Which team has a better rebuild? Habs vs Red Wings?

[Jack Skellington]

He lost virtually 2 years of development in what would be his draft year and draft plus 1 year. So, he's probably going to need a little more time in the A, which is why I didn't include him as I was just looking at the upcoming season in terms of Dman spots. So, he may get there, but not nearly as close to how far along Edvinsson is at now. Now, he does play the RHD and that is the less crowded side of the Habs D group with Barron and Reinbacher as prospects on that side, while the LHD side is way more crowded with Guhle, Harris, X, Struble, and Hutson competing for spots next season.

Not that I put too much weight into it (Poehling), but he did get a game at the end of the season and he looked very good, plus the Habs traded Kovacevic, who was probably occupying his spot. We'll see what happens but I think they're leaving the door open for him or Reinbacher, and I'd lean towards Mailloux. Barron is the guy who is there as a fallback if neither seem ready. I don't think they want to keep Guhle playing RD for much longer so I expect one of Struble or Harris to be moved when one of the younger guys make the step.

 

[Jack Skellington]

The Wings have done a much better job at getting a surrounding cast to help the young players along. Debrincat, Compher, Copp, Kane, Tarasenko, Gustafsson, Petry, Husso, Talbot, Lyon, etc. The Wings are aggressive in pushing this roster in talented players and depth. The Canadiens are selling off guys still. Oddly enough several of those veterans that they sold are on the Wings

Well yeah Montreal has really been rebuilding since the Slafkovsky draft in 2021. It makes sense to not clog their roster with stop gaps at the expense of playing time for young players. It's been made very clear that Hughes will start dipping into that pool when he deems it be the right time, which looks to be the season after this one. I would say Detroits rebuild is anywhere from 2-4 years ahead of MTL in terms of timeline.

These are certainly not perfect comparables but I would say in general, the Detroit guys seem a little bit older than their comparable? Obv like Hutson isn't younger than ASP but again just generally speaking.

Larkin - Suzuki
Cat - Caufield
Raymond - Demidov
Seider - Guhle
Edvinsson - Reinbacher
ASP - Hutson
Not sure who Slafkovsky would compare to, and then both teams have a healthy amount of solid prospects like Kasper, Danielson, Mailloux, Roy, etc. etc.

 

[GoBoltz56]

Hard to compare Detroit to other orgs when they have all gotten top picks with lottery "luck" and Detroit hasn't.

 

[Mr Positive]

Hard to compare Detroit to other orgs when they have all gotten top picks with lottery "luck" and Detroit hasn't.

Luck would be allowed into the comparison imo. It's about how well the rebuild is going. The quality of the young guys coming in counts. It's not all about the quality of the decision making

 

[raymond23]

Your kidding yourself if you dont think that landing Stutzle would have been MASSIVE boost for the Red Wings and their rebuild.

Him playing and developing behind Larkin as the #2C would have dynamically changed the look of that roster and core. And not to mention that he and Seider are best buddies and spend the offseason together, which would have helped to generate some good vibes during some dark times.

Raymond is a good player, but even after last season (a mega down year for Tim who played hurt most of the season), Raymond is just not in the same tier of player as Stutzle, who is easily the most talented player on any one of the Wings, Habs, or Sens rosters.

1. Larkin (who played hurt most of the season) is a better player than Stutzle at the moment
2. To confidently say that about Raymond after the 21 year old season he just had shows how little you've paid attention
3. Your best buddies point is weird... that's exactly what Mo and Lucas do already anyways
4. You should watch Raymond more because you have no idea what you're talking about in regards to Detroit players (no offense)

 

[saska sault]

Is a mega down year from a player his 2nd highest point total of his 4 year career?

 

[StreetHawk]

1. Larkin (who played hurt most of the season) is a better player than Stutzle at the moment
2. To confidently say that about Raymond after the 21 year old season he just had shows how little you've paid attention
3. Your best buddies point is weird... that's exactly what Mo and Lucas do already anyways
4. You should watch Raymond more because you have no idea what you're talking about in regards to Detroit players (no offense)

The talent level between Stutzle & Raymond is about equal. Main difference is their position, which in the NHL is a big deal between a C and W.

 

[Washed Up 29YearOld]

I'd rather build a team with Montreal's assets.

