lot because of it. He was getting hit more and Joyce wondered if teams would consider Couture being brave or reckless by continuing to play.
- Couture had a bad U18 which probably hurt his stock going into the draft. Couture noted that Canada had too many natural centers, so he volunteered to play wing but had a tough tournament as a result.

If I remember correctly, most of the final rankings had Couture out of the top 10. Doug Wilson played juniors for the Ottawa 67's (where Couture was playing) so he seemingly had a good relationship as Brian Kilrea coached both Wilson and Couture; It used to be a safe bet that the Sharks would draft at least one Ottawa 67 every year. Apparently San Jose had gotten word that Florida was going to take Couture at #10, so that's why they traded up to #9.
 
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Brodeur said:
Just some notes on Couture from Gare Joyce's Future Greats and Heartbreaks:

- Missed the summer 2006 Ivan Hlinka after he got his leg cut on the last shift of the tryout camp.
- Had mono, was projected to miss 3+ months but returned after 5 weeks. However he looked gassed a lot because of it. He was getting hit more and Joyce wondered if teams would consider Couture being brave or reckless by continuing to play.
- Couture had a bad U18 which probably hurt his stock going into the draft. Couture noted that Canada had too many natural centers, so he volunteered to play wing but had a tough tournament as a result.

If I remember correctly, most of the final rankings had Couture out of the top 10. Doug Wilson played juniors for the Ottawa 67's (where Couture was playing) so he seemingly had a good relationship as Brian Kilrea coached both Wilson and Couture; It used to be a safe bet that the Sharks would draft at least one Ottawa 67 every year. Apparently San Jose had gotten word that Florida was going to take Couture at #10, so that's why they traded up to #9.
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And I guess you can say Doug Wilson came out the winner of that coin toss.

I do recall prior to all of that Couture's name was even considered as a top pick, as mentioned in this draft primer.
2007 NHL Draft: Player rankings
6. Logan Couture (Ottawa 67's, OHL)
A bout with mono took its toll early, but he is starting to show the form that made him an early favorite to be a No. 1 pick. His offensive game always has been very good, but his overall game also has impressed.
NHL comparable: Tim Connolly, Buffalo Sabres
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Dobber also had him as the #1 ranked prospect in their mid-season rankings.
2007 NHL Entry Draft Top 30 - Part 1
1. Logan Couture, C, Ottawa 67s (OHL)
Height: 6'0 Weight: 191
Scouting Report: One of the best natural leaders in the CHL. Immediately changed the fortunes of the 67s top line upon returning from injury- suddenly, Jamie McGinn was not only very good but dominant once again. Incredible vision and timing. Creates plays through a combination of fantastic reads, pure skill and a willingness to get in the dirt. Could stand to play with more effort; while the pivot has lots of heart and will never give up on a play, shift or game, he would be an elite prospect if the motor ran on high every second.
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Guess you can also chalk up his name as another top prospect who was overlooked because of false impressions from a brief tournament. Then you look at Zach Hamill who had excellent tournament numbers and look at how his career went.
 
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Yeah from what I remember Couture was expected to be a top 5 pick heading into the draft year but gradually slipped down the rankings even though on paper he put up decent numbers. Joyce also had a side story about how Couture was supposed to go #1 in the OHL Draft in 2005 but then John Tavares was granted exceptional status. Oshawa had a handshake agreement to take Couture but changed course when Tavares became an option. Couture's family apparently got pissed at the OHL and they gave legitimate consideration to go NCAA instead. Couture ended up dropping to #12 to Ottawa since other teams were worried that he wouldn't report. We've seen stories about NHL teams "scouting" a prospect's parents, so maybe teams were worried that his parents might be a bit too meddlesome or if Couture himself felt entitled in the sense of "If I'm not going #1 then don't pick me at all."

Joyce's book is presented in almost diary format. That previous chunk was from November 2006 and he had a later February 2007 entry on Couture as well:

- On top of the leg cut and a bout with mono, Couture now had injuries to both knees that he was trying to play through. Joyce notes that he's gotten the sense that "over the stretch, he must be scaring off scouts and teams."
- Couture plays a great game but Joyce's lasting memory is seeing Couture in the locker room after the game barely able to walk.
- Joyce had previously mentioned Alyn McCauley and Adrian Foster as he watched Couture play through injury. McCauley, a former 67, played through concussions and other injuries and had a fantastic junior career but stalled for awhile as a pro. Foster had been a surprise late 1st round pick by the Devils in 2001 but was having another injury riddled season in 2006-07.
 
