Who are your top 10 defenseman next season?

[norrisnick]

Dollar General. Lol.

Great Value?

 

[Machinehead]

Most posts here don't even have Forsling listed. Just as Barkov in the forwards thread

Right, because it's top 10 lol. He's probably 11-15.

I'd be surprised if 1 out of 10 people on this site don't have Barkov as a top 10 player.

 

[Machinehead]

Great Value?

I'm good with it. I heard "Nick Lidstrom." That's all I need to know.

 

[Regal]

Nothing you've said here suggests Oilers fans "wildly overrating", and there is a pretty wide gulf between "good" and "Hasek-like". I think you're moving goalposts a tad. A truly Silovsian feat.

Wtf are you talking about? Nothing in my post “suggests” Oilers fans were wildly overrating him because that wasn’t the crux of what I was talking about and is a minor footnote you’ve harped on for some reason. The posts are there in the series threads for you to gander at your own convenience. I don’t give enough of a shit to convince you that it was a pretty widespread opinion but this entire exchange has been stupid af. I don’t even believe you know what moving goalposts means if you think it applies in this context. Yea there’s a wide gulf between “good” and “Hasek-like”. That’s the whole point. Hence the “some fans wildly overrate him”.

 

[Ninety7]

Bouchard has a tendency to make some bone head plays and poor defensive plays, so I can see why people don’t have him higher in lists. If he repeats his season it’ll be hard to leave him off these top 10’s going forward

I can also see how Canucks fans seethe with anger when Bouchard is brought up. Their boy got taken to school by him in the big games.

 

[QJL]

1. Cale Makax
2. Adam Fon
3. Miro Heiskanes
4. Quinn Hughei
5. Roman Josy
6. Charlie McAvon
7. Victor Hedmag
8. Gustav Forslinn
9. Rasmus Dahlid
10. Evan Bouchar?

 

[Dread Clawz]

Right, because it's top 10 lol. He's probably 11-15.

I'd be surprised if 1 out of 10 people on this site don't have Barkov as a top 10 player.

No, he's top 10. That's alright, the Panthers will keep winning Cups with our overrated players.

 

[leafs in five]

Bouch will win the Norris

 

[AvroArrow]

No, 2024

Who's under rating Barkov in 2024 lmao

 

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

Wtf are you talking about? Nothing in my post “suggests” Oilers fans were wildly overrating him because that wasn’t the crux of what I was talking about and is a minor footnote you’ve harped on for some reason. The posts are there in the series threads for you to gander at your own convenience. I don’t give enough of a shit to convince you that it was a pretty widespread opinion but this entire exchange has been stupid af. I don’t even believe you know what moving goalposts means if you think it applies in this context. Yea there’s a wide gulf between “good” and “Hasek-like”. That’s the whole point. Hence the “some fans wildly overrate him”.

It was the crux of the post that I originally responded to:
Who are your top 10 defenseman next season?

But, you're obviously not having a good time here, so...farewell?

 

[Dread Clawz]

Who's under rating Barkov in 2024 lmao

Crazily enough, in the top 10 forwards thread

 

[CanadienShark]

In very rough order:

1. Makar
2. Fox
3. Hughes
4. Josi
5. Heiskanen
6. McAvoy
7. Hedman
8. Slavin
9. Bouchard
10. Dahlin

HM: Morrissey, Forsling, Toews, Dobson

 

[TheOrangeDesk]

The difference was wildly overrated by Oilers fans. Silovs made some big stops but he also really struggled with a lot unscreened point shots including a number of Bouchard’s. He actually gave up 2.91 goals more than expected according to NaturalStatTrick, whereas the Oilers goalies combined gave up 1.06 goals more than expected.

Game 1
Canucks 57.14% CF% and won. Deservedly so, especially with oilers not playing second half

Game 2
Canucks had 38% CF% and lost but silovs dragged them to an OT they had no business being in

Game 3
Canucks had 28.6% CF% and won. Won a game despite oilers having the puck the entire game

Game 4
Canuck’s had 41.2% CF% and lost. Oilers with slightly better possession

Game 5
Canucks had 60.34% CF$ and won. By far Canuck’s best game of the series

Game 6
Canucks had 36% SF%. This was silovs worst game of the series and drags his numbers down t but the oilers dominated this game and silovs was not canucks biggest issue

Game 7
Canucks had 37% SF% and lost. Canucks were dominated until the last 10 minutes where they made a desperate push

If you want to look at HDCF% tells a very similar story.

The reason for this narrative is, out of the 3 games canucks won, only 2 were because their skaters played better. 3 of the oilers wins they absolutely dominated Canuck’s in shots and the other win had slightly more shots than the Canucks. If the goaltenders switched teams its likely a sweep

 

[the_fan]

1. Cale Makax
2. Adam Fon
3. Miro Heiskanes
4. Quinn Hughei
5. Roman Josy
6. Charlie McAvon
7. Victor Hedmag
8. Gustav Forslinn
9. Rasmus Dahlid
10. Evan Bouchar?

I want some of whatever you’re on!

 

[Breakers]

Bouchard has a tendency to make some bone head plays and poor defensive plays, so I can see why people don’t have him higher in lists. If he repeats his season it’ll be hard to leave him off these top 10’s going forward

I can also see how Canucks fans seethe with anger when Bouchard is brought up. Their boy got taken to school by him in the big games.

Which one has a norris again?

