Prospect Info: Who does LA pick #2? Part 2 To Byfield or to Stutzle? That is the question

[Raccoon Jesus]

I would suggest that talking about the game and its players is a lot more interesting than being concerned about what fans from other teams have to say.

Nobody needs to be absolved of anything, its just internet nonsense.

And, I will add, Byfield is easily more of a perimeter player than Stützle. Stützle always gets his nose dirty along the wall, Byfield hangs back and looks to strip at the blueline.

Stützle doggedly pursues, Byfield hangs back and sets up traps. Both are very effective at what they do, but your characterization is incorrect.

i would also wonder how much of that is systematic vs. characteristic.

Sort of similar with their criticisms. I have no doubt Stutzle will try to take the ice in the NA game instead of taking laps with the space he has in the DEL jsut like i have no doubts Byfield is going to work the cycle game a lot more.

 

[Fishhead]

I also prefer prospects who don't shoot much, lest they strike and injure a teammate with an errant shot.

 

[Sol]

Essentially Doughtys form. Unnecessary wind up, check, misses wide, check. Completely telegraphed. Check.

 

[Sol]

Let's just hope ol Byfield can make us proud. I have my doubts, but I guess that's the curse with have second overall.

 

[King'sPawn]

Stützle's one stinking year of a poor shooting percentage and his playing on international ice are brought up in virtually every critical post.

One is a remark on where he struggled during the season versus where one excelled. It's like saying "yeah, Stutzle has great vision, but he won't be able to make those same plays at the NHL level."

There are valid criticisms of adjustment. Adjustment to North American ice is levied about virtually every European. How many players get criticized for being "too good at transition"?

Of course, there are questions of Byfield adjusting to the next level. Most notably, will he grow and assert himself with his size, or will he develop his game more like Kopitar where he uses his size to protect the puck? Will he adjust to the faster pace of the NHL level? How will he read the developing plays?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

From the Prospects board, a terrific visual of a chart showing the consensus rankings of the top 80 prospects.
Consensus Top 80 Draft Rankings (pooled from 11 draft experts)

Interesting to note that Byfield's highest ranking was #1 and lowest was #3, and some other scouting service had Stutzle as low as #8.

A number of attractive defensemen in the 20s-30s who most of us would like to see the Kings nab. I also certainly do hope Jake Neighbors is there for the Kings with one of their spare second rounders.

 

[bland]

One is a remark on where he struggled during the season versus where one excelled. It's like saying "yeah, Stutzle has great vision, but he won't be able to make those same plays at the NHL level."

There are valid criticisms of adjustment. Adjustment to North American ice is levied about virtually every European. How many players get criticized for being "too good at transition"?

Of course, there are questions of Byfield adjusting to the next level. Most notably, will he grow and assert himself with his size, or will he develop his game more like Kopitar where he uses his size to protect the puck? Will he adjust to the faster pace of the NHL level? How will he read the developing plays?

That's my point. All this dissection is normal, but the concern over whether one player is being treated more harshly than another is childish bickering. Everybody is getting more venom these days, its part and parcel of the social climate. Nothing can be just a "concern" anymore, it's getting read by a lot of folks like somebody insulted their mother and spat on their flag of choice.

 

[raswilliam]

whoa!! draft dynasty with a unique take on the top 10.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

That's my point. All this dissection is normal, but the concern over whether one player is being treated more harshly than another is childish bickering. Everybody is getting more venom these days, its part and parcel of the social climate. Nothing can be just a "concern" anymore, it's getting read by a lot of folks like somebody insulted their mother and spat on their flag of choice.

This all stemmed from someone suggesting Byfield's hockey IQ is a weakness, when that's a completely false statement according to tons of scouting reports which I provided.

It's a discussion on the falsehoods being made about a player, like your inaccurate characterization of Byfield's game. I countered that argument with evidence. That's how you rationalize and form opinions.

If we're going to pick apart his game over nuances, then might as well do that every time a prospects name is brought up. Hell, the same was done concerning Doughty and his fitness prior to the 2008 draft.

 

[regulate]

It's likely going to be thin pickings when they get down to #35 for D men. There will be a few with decent potential possibly still there (I wouldn't mind O'Rourke), but I think most will be off the board by then. I also would like them to look at Hunt, Faber in the late 2nd to 4th round.

 

[King'sPawn]

From the Prospects board, a terrific visual of a chart showing the consensus rankings of the top 80 prospects.
Consensus Top 80 Draft Rankings (pooled from 11 draft experts)

Interesting to note that Byfield's highest ranking was #1 and lowest was #3, and some other scouting service had Stutzle as low as #8.

A number of attractive defensemen in the 20s-30s who most of us would like to see the Kings nab. I also certainly do hope Jake Neighbors is there for the Kings with one of their spare second rounders.

Interesting. Not sure why certain independent scouting services (FC, McKeen's) was used while others (HP, LWOH) were left off. Can't be cost, as LW is free, and it can't be content, as HP's list goes into the hundreds

 

[kingsboy11]

Where'd you find this footage of me playing highschool soccer?

