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Which team has a better rebuild? Habs vs Red Wings?

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Miller Time said:
Everyone's a comedian these days eh 😂
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except look at these assets:
www.hockey-reference.com

2020-21 Montreal Canadiens Roster, Stats, Injuries, Scores, Results, Shootouts | Hockey-Reference.com

Check out the latest Montreal Canadiens Roster, Stats, Injuries, Scores, Results, Shootouts and more on Hockey-Reference.com
www.hockey-reference.com www.hockey-reference.com

and compare to these assets:

Detroit Red Wings 2019-20 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

The roster, scoring and goaltender statistics for the 2019-20 Detroit Red Wings playing in the NHL.
www.hockeydb.com
 
saska sault said:
People using the prospect pool that Yzerman inherited against him. Most busted and were bad picks. Zadina, Veleno and Rasmussen isn't much to start with as your most recent top 10 picks and a late first rounder, although I do believe Rasmussen will be a solid contributor for a long while once the team rounds into form more and more.
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Interesting.

I wonder what assets you'd otherwise consider, if not prospects/picks/roster players/cap space, in assessing what a GM "inherited" at the start of their tenure?

Nothing is being used "against" Yzerman. Simple stating of what pieces were in place at the time as part of the discussion on hand of comparing two different rebuild attempts.
 
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Dotter said:
except look at these assets:
www.hockey-reference.com

2020-21 Montreal Canadiens Roster, Stats, Injuries, Scores, Results, Shootouts | Hockey-Reference.com

Check out the latest Montreal Canadiens Roster, Stats, Injuries, Scores, Results, Shootouts and more on Hockey-Reference.com
www.hockey-reference.com www.hockey-reference.com

and compare to these assets:

Detroit Red Wings 2019-20 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

The roster, scoring and goaltender statistics for the 2019-20 Detroit Red Wings playing in the NHL.
www.hockeydb.com
Click to expand...
Aside from getting the years wrong (Hughes was hired Jan 2022. The roster he inherited was the 21-22 roster, not 20-21.

Yzerman was hired April 2019.

But, that mistake aside, I'm not sure your links make the point you think they do.
 
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HabbyGuy said:
This seems strange, this rebuild has been a godsend for the habs and something the fans have been clamouring for forever. The fanbase has never been more excited or optimistic than it is right now.

Hughes and company are doing things properly and we couldn't be more pleased with the direction we're headed.

Future is bright.
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Making the finals all of four years ago probably helps Habs fans. The comparison is still odd.
 
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Miller Time said:
Aside from getting the years wrong (Hughes was hired Jan 2022. The roster he inherited was the 21-22 roster, not 20-21.

Yzerman was hired April 2019.

But, that mistake aside, I'm not sure your links make the point you think they do.
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You're right. I just had a double take at the MTL assets Hughes inherited and they are ALL pretty much trash. Certainly nobody to build a team around.

Ignore my point. MTL has a long way to go since they had junk to work with. I confused MTL with OTT. Do you want Jeff Petry back?

OMG, and the almighty (overrated) Suzuki and Caufield shrimp tandem. I'm stupid. I ignorantly thought we were talking about the other crappy Canadian team; OTT. -- MTL is way worse.
 
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Dotter said:
Yikes!

Looks like Canadians had a significant head start towards their rebuild. How are they not ahead of Detroit?
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Not really. I may have said this earlier but the Habs were kind of trying to have their cake and eat it too for a few years.

The bottom line is that a team which had no intentions to sell off Weber or price cannot be considered as a team not trying to win.

Their hand was kind seemingly forced after the cup final run in 2021 when Weber went on permanent IR, and price went through a surgery that didn't help him continue. However, the previous GM continued doubling down to try and plug holes until he was finally put out of his misery late in 2021.

The tandem of gorton and hughes was established in 2022, and they have been pretty consistent in starting over and prioritizing a rebuild... so really the mindset of true rebuild only happened a couple years ago.
 
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Miller Time said:
If you frame the start of the rebuild as the first first full year for the GM leading it...

