Which team has a better rebuild? Habs vs Red Wings?

[Lshap]

i actually agree with most of this but trying to hold it over another teams head when it was clearly a fluke is pretty weak.

"Fluke" is one of those lazy, weak words people use when they can't be bothered finding reasons for a team exceeding expectations.

Find a Habs goal that was a fluke. Point to a win that was a fluke. Name one Habs player that had a fluke performance. Unexpected? Yes. That does not equal fluke.

 

[dirtydanglez]

"Fluke" is one of those lazy, weak words people use when they can't be bothered finding reasons for a team exceeding expectations.

Find a Habs goal that was a fluke. Point to a win that was a fluke. Name one Habs player that had a fluke performance. Unexpected? Yes. That does not equal fluke.

they preceded their scf run with years of being a bubble team and followed it with being a bottom feeder. it was a fun fluky run during a gimmicky time of weird divisions, play in rounds, and bubbles.

 

[Lshap]

they preceded their scf run with years of being a bubble team and followed it with being a bottom feeder. it was a fun fluky run during a gimmicky time of weird divisions, play in rounds, and bubbles.

What do the results of different seasons have to do with that specific season?

You're not a Habs fan, so no problem if you don't know how strange that roster was. It was Bergevin's last-gasp before getting canned. He managed to cobble together a totally unsustainable group of players who were never destined to be there long. Three probable Hall of Famers (Weber, Price, Perry), very good D and solid depth up front, with Suzuki and Caufield emerging as the next wave. The season was a mess of injuries and Covid cancellations, but everybody came back for Round-1 and, no surprise, played well.

Unexpected? One-off? Unsustainable? Absolutely. However, not a thing happened that was 'fluky'.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Both painfully mid. But if I have to pick I like Montreal's young players more.

 

[WarriorofTime]

What do the results of different seasons have to do with that specific season?

You're not a Habs fan, so no problem if you don't know how strange that roster was. It was Bergevin's last-gasp before getting canned. He managed to cobble together a totally unsustainable group of players who were never destined to be there long. Three probable Hall of Famers (Weber, Price, Perry), very good D and solid depth up front, with Suzuki and Caufield emerging as the next wave. The season was a mess of injuries and Covid cancellations, but everybody came back for Round-1 and, no surprise, played well.

Unexpected? One-off? Unsustainable? Absolutely. However, not a thing happened that was 'fluky'.

Hockey is a high variance sport, let's just say, a confluence of factors came together to produce an unexpected outcome.

A fluke is defined as an unlikely chance occurrence, especially a surprising piece of luck. I think there's certainly an argument to be made regarding the "luck" piece (positive end of variance). It's not the same as saying a team was "undeserving".

Put another way, of all the teams that have made the Stanley Cup Finals in recent times, they are a very easy and popular choice for the weakest looking at all potential factors and angles to make that determination.

 

[Zarzh]

Detroit might challenge Buffalo's record.

Montreal did dumb things to rush their rebuild but still has potential.

 

[dirtydanglez]

What do the results of different seasons have to do with that specific season?

You're not a Habs fan, so no problem if you don't know how strange that roster was. It was Bergevin's last-gasp before getting canned. He managed to cobble together a totally unsustainable group of players who were never destined to be there long. Three probable Hall of Famers (Weber, Price, Perry), very good D and solid depth up front, with Suzuki and Caufield emerging as the next wave. The season was a mess of injuries and Covid cancellations, but everybody came back for Round-1 and, no surprise, played well.

Unexpected? One-off? Unsustainable? Absolutely. However, not a thing happened that was 'fluky'.

it was a team not even destined to make the playoffs. a large number of unusual events coming together. the previous and following seasons demonstrate that it was a lucky run. a one hit wonder. textbook fluke.

 

[Wayfarer13]

"Fluke" is one of those lazy, weak words people use when they can't be bothered finding reasons for a team exceeding expectations.

Find a Habs goal that was a fluke. Point to a win that was a fluke. Name one Habs player that had a fluke performance. Unexpected? Yes. That does not equal fluke.

Fluke-nonfluke all count the same at the end of the day

 

[Wayfarer13]

they preceded their scf run with years of being a bubble team and followed it with being a bottom feeder. it was a fun fluky run during a gimmicky time of weird divisions, play in rounds, and bubbles.

Are you saying the teams they beat magically forgot how to play hockey in those playoffs? The teams they beat were good teams.They started strong that year then went through their Covid dip which lowered their point totals. They were built for the the playoffs and left everything they had on the ice.

 

[FMichael]

Weird, considering they've been out of the playoffs for the last 8 seasons and their loser of a GM who's been on the job for 5-6 years still publically hasn't able to commit to his team being any good.

Failed franchise for a failed city is a nice fit though, I'll give the Wings that.

Please point out which generational talent was available for Yzerman in any one of the drafts he presided over.....

 

[Lshap]

it was a team not even destined to make the playoffs. a large number of unusual events coming together. the previous and following seasons demonstrate that it was a lucky run. a one hit wonder. textbook fluke.