 

[bland]

This all stemmed from someone suggesting Byfield's hockey IQ is a weakness, when that's a completely false statement according to tons of scouting reports which I provided.

It's a discussion on the falsehoods being made about a player, like your inaccurate characterization of Byfield's game. I countered that argument with evidence. That's how you rationalize and form opinions.

If we're going to pick apart his game over nuances, then might as well do that every time a prospects name is brought up. Hell, the same was done concerning Doughty and his fitness prior to the 2008 draft.

No, its your continual inability to understand what people are saying then turning it into a bitchfest.

I didn't say Byfield was a perimeter player. I said he is more of a perimeter player than Stützle, which is 100% accurate.

I also said on the same freaking page that Byfield's style of game is very close to that of Rick Nash, which is to hang in the weeds then jump in and out of the dangerous areas.

Go back and watch the videos you posted - you don't see Byfield pressuring opponents, you see him hanging out between the top.of the circles and the blueline and looking to strip opponents as they transition up ice. Scouching points this out for you in detail. Stützle pursues the puck, Byfield sets traps.

And ask yourself if people are questioning his IQ in general, or just whether or not it is on par with a #2 overall pick franchise level player.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

No, its your continual inability to understand what people are saying then turning it into a bitchfest.

I didn't say Byfield was a perimeter player. I said he is more of a perimeter player than Stützle, which is 100% accurate.

I also said on the same freaking page that Byfield's style of game is very close to that of Rick Nash, which is to hang in the weeds then jump in and out of the dangerous areas.

Go back and watch the videos you posted - you don't see Byfield pressuring opponents, you see him hanging out between the top.of the circles and the blueline and looking to strip opponents as they transition up ice. Scouching points this out for you in detail. Stützle pursues the puck, Byfield sets traps.

And ask yourself if people are questioning his IQ in general, or just whether or not it is on par with a #2 overall pick franchise level player.

So having a discussion on a prospect is having a bitchfest? Is that what you're doing now? I thought you said all this dissection is normal? So why are you getting all bitchy if the same criticism is applied to another prospect? I guess we shouldn't present any counterarguments if someone's inaccurate description of a player is challenged.

Perhaps you should also pay attention to this Scouching video where he talks about Stutzle's reluctance to go to the middle of the ice and to rely on the perimeter. Sounds like similar criticisms some have towards Byfield can be applied here as well.


And how do you even measure IQ and how can you assess what is or isn't on par for a #2 pick? Show me an example. Isn't hanging in the weeds and picking off passes and lanes and counter transitioning it into a scoring opportunity considered a high IQ move?

 

[Schrute farms]

October 6/7 can't come soon enough

 

[Sleeping Dog]

October 6/7 can't come soon enough

Then we’ll be saying “when will training camp open”. I saw that it was a year ago (yesterday) that the Kings had the open house at TSC. Will miss that this year.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Kings will go off the board and select Drysdale.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Kings will go off the board and select Drysdale.

 

[Statto]

Kings will go off the board and select Drysdale.

Stop! No! I couldn’t take it.

I want Byfield, would be fine with Stützle and anything else leaves me crying in the corner.

 

[KingsOfCali25]

My dream draft would be Stutzle and jumping back up to get a falling down the draft Seth Jarvis (15-22).

I see Jarvis as a guy that will be one of the Top3 best players to come out of this draft when looking back down the road (kind of like Zegras last year). He has all the attributes you can find in guys like Patrick Kane or Mitch Marner.

 

[MrGuyPerson]

So having a discussion on a prospect is having a bitchfest? Is that what you're doing now? I thought you said all this dissection is normal? So why are you getting all bitchy if the same criticism is applied to another prospect? I guess we shouldn't present any counterarguments if someone's inaccurate description of a player is challenged.

Perhaps you should also pay attention to this Scouching video where he talks about Stutzle's reluctance to go to the middle of the ice and to rely on the perimeter. Sounds like similar criticisms some have towards Byfield can be applied here as well.


And how do you even measure IQ and how can you assess what is or isn't on par for a #2 pick? Show me an example. Isn't hanging in the weeds and picking off passes and lanes and counter transitioning it into a scoring opportunity considered a high IQ move?

I don't believe IQ is measurable as much as it is noticeable. It is not easy to detect watching highlight clips. You need to analyze the players entire shift in a sample size of as many games as possible.

Hanging in the weeds and picking off passes is a form of high hockey IQ, which is the reason why I don't think any one that is moderately knowledgeable about hockey believes that Byfield has a low IQ. That form of IQ is what I would label reactionary Hockey IQ. Being able to recognize and take advantage of opportunities as they present themselves. That combined with Byfields strong positioning(anticipatory) and excellent vision(both depending on scenario) make his overall IQ on the higher end of the spectrum, which combined with his elite technical skills easily translates to top 10 talent.