 

[Boxscore]

Not for anything, but seeing names such as Slavin and Forsling on these Top-10 lists is crazy to me. The way the game is being played these days, mobile defensemen who produce high-end offense while playing very good defense, may be the most important players to a team's success outside of an elite 1C.

Slavin and Forsling do not produce enough offense (37 and 39 points) to be considered Top-10 all-around D in today's game. Granted, these guys are very good in their own end but we're not talking about Rod Langway or Chris Pronger here.

For example, there's zero chance (maybe less than zero) that the Islanders would trade Noah Dobson for Slavin or Forsling.

 

[TheOrangeDesk]

This is even more prevalent when both Hughes and Bouchard were on the ice, where Bouchard had 4 goals despite an individual expected goals of just over 1. He was also on the ice for over 3 more goals in the series than expected, whereas Hughes was on the ice for 3.5 goals fewer than expected. The Oilers were scoring on 15% of their shots at ES when Bouchard was on the ice. The idea that Silov’s was an advantage when it comes to comparing Hughes and Bouchard’s series’ just isn’t true statistically

In this paragraph you start by saying outperforming your expected goals is a bad thing and then you go on to show underperformed your expected goals against is a bad thing lol. Make up your mind

 

[belair]

If Hughes were on Edmonton he would have gotten 100+ points.

The weakness in Quinn Hughes game is the reason why this isn't factual. Bouchard's shot is lethal.

 

[norrisnick]

Not for anything, but seeing names such as Slavin and Forsling on these Top-10 lists is crazy to me. The way the game is being played these days, mobile defensemen who produce high-end offense while playing very good defense, may be the most important players to a team's success outside of an elite 1C.

Slavin and Forsling do not produce enough offense (37 and 39 points) to be considered Top-10 all-around D in today's game. Granted, these guys are very good in their own end but we're not talking about Rod Langway or Chris Pronger here.

For example, there's zero chance (maybe less than zero) that the Islanders would trade Noah Dobson for Slavin or Forsling.

They are better offensively than some of the names ahead of them are defensively.

You can't be mediocre to terrible in your own end and still be considered a top-10 all-around D.

 

[Siludin]

The weakness in Quinn Hughes game is the reason why this isn't factual. Bouchard's shot is lethal.

*raises eyebrows*

 

[Dread Clawz]

They are better offensively than some of the names ahead of them are defensively.

You can't be mediocre to terrible in your own end and still be considered a top-10 all-around D.

I can also say there's zero chance Zito would trade Forsling for Dobson. Amazing that Forsling just won the Cup and was a top 5 player for Florida, yet people are treating him like some jobber.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

I can also say there's zero chance Zito would trade Forsling for Dobson. Amazing that Forsling just won the Cup and was a top 5 player for Florida, yet people are treating him like some jobber.

Forsling is not some jobbing cobbler but he may not be considered a top 10 defenseman at this time, however Gustav should be well within everyone’s top 15 as he should deservedly be after the performance he displayed in the post season.

 

[LuckyBoeser]

As someone who throughout Bouchard's career been down on him, he admittedly has proven me wrong. Is Bouchard in an ideal situation? Sure. But I do not think you can deny the elite offensive instincts, high-end passing and shooting he possesses. Definitely can say he maximized his potential when looking at projections during his draft year.

Saying Bouchard is a product of his teammates and using that to completely discredit his status of a higher end defenseman seems a bit disingenuous imo. The reality is Bouchard have put up elite results. Saying he wouldn't do that elsewhere are only projections. I am more interested in analyzing what he done not what might happen in a different situation.

 

[McPoyle]

This is even more prevalent when both Hughes and Bouchard were on the ice, where Bouchard had 4 goals despite an individual expected goals of just over 1. He was also on the ice for over 3 more goals in the series than expected, whereas Hughes was on the ice for 3.5 goals fewer than expected. The Oilers were scoring on 15% of their shots at ES when Bouchard was on the ice. The idea that Silov’s was an advantage when it comes to comparing Hughes and Bouchard’s series’ just isn’t true statistically

I absolutely love Nucks fans citing PDO and luck after the season their team just had. Just perfect.

 

[SaltNPeca]

I like how people are crapping on Dahlin who had 59 pts which was tied for his team lead. Meanwhile Bouchard plays with 2 of the top 5ish players in the league as teammates. Switch them and Dahlin imo is looking far superior to Bouchard. Expecting a defenceman to do really well offensively while playing on a team that produced lower top end pt totals is silly. 59 pts is still a great season for most defenceman.

The only defender who had similar teammate production was Morrissey but WPG being a playoff team is better than non playoff team Buffalo. The rest all have far superior teammates to help get more pts.

Gotta love HFBoards logic and rankings, Bouchard should be punished and de-ranked due to :

• QB-ing the greatest PP of all time
• Leading his team, as a Top 2 D-man, to the SCF Game 7
• Leading all Playoff defenders in scoring, by double the points of #2 (Heiskanen 16 Points) with 32 Points
  • Forsling, Montour, Ekholm, & Kulak all SCF D-men with 8-13 points total
    
• Going >1 Point/game in the reg season, finishing 3rd in NHL Season scoring for defensemen

^
None of that is about his potential, it is about his actual results last season as a 24 year-old

But definitely put Dobson, Dahlin, and X up there
I'm sure "if they only played on Edmonton", they'd have >1 points/game seasons, led the Oilers to the finals, and scored >30 points