In other word, you have absolutely nothing. "Fluke" is nothing but an emotional grunt at a team you dislike.

 

[Lshap]

Hockey is a high variance sport, let's just say, a confluence of factors came together to produce an unexpected outcome.

A fluke is defined as an unlikely chance occurrence, especially a surprising piece of luck. I think there's certainly an argument to be made regarding the "luck" piece (positive end of variance). It's not the same as saying a team was "undeserving".

Put another way, of all the teams that have made the Stanley Cup Finals in recent times, they are a very easy and popular choice for the weakest looking at all potential factors and angles to make that determination.

Heading out for dinner, but I appreciate you arguing legit debating points. I'll get back to you... depending how my date goes.

 

[Tanknation]

Demidov should be better as a scorer, sure, but Raymond will be the better overall 2-way player.

What makes you say that? Demidov is known as a real good 2 way player along with elite offense.

 

[dirtydanglez]

In other word, you have absolutely nothing. "Fluke" is nothing but an emotional grunt at a team you dislike.

if thats what helps you cope. by the way i took habs as better rebuild in the thread.

 

[Tanknation]

Detroit might challenge Buffalo's record.

Montreal did dumb things to rush their rebuild but still has potential.

Really? That is news too most of us. Montreal continues to rebuild. It's only been 2-3 years now.

 

[Lshap]

if thats what helps you cope. by the way i took habs as better rebuild in the thread.

No need to cope. Habs were in the SCF, despite the make believe stories.

 

[dirtydanglez]

No need to cope. Habs were in the SCF, despite the make believe stories.

no one was doubting they were in the scf...

 

[Bouboumaster]

Habs AINEC

Habs are going to suck one last year, they already have like a thousand draft picks next to load their already really loaded prospects banks and than we're going to be ready for war in 2025-2026

 

[Lazytrout]

no one was doubting they were in the scf...

He's right there's nothing to cope with for habs fans, the idea that they wouldn't make the playoffs in a normal year is only speculative, even if the team was bad. The way I see it it's the other side that's always trying to cope with excuses to take away any credit.

 

[dekelikekocur]

In other word, you have absolutely nothing. "Fluke" is nothing but an emotional grunt at a team you dislike.

A string of events lead to a team that had a point value that would not have made it into the playoffs had they not changed the alignment due to covid. It's a fluke regardless of how you want to argue it. Under normal circumstances they would have been golfing at season end. That is a fluke, their only way to getting in was due to an extraordinarily rare occurrence that caused the league to make a temporary change to alignment. The fact you're trying to argue against that you're arguing in bad faith because you can't admit you're wrong or you're trolling intentionally. Which is it?

 

[Lazytrout]

A string of events lead to a team that had a point value that would not have made it into the playoffs had they not changed the alignment due to covid. It's a fluke regardless of how you want to argue it. Under normal circumstances they would have been golfing at season end.

You have no idea what the standings would have looked like in a normal year, nobody does. Keep pretending and speculating.

 

[dj Mahoney]

Demidov should be better as a scorer, sure, but Raymond will be the better overall 2-way player.

Raymond looks like an 85 point player for his ceiling , Demidov looks like the sky is the limit 120 point player ? Sabre's look better than either team going forward imo.

 

[dj Mahoney]

Seider and Edvinsson are better than any D in Montreal’s system. Detroit’s D prospect depth is as deep as Montreal’s with better high end pieces. You also ignored centers which Detroit is much better situated. Assuming Demidov will be better than Raymond is also quite an assumption.

Who looks so great for wings other than Seider and Edvinsson ,ASP is overrated/ small and the others are blah .Habs D look much better , bigger and more well rounded . Sabre's young D are far better than either as are their forwards . Hab's have many of their young forwards already contributing. Sabre's look better up front than either of these teams as well . In net , the Wings take this .

Seider and Edvinsson are better than any D in Montreal’s system. Detroit’s D prospect depth is as deep as Montreal’s with better high end pieces. You also ignored centers which Detroit is much better situated. Assuming Demidov will be better than Raymond is also quite an assumption.

 

[Lshap]

A string of events lead to a team that had a point value that would not have made it into the playoffs had they not changed the alignment due to covid. It's a fluke regardless of how you want to argue it. Under normal circumstances they would have been golfing at season end. That is a fluke, their only way to getting in was due to an extraordinarily rare occurrence that caused the league to make a temporary change to alignment. The fact you're trying to argue against that you're arguing in bad faith because you can't admit you're wrong or you're trolling intentionally. Which is it?

Are you aware divisional alignment has shifted multiple times this century alone, not counting the different divisions before then? The notion that this one division was worse than all the rest in history is make-believe storytelling.

This 'fluke' nonsense is an emotional coping mechanism, nothing more.

 

[Lshap]

no one was doubting they were in the scf...

It's not doubting reality, it's the need to rationalize reality with an imaginary story.

I'll ask again: What goal was a fluke? What win was a fluke? What player's performance was a fluke? As another poster correctly noted, hockey is filled with variance. Unless you can point to an event or player that fell outside that normal range of variance, 'Fluke' exists only in your head.