Who are your Top 10 Forwards next season?
- Thread starter Ben Grimm
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Cats2TheCup
Registered User
Let the fans disagree. Barkov is sleeping with a Stanley Cup in Finland right now.
- Jan 13, 2023
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Felidae
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- Sep 30, 2016
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Right.. like when Barkov won the selke in 2020 with Bobrovsky sporting a .906sv%, good for 33th best in the league out of 60 goalies that played more than 14 games...
IdleTraveller
Registered User
OK, this is actually a serious question here as I'm relatively new to HF Boards. Leaving aside the fact that the Panthers won the cup [team effort, Bob, blah blah blah], Barkov won his second Selke this year and I didn't see much chatter on here about that award not being deserved. And yet, he doesn't make the lists of a lot of people's top ten.
Is this a common issue that players who win Selkes are not automatically considered top ten forwards in the years that they won, in the way that players that win the Hart/Art Ross/Rocket Richard are? Was this an issue with Bergeron and Kopitar in the past, or is there something about Barkov in particular or the market he plays in?
Is this a common issue that players who win Selkes are not automatically considered top ten forwards in the years that they won, in the way that players that win the Hart/Art Ross/Rocket Richard are? Was this an issue with Bergeron and Kopitar in the past, or is there something about Barkov in particular or the market he plays in?
"Barkov is Top40 max" , "Barkov is overrated" and "Selke`s dont mean shit".... 
I bet Viola&Maurice sleep pretty good this summer having such a shitty player to captain their team! I bet that Panarin, Hughes, Kaprizov and Matthews are more impactful players.
I bet Viola&Maurice sleep pretty good this summer having such a shitty player to captain their team! I bet that Panarin, Hughes, Kaprizov and Matthews are more impactful players.
I don't see any subjective award as a guarantee a player is top 10 at their position. Of course it's likely they are but there are always exceptions, even with Hart I am not certain I would have had Hall in my top 10 for forwards the season after. Selke is certainly a step down, if not two, from Hart. Art Ross/Richard are objective stats based awards and a clearer indication in my mind.
Can't remember the seasons other players had around the time Kopitar/Toews got their Selke's well enough to tell if they were top 10 or not.
Now Barkov? He is fringe top 10 for me, certainly behind McDavid, Draisaitl, Kucherov, MacKinnon, Matthews, Pastrnak and then there is a group of like 5-10 players that's interchangeable. If Barkov and, say, Kaprizov switched teams I am not so certain that Panthers would suffer.
1: McDavid
2: MacKinnon
3: Kucherov
4: Pasta
5: Matthews
6: Kaprizov
7: Barkov
8: Draisaitl
9: Matthew Tkatchuk
10: Bedard
No Panarin, feel like this season was an outlier and that he's a candidate to take an age related setback. I'm thinking Bedard hits 100 points if he's healthy with the added depth on the Hawks. HM to Forsberg, could have an elite season with Stamkos feeding him.
2: MacKinnon
3: Kucherov
4: Pasta
5: Matthews
6: Kaprizov
7: Barkov
8: Draisaitl
9: Matthew Tkatchuk
10: Bedard
No Panarin, feel like this season was an outlier and that he's a candidate to take an age related setback. I'm thinking Bedard hits 100 points if he's healthy with the added depth on the Hawks. HM to Forsberg, could have an elite season with Stamkos feeding him.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
It's pretty common for Selke award winners.
Very few Selke winners are among the league-leaders in offence (because they sacrifice offence for defence?) and it's still fairly subjective to judge a player's defensive contributions. It's getting better with advanced stats but the team defence/goaltending/overall performance can all have a pretty major impact.
As a reputational award, it can take awhile for the media to recognize a player's defensive play, and even then, there's a sort of PPG threshold that generally has to be met even before being considered for the award.
Similar to the Norris trophy, you don't have defensively focused forwards winning it very often anymore (since the early 2000s with Madden, Draper, Peca), so it becomes this "does he have enough points to be considered and how long has he been recognized for his two-way play" kind of award.
The same debate with Barkov happened with Kopitar and Bergeron, depending on how much the individual values their two-way performance and how much their defensive abilities offset the discrepancy in offence.