 

[MTL Dirty Birdy]

Well yeah Montreal has really been rebuilding since the Slafkovsky draft in 2021. It makes sense to not clog their roster with stop gaps at the expense of playing time for young players. It's been made very clear that Hughes will start dipping into that pool when he deems it be the right time, which looks to be the season after this one. I would say Detroits rebuild is anywhere from 2-4 years ahead of MTL in terms of timeline.

These are certainly not perfect comparables but I would say in general, the Detroit guys seem a little bit older than their comparable? Obv like Hutson isn't younger than ASP but again just generally speaking.

Larkin - Suzuki
Cat - Caufield
Raymond - Demidov
Seider - Guhle
Edvinsson - Reinbacher
ASP - Hutson
Not sure who Slafkovsky would compare to, and then both teams have a healthy amount of solid prospects like Kasper, Danielson, Mailloux, Roy, etc. etc.

As its been said, Slaf is a unicorn. Not many in the league will compare to him in the coming years

 

[Guess]

Definitely the Habs, if the Wings hadn't stopped the rebuild last season it would be much closer. Getting Demidov (and Hage) will be huge, and next season likely another top 10 pick.

 

[norrisnick]

Definitely the Habs, if the Wings hadn't stopped the rebuild last season it would be much closer. Getting Demidov (and Hage) will be huge, and next season likely another top 10 pick.

Nothing has stopped. I have doubts that Yzerman would have picked anyone other than Danielson and MBN the last couple years even if they were a couple spots further up in the draft. There is no way the Wings could have been bad enough to get the impact kids.

 

[Golden_Jet]

1. Larkin (who played hurt most of the season) is a better player than Stutzle at the moment
2. To confidently say that about Raymond after the 21 year old season he just had shows how little you've paid attention
3. Your best buddies point is weird... that's exactly what Mo and Lucas do already anyways
4. You should watch Raymond more because you have no idea what you're talking about in regards to Detroit players (no offense)

Stutzle played from game 4 with a wrist injury, and over half the season with a shoulder/neck injury, until they shut him down the last week or 2 in season.
It wasn’t just Larkin who had an injury.

 

[jellybeans]

This year Detroit in 5 years the Habs easily.

 

[Stephen]

Montreal's rebuild isn't really that in sync when you look at the age of someone like Nick Suzuki who is turning 25 and entering his prime now vs a cornerstone piece that was just drafted like Demidov who is 18. A 7 year age gap looks something like a Jordan Eberle (2008 draft) to a Connor McDavid (2015 draft) or something like Tyler Seguin (2010 draft) to a Jason Robertson/Miro Heiskanen (2017 draft) in Dallas. They're almost a half career apart when talking about age gaps and development timelines.

 

[HABitual Fan]

Montreal's rebuild isn't really that in sync when you look at the age of someone like Nick Suzuki who is turning 25 and entering his prime now vs a cornerstone piece that was just drafted like Demidov who is 18. A 7 year age gap looks something like a Jordan Eberle (2008 draft) to a Connor McDavid (2015 draft) or something like Tyler Seguin (2010 draft) to a Jason Robertson/Miro Heiskanen (2017 draft) in Dallas. They're almost a half career apart when talking about age gaps and development timelines.

You are not going to win with a team of 23 year olds, so you either develop your veterans internally, in your team culture, or you go the mercenary route later on, and run the risk of them upsetting it. Suzuki seems to be a fine leader on the ice, and I have little worries that he is not off the ice. He seems to embrace the role even with the younger players, as an example he was on the ice with the players at the development camp who are as you pointed out 7 years his junior.

 

[Oneiro]

They are both so far from relevance that it doesn't matter.

I think a large segment of both fanbases really don't seem to believe that they're still 5-6 years away from being anything close to a contender. Playoffs in that time? Sure. But a serious shot is going to need more talent.

 

[Warden of the North]

I'd probably take Montreal's. I don't either of them are particularly close to championship status though

 

[Perfect Human]

What defines the end of a rebuild? Making the playoffs? being in the playoffs for like 5 years in a row?

 

[Frank Drebin]

What defines the end of a rebuild? Making the playoffs? being in the playoffs for like 5 years in a row?