The critique on Byfield is not that he has a poor IQ, but that in the other form of IQ Byfield is not off the charts to the degree of... well... a "franchise" player. The form of IQ not off the charts is what I would label as anticipatory IQ. This does pertain to the defensive side, but typically I give it more weight towards offense. Off the puck is an important component and that is truthfully an area Byfield's IQ is very high. Players with the highest anticipatory IQ operate on a level where their brain is multiple steps ahead. It is really just the extent a player understands/processes the game and is able to predict then create outcomes. They rarely if ever make the wrong read or turn the puck over. Most importantly play seems to gravitate around them. Not only are they good, but people on their line benefit just from being around them. Crosby and Gretzky have the highest anticipatory IQ ever. Seriously, it is very hard to describe but just watch and analyze sidney crosby in any game he's played since 07-08. Not his highlights, him in a full game. The multiple steps ahead thing should be evident. Chess vs. Checkers. Crosby's game is ultimately the epitome of high hockey IQ in both forms.

In this draft Rossi and Perfetti have the best anticipatory IQ. They are not ranked higher because Rossi is short and Perfetti needs to refine technical skills(skating). Also I put franchise in quotes because I feel like that specifically connotates a generational talent.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I don't believe IQ is measurable as much as it is noticeable. It is not easy to detect watching highlight clips. You need to analyze the players entire shift in a sample size of as many games as possible.

Hanging in the weeds and picking off passes is a form of high hockey IQ, which is the reason why I don't think any one that is moderately knowledgeable about hockey believes that Byfield has a low IQ. That form of IQ is what I would label reactionary Hockey IQ. Being able to recognize and take advantage of opportunities as they present themselves. That combined with Byfields strong positioning(anticipatory) and excellent vision(both depending on scenario) make his overall IQ on the higher end of the spectrum, which combined with his elite technical skills easily translates to top 10 talent.

The critique on Byfield is not that he has a poor IQ, but that in the other form of IQ Byfield is not off the charts to the degree of... well... a "franchise" player. The form of IQ not off the charts is what I would label as anticipatory IQ. This does pertain to the defensive side, but typically I give it more weight towards offense. Off the puck is an important component and that is truthfully an area Byfield's IQ is very high. Players with the highest anticipatory IQ operate on a level where their brain is multiple steps ahead. It is really just the extent a player understands/processes the game and is able to predict then create outcomes. They rarely if ever make the wrong read or turn the puck over. Most importantly play seems to gravitate around them. Not only are they good, but people on their line benefit just from being around them. Crosby and Gretzky have the highest anticipatory IQ ever. Seriously, it is very hard to describe but just watch and analyze sidney crosby in any game he's played since 07-08. Not his highlights, him in a full game. The multiple steps ahead thing should be evident. Chess vs. Checkers. Crosby's game is ultimately the epitome of high hockey IQ in both forms.

In this draft Rossi and Perfetti have the best anticipatory IQ. They are not ranked higher because Rossi is short and Perfetti needs to refine technical skills(skating). Also I put franchise in quotes because I feel like that specifically connotates a generational talent.

You're essentially looking for the perfect hockey player though if you want another Crosby or Gretzky, which comes around once every decade or so. That is essentially what the Scouching Report touched on as well when discussing the criticisms about Byfield's game (which he also thinks is nonsense). Misguided people passing judgement are pretty much looking for the perfect player without any flaws in teenagers who are probably years away from reaching their potential.

Here's another way to break down this draft since we're looking at it in tiers:
Who is the other player being mentioned as a potential #1 pick if the Rangers were to pursuit a player who addresses not only a need, but plays one of the most important positions on the ice? The answer to that question is Byfield. If this is a guy whose name has been suggested as a possible first overall selection, one would think that it's a safe assumption this is a player who would be a homerun pick at #2.

 

[VILARGOD]

I live in LA and had close friends in the Kings organization from 2005 to late 2007, I remember hearing after the draft that

Dean Lombardi had Logan Couture and Thomas Hickey as his top 2 leading into draft day. And the night before, he decided it with a coin flip. No joke.

Edit: I was told this before I even knew who Logan Couture was as I wasn't following hockey that closely at the time. I did know who Thomas Hickey was because the Kings selected him

 

[DoktorJeep]

On ice and video coaching can teach a kid how to learn opponent tendencies and anticipate plays better. By all accounts QB is dedicated to his craft and praised by his coaches. He can learn how to read plays and use his size to his advantage as he naturally progresses.

 

[KINGS17]

I live in LA and had close friends in the Kings organization from 2005 to late 2007, I remember hearing after the draft that

Dean Lombardi had Logan Couture and Thomas Hickey as his top 2 leading into draft day. And the night before, he decided it with a coin flip. No joke.

Edit: I was told this before I even knew who Logan Couture was as I wasn't following hockey that closely at the time. I did know who Thomas Hickey was because the Kings selected him

Should have listened to the other 10 scouts.