Who are your Top 10 Forwards next season?

[waitin425]

Cool appeal to authority.

Being good at playing hockey =/= being able to analyze talent.

And pro athletes are often the most narrative driven, biased sources out there.

It's not shocking a league filled with players who grew up watching prime Crosby, still hold him in high regard defensively despite his defensive play dropping off lately

Never change. If you think you are better positioned to evaluate talent then the guys who actually play against each other, then by all means, evaluate away.

I for one recognize I am a fan, who likes what I see, believes in players passing the eyetl test, reads a little bit of stats here and there, and ultimately recognizes I know shit about nothing compared the professionals who play, evaluate, manage and coach these teams

You do you buddy.

 

[GreeningOil]

If the reigning Selke Winning, Stanley Cup Champion doesn’t make your top 10 forwards list…lmao

Barkov is legit. I agree wit yah.

Where do you see him?

 

[NVious]

McDavid
Drai
Mack
Kuch
Barkov
Matthews
Rantanen
Pasta
Miller
Crosby

 

[dgibb10]

Never change. If you think you are better positioned to evaluate talent then the guys who actually play against each other, then by all means, evaluate away.

I for one recognize I am a fan, who likes what I see, believes in players passing the eyetl test, reads a little bit of stats here and there, and ultimately recognizes I know shit about nothing compared the professionals who play, evaluate, manage and coach these teams

You do you buddy.

See, you threw in "evaluate, manage, and coach these teams". We weren't talking about any such people.

We were talking about NHL hockey PLAYERS. They are professionals at playing hockey. Not at evaluating hockey players. And again, they are often quite awful at evaluating hockey players.

They are not professionals at evaluating hockey talent.

Just curious, who overrides who? Does your opinion get more weight for each goal you score?

Do retired players have more accurate input? Less?

How about Coaches vs Players? Coaches vs GMs? GMs vs Scouts?

 

[waitin425]

See, you threw in "evaluate, manage, and coach these teams". We weren't talking about any such people.

We were talking about NHL hockey PLAYERS. They are professionals at playing hockey. Not at evaluating hockey players. And again, they are often quite awful at evaluating hockey players.

They are not professionals at evaluating hockey talent.

Just curious, who overrides who? Does your opinion get more weight for each goal you score?

Do retired players have more accurate input? Less?

How about Coaches vs Players? Coaches vs GMs? GMs vs Scouts?

who overrides who? collectively they override us.

 

[dgibb10]

who overrides who? collectively they override us.

Glad to hear you agree that Ivan Demidov is a worse prospect than Sennecke, Lindstrom, and Leveshunov.

Because clearly you know nothing compared to all the professional scouts, evaluators, coaches, and GMs employed by Anaheim, Chicago, and Columbus.

 

[T REX]

weird seeing kuch so low on some lists

bizarre

 

[CupofOil]

I rate Barkov very highly because of his superb defense, and proving that he is a winner, and leader of a winning team. I might pick him over everyone But McDavid if i had to start a team. Points are great, but not everything. Having said that, and not married to this order;

Kuch(Great, but aging)

He just had a 144 point season with 100 assists which hadn't been done in over 30 years and was 2nd in Hart voting, I don't see much aging there. Kucherov continues to be one of the most underrated players in the league somehow evidenced by seeing all these rankings of him in the 5-7 range. He's no worse than 4th best forward in the league.

 

[57special]

He just had a 144 point season with 100 assists which hadn't been done in I don't know how long and was 2nd in Hart voting, I don't see much aging there. Kucherov continues to be one of the most underrated players in the league somehow evidenced by seeing all these rankings of him in the 5-7 range. He's no worse than 4th best forward in the league.

I know, but it's about the upcoming season, not last season, and Kucherov is hitting that age that tends to bite many players. You're probably right, though.

 

[T REX]

I know, but it's about the upcoming season, not last season, and Kucherov is hitting that age that tends to bite many players. You're probably right, though.

He doesn't rely on pure speed like McDavid or Mack. Kuch is, by far, the most cerebral player in the league.

He isn't fast or big. He's 3 or 4 steps ahead of everyone on the ice. I think his game will age well. JMHO

 

[CupofOil]

I know, but it's about the upcoming season, not last season, and Kucherov is hitting that age that tends to bite many players. You're probably right, though.