Detroit (Yzerman (April 2019)
Pre- rebuild 2018-19 : .451
Year 1 2019-2020 : .275
Last year (yr 5) 2023-4: .555


Montreal (Ken Hughes Jan 2022)
Pre- rebuild 2021-22 : .335
Year 1 2022-23 : .415
year (yr 2) 2023-24 : .463

Red Wings have hit the highest win %, but haven't made the playoffs after 5 full rebuild seasons and their net progress is .104 improvement in win %.
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This is extremely dumb.

Talk about inventing your own metrics to diminish the Wings improvement under Yzerman.

Also, not making the playoffs being a constant talking point is starting to get lame. Would you evaluate things very differently if they had <1 point more and a 4 game exit in the 1st round? Would that completely flip your opinion? Or are you using it as a simple ’gotcha’ to discredit the improvement they made?
 
Pavels Dog said:
This is extremely dumb.

Talk about inventing your own metrics to diminish the Wings improvement under Yzerman.

Also, not making the playoffs being a constant talking point is starting to get lame. Would you evaluate things very differently if they had <1 point more and a 4 game exit in the 1st round? Would that completely flip your opinion? Or are you using it as a simple ’gotcha’ to discredit the improvement they made?
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You seem confused by the post you replied to, because you missed the point entirely. I'm not sure I can dumb it down anymore. Maybe try re-reading :dunno:
 
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a good number of DRW fans wanted SY to tank another year (myself included) the off-season they signed copp n co. that said myself and most DRWs happy where the rebuild is at.

Last season was good as a season could b for a team missing the playoffs, n 9/10s DRW were satsified with the progress the team has made.

Feels like expectations r rising within fanbase n organization, so IMO this upcoming season will finally be some pressure for DRW to be a PO team.
 
Wings will make the playoff's this year but Habs prospects look superior . Redwings Goalies are better, Habs young D better , Habs forwards better. Demidov should be better than Raymond . Seider is better than any of the Habs young D but Montreal is deeper .
 
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Cossa
Augustine

Seider (23)
Edvinsson
ASP
Johansson
Wallinder

Raymond (22)
Kasper
Danielson
Bradsegg-Nygar
Bergrren
Mazur

Obviously 2 of those guys are big contributors already but the future is much brighter than alot of outside fans think. Not all of the guys will make impact in the NHL but the prospect pool is deep without going too far in depth and going over guys who could be later round steals.

Also all the vets that are clogging are line up are signed short term. 3 players signed for more than 3 years lines up nicely for when any of these guys break through and need to graduate from ELCS.

Detroit got one top 5 pick from bad lottery luck but did a tremendous job building up a really strong pipeline of youth that will be trickling in next year and for years to come. It was frustrating for some fans with some of our signings but none of these guys need to come in and sink or swim now with a solid group of veterans.

Don't know much about Montreal so I'll leave that one alone.
 
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dj Mahoney said:
Wings will make the playoff's this year but Habs prospects look superior . Redwings Goalies are better, Habs young D better , Habs forwards better. Demidov should be better than Raymond . Seider is better than any of the Habs young D but Montreal is deeper .
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Demidov should be better as a scorer, sure, but Raymond will be the better overall 2-way player.
 
Detroits rebuild is pretty hard to get excited about. I think they’ll get to the playoffs first and pretty soon but that’s about it with that team
 
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CanadienShark said:
You realize you'd still need to beat other playoff teams to reach the finals, don't you?
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Other teams in the same shit division you skated in on due to quarantine? Yes. Thanks.

We'll conveniently ignore that in normal conference alignment, Montreal wouldn't even have qualified. :thumbu:

Suntouchable13 said:
Vegas I give you, but beating WPG and Toronto is not that impressive.
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Two easy matchups followed by a beaten down Vegas.

Fledgemyhedge said:
Detroits rebuild is pretty hard to get excited about. I think they’ll get to the playoffs first and pretty soon but that’s about it with that team
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They got bounced from the playoffs due to a tiebreaker with only 2 of their 7 1st rounders over the prior 5 drafts on the roster lol.
 
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