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SFKingshomer said:
I read somewhere that the Bruins were set to take Hickey at #8 and Lombardi couldn’t find a partner to trade down.
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It's interesting to see the potential dominoes that could fall. I remember a separate draft day video where St. Louis badly wanted Jakub Voracek and offered #9 and #24 to Edmonton for #6 but the Oilers declined. At the time, there was a perceived tier drop at 6/7 depending on how you felt about Alexei Cherepanov (RIP). I can only assume St. Louis approached the Kings with a similar offer. When they couldn't get Voracek, St. Louis figured they could safely trade back and get their next target Lars Eller. Gare Joyce got to ride shotgun with Columbus for the 2006 and 2007 Drafts, so he mentioned how Columbus was sweating out being at #7 (they were hosting the draft and had just fired their GM) since they had a top 6 then a drop where they would have gone with either Ryan McDonagh or Kevin Shattenkirk.

It's interesting to think whether Boston had tipped its hand about Hickey at #8, so that was why Lombardi wouldn't have taken St. Louis' offer to move down to #9. I remember when the St. Louis table was mulling over whether to move down from #9 to #13 they were trying to figure out who was gonna go 10-12. One of their scouts quickly said "Carolina's all over [Brandon] Sutter at #11" so it's interesting to wonder how much info might get shared between rival scouts. I remember video of George McPhee prepping for the 2006 Draft where the Capitals had the 4th pick and they wanted Nicklas Backstrom. He called Penguins GM Ray Shero to get a sense of what they were doing at #2 and Shero said they were either taking Jordan Staal or trading the pick to Carolina for Jack Johnson and Carolina would then take Staal. Off camera, Chicago GM Dale Tallon had told him they were going with Jonathan Toews or Phil Kessel at #3 so McPhee felt confident that they were landing their guy.
 
Ziggy Stardust said:
Thanks for sharing that. Yeesh, Dean Lombardi lost a coin toss against himself. I recall Couture was a name who was considered top 5 for most of the year, but he dropped a few spots due to head scratching picks like the Hickey one, and the Sharks traded up from #13 (packaged with picks #44 and #87) to #9 to draft Couture.
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So I realized today that posting that story online, could cause some sort of echo down the line for Kings fans. It was also a story I had kind of forgotten about, and that video of the Kings selecting Hickey totally triggered it. So I wanted to follow up with my buddy who originally told me that story to make sure I had the story straight.

Apparently, he now thinks that story is utter bullocks. I guess the person who had originally told him that story, had a somewhat different version of the story each time he asked about it some time later.

Now, you could chalk that up to the story having some truth to it and the lines being blurred each time it was passed down, or that it's just straight up BS. My buddy thinks it's BS and said he doesn't trust said person who originally told him. I'll leave it up to you guys do decide how you feel about it.

Anyways, just thought I'd follow up, as thats some pretty damning information on Lombardi if true.

Edit: spelling
 
raswilliam said:
Couture rankings

International Scouting Service: 10
Central Scouting: 19 - North America
The Hockey News: 7
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And Hickey had an even wider spread, as Bob McKenzie brings up in that draft video. Thankfully, the Kings have moved on from making such far reaching picks to address immediate needs. Yannetti has said countless times that was a mistake they’ve learned from.
 
cyclones22 said:
He freaking said "tragic" mistake :laugh:. Oh well, butterfly effect and all that. For 2 Cups I'd sacrifice the Hickey pick at the alter.
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Oh, definitely. Thankfully Doughty, Martinez, Voynov and Muzzin all came up and made up for that mistake. Now if you’re picking top 2 in a deep draft, you better get that pick right. We’re fortunate (as is Ottawa) that this is unlike 2004 where the consolation prize after Ovechkin/Malkin was Cam Barker.

Three years later, Chicago made up for that lottery loss when they wound up with the #1 pick, Patrick Kane.
 
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For as divey and mouthy as Couture is and I give him a lot of shit for it, he's a pretty gutsy dude too. Plays through a lot and has probably the most clutch instincts the Sharks have seen in their history. Glad things went the way they did of course.


Ziggy Stardust said:
Oh, definitely. Thankfully Doughty, Martinez, Voynov and Muzzin all came up and made up for that mistake. Now if you’re picking top 2 in a deep draft, you better get that pick right. We’re fortunate (as is Ottawa) that this is unlike 2004 where the consolation prize after Ovechkin/Malkin was Cam Barker.

Three years later, Chicago made up for that lottery loss when they wound up with the #1 pick, Patrick Kane.
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That's just how it goes sometimes, though. Nobody knew Cam Barker was Cam Barker either. for all we know we pick Raymond (yes i knowit's stutzle or byfield just not trying to pick on either dude right now) and he totally busts, but we pick Ozzy Wiesblatt and he goes nuclear. That's why it's nice to have a team that's done very well outside the first with so many picks outside the first. I agree that the top-3 picks are hopefully different though.
 
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