True since we're talking about next season but I guess it was the aging comment that I contested. He could start regressing soon but it's not like he's THAT old.
Either way, he's a machine so I have a hard time ranking him below 3. People talk about a 2nd tier of 2-5 but I actually think it's the McDavid tier then the MacKinnon and Kucherov tier then the Draisaitl and Matthews tier so more of a 1 then 2-3 then 4-5, tempted to add Pasta to the 4-5 tier.

 

[SillyRabbit]

I think Mitch Marner will be a top 10 forward this upcoming season.

 

[CascadiaPuck]

I find the lack of JT Miller from many of these lists odd. And the higher number of EP40 appearances. I think Pettersson can and will show us more. But Miller has been delivering consistent high play for a few years now. Seems some are sleeping on him.

 

[waitin425]

Glad to hear you agree that Ivan Demidov is a worse prospect than Sennecke, Lindstrom, and Leveshunov.

Because clearly you know nothing compared to all the professional scouts, evaluators, coaches, and GMs employed by Anaheim, Chicago, and Columbus.

You were arguing against a players poll naming Crosby. Claiming it means nothing what the players think. That you know better.

And you think you can draw an equivalency between that and the most recent draft?

Trying to bait me into some sort of aha moment on that point?

What a joke.

 

[bobholly39]

weird seeing kuch so low on some lists

bizarre

Yeah.

I had him at #2 - but the worst you can probably argue is #4. McDavid is easily ahead - with MacKinnon it's 50/50, and I figure you can probably argue Drai above him if you really want to. Matthews is similar tier, but I'd slot him behind. So 2-4 for Kucherov.

This one post on the first page had him listed 7. Makes no sense.

Malkin used to get highly underrated by the hockey world - but he was always correctly rated on HF.
I feel like Kucherov has one-up'd Malkin. He gets underrated by both the hockey world and HF. It's weird.

 

[Pucklington]

McDavid
Draisaitl
Hyman
Skinner
Nugent-Hopkins
Arvidsson
MacKinnon
Pasta
Matthews
Jeannott

 

[dgibb10]

You were arguing against a players poll naming Crosby. Claiming it means nothing what the players think. That you know better.

And you think you can draw an equivalency between that and the most recent draft?

Trying to bait me into some sort of aha moment on that point?

What a joke.

No I'm using a different appeal to authority to show you just how stupid that line of thinking is.

If you can't make your own opinions, that's on you.

Just because a person is good at playing hockey does not mean they are an expert in evaluating talent.

 

[waitin425]

No I'm using a different appeal to authority to show you just how stupid that line of thinking is.

If you can't make your own opinions, that's on you.

Just because a person is good at playing hockey does not mean they are an expert in evaluating talent.

Just so I'm clear. Your assertion is that you are a better judge of talent then a polling of NHL players. That's where this all started.

I just want to make sure I understand. Once again.

You believe that you are better positioned to judge talent then NHL players.

 

[dgibb10]

Just so I'm clear. Your assertion is that you are a better judge of talent then a polling of NHL players. That's where this all started.

I just want to make sure I understand. Once again.

You believe that you are better positioned to judge talent then NHL players.

I believe NHL players are often filled with bias, and clouded by narratives rather than truths. I am not shocked at all that a bunch of players who grew up watching prime Sidney Crosby still hold a lot of respect for him even as his two way play has declined as he ages.

Especially when the last quick and easy answer to that question retired last year.

Crosby doesn't kill penalties, that's a very easy part of a complete game that crosby does not currently possess.

And you think you are more qualified to judge hockey talent than the front offices and scouting departments of Anaheim, chicago, and Columbus? Those guys are actually paid to evaluate talent. NHLers aren't.

 

[waitin425]

And you think you are more qualified to judge hockey talent than the front offices and scouting departments of Anaheim, chicago, and Columbus? Those guys are actually paid to evaluate talent. NHLers aren't.

When did I say this? LMAO! Go check out my responses in the Generational Talent poll between Bedard, Celebrini, Michkov and Demidov.

Grow up man. Bottom line. Feel free to think your opinion from behind your computer screen is better than a consensus of NHL players. I'm done arguing with you about this point.