I imagine consistently making the playoffs
Actively trying to win

Montreal's rebuild isn't really that in sync when you look at the age of someone like Nick Suzuki who is turning 25 and entering his prime now vs a cornerstone piece that was just drafted like Demidov who is 18. A 7 year age gap looks something like a Jordan Eberle (2008 draft) to a Connor McDavid (2015 draft) or something like Tyler Seguin (2010 draft) to a Jason Robertson/Miro Heiskanen (2017 draft) in Dallas. They're almost a half career apart when talking about age gaps and development timelines.

hopefully Montreal is making noise in 5-7 years when Suzuki is 30-32 and demidov is 23-25

Seems fine to me

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Montreal's rebuild isn't really that in sync when you look at the age of someone like Nick Suzuki who is turning 25 and entering his prime now vs a cornerstone piece that was just drafted like Demidov who is 18. A 7 year age gap looks something like a Jordan Eberle (2008 draft) to a Connor McDavid (2015 draft) or something like Tyler Seguin (2010 draft) to a Jason Robertson/Miro Heiskanen (2017 draft) in Dallas. They're almost a half career apart when talking about age gaps and development timelines.

It's very much in sync. Suzuki was a mid 1st round pick. Those guys take years before becoming great nhl players. Demidov was a top 5 pick. Players drafted that high have much less development to do. In his d+2, Demidov could already be a 60 pts nhl player. In his d+3, he could be a ppg nhl player. So Suzuki could be 27 years old when Demidov is a ppg nhl player.

if Suzuki was entering his 23rd year old season this year, then it might be a little bit better, but its not much of a difference. Suzuki is a high iq player who doesn't really rely on skating or strength to produce. Those kind of players tend to be able to produce at a high level until their mid 30s.

Suzuki is also the oldest player of the future core. Slaf, Reinbacher, Hutson, Guhle, Caufield, Dach, Demidov, Mailloux, etc. are all younger than Suzuki.

 

[sensfan4lifee]

1. Larkin (who played hurt most of the season) is a better player than Stutzle at the moment
2. To confidently say that about Raymond after the 21 year old season he just had shows how little you've paid attention
3. Your best buddies point is weird... that's exactly what Mo and Lucas do already anyways
4. You should watch Raymond more because you have no idea what you're talking about in regards to Detroit players (no offense)

Larkin is not better than Stutzle,

Stutzle is a young legit #1 center who has already shown he can be a top 10 center in this league.

Once he puts it together he will be a legit top 10 center for along time.

Larkin is a 1b type center high end 2nd liner saying he is better than Stutzle is a joke even at the moment which he is not.

 

[saska sault]

So we have determined both teams have to improve, Detroit a little less in the meantime and the better prospect pool is up for debate for the next 5+ years. Right back where we started.

 

[izlez]

Montreal's rebuild isn't really that in sync when you look at the age of someone like Nick Suzuki who is turning 25 and entering his prime now vs a cornerstone piece that was just drafted like Demidov who is 18. A 7 year age gap looks something like a Jordan Eberle (2008 draft) to a Connor McDavid (2015 draft) or something like Tyler Seguin (2010 draft) to a Jason Robertson/Miro Heiskanen (2017 draft) in Dallas. They're almost a half career apart when talking about age gaps and development timelines.

I think you are only disproving your own point. Its a bad thing to have Seguin, Robertson, and Heiskanen on the same team??


And this highlights the funny opinions prevalent on HFBoards:
1. Rebuilds should only take 3-4 years. If you are not competing by then, fire the GM.
2. 25 year old's are too old to fit into the current rebuild. Trade them all away

 

[Stephen]

I think you are only disproving your own point. Its a bad thing to have Seguin, Robertson, and Heiskanen on the same team??


And this highlights the funny opinions prevalent on HFBoards:
1. Rebuilds should only take 3-4 years. If you are not competing by then, fire the GM.
2. 25 year old's are too old to fit into the current rebuild. Trade them all away

It’s not a value judgement on Seguin vs Robertson, Hintz etc. but you can see that Dallas’ contender status is driven by the younger group. Which basically means Montreal would need to put a center in place who will take over Suzuki as a running mate for the Denison, Reinbacher wave instead of assuming it’ll all cohere into one core group.

But I think Montreal will be building for a while anyway since I don’t see the bones of a special team emerging.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Montreal's rebuild isn't really that in sync when you look at the age of someone like Nick Suzuki who is turning 25 and entering his prime now vs a cornerstone piece that was just drafted like Demidov who is 18. A 7 year age gap looks something like a Jordan Eberle (2008 draft) to a Connor McDavid (2015 draft) or something like Tyler Seguin (2010 draft) to a Jason Robertson/Miro Heiskanen (2017 draft) in Dallas. They're almost a half career apart when talking about age gaps and development timelines.

Suzuki can either be a veteran ancillary core piece (not a marquee forward but not quite a depth forward) or a trade piece.