McDavid
MacKinnon
Barkov
Matthews
Kucherov
Draisaitl
Pasta
Hughes
M. Tkatchuk
Rantanen
MacKinnon
Barkov
Matthews
Kucherov
Draisaitl
Pasta
Hughes
M. Tkatchuk
Rantanen
1: McDavid
2: MacKinnon
3: Kucherov
4: Pasta
5: Matthews
6: Thompson
7: Barkov
8: Draisaitl
9: Matthew Tkatchuk
10: Hughes
Not specifically in order I guess. is this points only?
I have high hopes for Tage this year. Not this high but it's possible and I am going to go with it. Especially if he is the previous Tage and not last year.
2: MacKinnon
3: Kucherov
4: Pasta
5: Matthews
6: Thompson
7: Barkov
8: Draisaitl
9: Matthew Tkatchuk
10: Hughes
Not specifically in order I guess. is this points only?
I have high hopes for Tage this year. Not this high but it's possible and I am going to go with it. Especially if he is the previous Tage and not last year.
Cats2TheCup
Registered User
You do realize the Panthers defeated teams with better goalies than Bob on their road to become Stanley Cup Champions over the Edmonton Oilers? Ya couldn’t beat Bob?
Spoiler Alert: Ya wouldn’t have beaten Shesterkin, Vasilevskiy or Swayman either.
How many dinners do Oilers fans owe Bob for being a cope security blanket?
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- Jun 22, 2018
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Ridiculous and salty, Barkov is absolutely a top 10 player
My 7 through 10 would look like this:
7- Rantanen
8- Forsberg
9- Guentzel
10- Kaprizov
Forgot Kaprizov
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- Jan 13, 2023
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coping so hard you're making up terms lmao. Barkov is the only forward on these lists whose value depends on how well his goalie plays.
they're not my lists
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Cats2TheCup
Registered User
At least we agree can agree that with the Stanley Cup on the line in a game 7:
Barkov + Bobrovsky > McDavid + Draisaitl.
- Jan 13, 2023
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The only thing I know is that Barkov owes Bob half of this year's take-home.
Cats2TheCup
Registered User
If you think the Panthers could have won the Stanley Cup without Barkov, that’s hilarious.
In reality, Captain Selke winner Stanley Cup champion, Barkov and the Panthers would have defeated McDavid with any of the goalies they beat in the Eastern Conference. Enjoy the warmth of your Bob Cope blanket.
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Meh, hockey's a team sport and he fits with that group, but it's not like you could have inserted him in at 1C on any other team and made them better. Why's he been left off so many lists?
JT Miller should be on these lists. Top 10 in scoring and plays a much more complete game than most of these guys.
Cats2TheCup
Registered User
You really don’t think Rangers and Bruins would be better if Barkov was their 1C instead?
He’s been left off lists because his skillset requires more than just “pt totals” to evaluate him. He’s a mastermind on the ice on many levels. Most fans of other teams don’t watch him play enough to recognize it.
Dread Clawz
LAWSonic Boom
He's still the best two-way forward in the league. He could score 100 easily if he just focused on scoring.
nucks88
Registered User
K1900L
Registered User
- Dec 27, 2019
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If playoffs included:
1) Connor McDavid
2) Leon Draisaitl
3) Nathan MacKinnon
4) Nikita Kucherov
5) David Pastrnak
6) Auston Matthews
7) Aleksander Barkov
8) Matthew Tkachuk
9) J. T. Miller
10a) Tim Stützle (my wild guess, could end up not being in the top 20 as well, but I have the feeling he could crack the 100 points next year if healthy)
10b) Mikko Rantanen
1) Connor McDavid
2) Leon Draisaitl
3) Nathan MacKinnon
4) Nikita Kucherov
5) David Pastrnak
6) Auston Matthews
7) Aleksander Barkov
8) Matthew Tkachuk
9) J. T. Miller
10a) Tim Stützle (my wild guess, could end up not being in the top 20 as well, but I have the feeling he could crack the 100 points next year if healthy)
10b) Mikko Rantanen