 

[dgibb10]

When did I say this? LMAO! Go check out my responses in the Generational Talent poll between Bedard, Celebrini, Michkov and Demidov.

Grow up man. Bottom line. Feel free to think your opinion from behind your computer screen is better than a consensus of NHL players. I'm done arguing with you about this point.

Do you think Demidov is a better prospect than Sennecke, Lindstrom, and Levshunov?

NHL players again, are paid to PLAY hockey, they are not paid to evaluate hockey talent.

If you don't have any opinions of your own, that's okay to admit.

 

[waitin425]

Do you think Demidov is a better prospect than Sennecke, Lindstrom, and Levshunov?

NHL players again, are paid to PLAY hockey, they are not paid to evaluate hockey talent.

If you don't have any opinions of your own, that's okay to admit.

How the f*** can you draw an equivalency between the fact that one team valued a junior aged player over another and a consensus of NHL players voting Crosby? Do you understand what a consensus means? If the draft order was different, the selections could have been different.

You are trying to bait me into saying Demidov, as if it will somehow prove that ridiculous point you are trying to make. If you wanted to use the draft as your point, the closest thing would have been to share Bob's pre-draft ranking, which is as close to a consensus as we can get. Ironically, Demidov was number #2 on his list which is a bigger evaluation group then just one team.

I will answer your question for fun, even though it proves jack shit.....

My pre-draft ranking was

1. Celebrini
2. Dickinson
3. Levshunov
4. Demidov
5. Lindstrom

But.....I know nothing and don't pretend to. Are you 12 years old?

If I bump into an NHL player at a local bar and ask him who the best forwards in the NHL are, and then decide to debate his opinion as if I have a smarter opinion, I would look like a big f***ing idiot.

If a consensus if NHL players are voting Crosby as a top 10 forward in the NHL, then it has some credibility. Is it gospel? no. But it certainly means a hell of a lot more than anyone of us.

Get off your high horse man. None of us in here (except for maybe a handful of us) are just fans. We have opinions, we share our opinions, we discuss our opinions, but ultimately, we have no knowledge compared to the players who play the game every single day.

If you want to believe otherwise, then that's your prerogative.

 

[filinski77]

His own peers voted Crosby the #1 most complete player in the league just a few months ago.

You honestly put stock into that? NHL players are lazy with this type of thing, and don't put nearly as much effort into assessing stuff as we do for fun.

In 2020 they voted Price as the best goalie in the league, even though he was 3 years removed from being a top-3, and 5 years removed from being the best goalie in the league.

In 2021 they voted Backstrom as the best passer in the league, despite not finishing top-10 in assists in any of the previous 4 seasons.

Crosby had a bad defensive season last year. And also: How could he be more complete than a guy like Matthews, who is a significantly better offensive player, and a much better defensive player too. Or a guy like Barkov, who is only slightly behind Crosby offensively, but miles better defensively?

 

[bobholly39]

I left Jack Hughes off my top 10 list I posted because I simply forgot about him.

I could see him rise a lot this year though.

Also- if we're talking predictions for next year rather than where said player deserves to be ranked as of right now - I'm very curious to see if Bedard makes it. Both McDavid and Crosby swept awards in year 2. I wonder if Bedard has something similar in-store for us. And even if he doesn't do quite as well - just getting cloae to leaders would already be huge.

 

[bobholly39]

You honestly put stock into that? NHL players are lazy with this type of thing, and don't put nearly as much effort into assessing stuff as we do for fun.

In 2020 they voted Price as the best goalie in the league, even though he was 3 years removed from being a top-3, and 5 years removed from being the best goalie in the league.

In 2021 they voted Backstrom as the best passer in the league, despite not finishing top-10 in assists in any of the previous 4 seasons.

Crosby had a bad defensive season last year. And also: How could he be more complete than a guy like Matthews, who is a significantly better offensive player, and a much better defensive player too. Or a guy like Barkov, who is only slightly behind Crosby offensively, but miles better defensively?

In 2020 players voted Price the best goalie in the league because he was - which he proved in the 2021 playoffs.

A lot of these votes are reputation influenced for sure - but they are still based on a large degree of truth.