Which team has a better rebuild? Habs vs Red Wings?

[norrisnick]

'17 & '18 red Wings draft picks:
8* 3rd round picks
3* 2nd Rd picks (33, 36 & 38 OA)
3* 1st Rd picks (6, 9 & 30 OA)

Yzerman had all of those prospects on hand when he started.
+ Larkin, Hronek, Mantha, Athanasiou & Bertuzzi all U25
+ 6 OA & 3* 2nd in his first draft (2019)

The bolded reads much more impressive than listing Filip Zadina, Michael Rasmussen, and Joe Veleno.

 

[Dotter]

'17 & '18 red Wings draft picks:
8* 3rd round picks
3* 2nd Rd picks (33, 36 & 38 OA)
3* 1st Rd picks (6, 9 & 30 OA)

Yzerman had all of those prospects on hand when he started.
+ Larkin, Hronek, Mantha, Athanasiou & Bertuzzi all U25
+ 6 OA & 3* 2nd in his first draft (2019)

Yikes!

Looks like Canadians had a significant head start towards their rebuild. How are they not ahead of Detroit?

 

[WarriorofTime]

Yikes!

Looks like Canadians had a significant head start towards their rebuild. How are they not ahead of Detroit?

Detroit has missed the Playoffs eight straight years. They've been rebuilding longer than almost anyone.

 

[saska sault]

Detroit has missed the Playoffs eight straight years. They've been rebuilding longer than almost anyone.

You are persistent if anything, I'll give you that (in regards to being in Detroit conversations).

 

[WarriorofTime]

You are persistent if anything, I'll give you that (in regards to being in Detroit conversations).

Conversation isn't about me

 

[danisonfire]

Yikes!

Looks like Canadians had a significant head start towards their rebuild. How are they not ahead of Detroit?

They started rebuilding the team several years after Detroit began their rebuild. Detroit is like 3+ years ahead in the process.

 

[zenator]

Habs. Detroit has a lot of mediocre contracts with middling players. Montreal has a couple, but they'll be off the books in 1 year. Montreal has more now plus future high-end talent.

 

[saska sault]

Habs. Detroit has a lot of mediocre contracts with middling players. Montreal has a couple, but they'll be off the books in 1 year. Montreal has more now plus future high-end talent.

Detroit has 2 players besides Larkin signed for more than 3 years. They have some guys like Holl, Chiarot and Petry (who not even most Wings fans like) but they really don't effect anything going forward and won't block any youth coming up this year.

Should be 3 rookies getting regular ice time and opportunities, and a more well rounded team this coming year. That trend will probably continue for a couple years as the Kanes and Tarasenkos get overtaken in the line up.

Montreal has some great prospects, as does Detroit. Not sure there is a huge difference yet in each teams top line guys now and in the pipeline. Be fun to see how it all shakes down in a few years when guys develop and get into the league. Hopefully the division slowly flips bottom to top and we get some new top end rivalries.

 

[Miller Time]

Yikes!

Looks like Canadians had a significant head start towards their rebuild. How are they not ahead of Detroit?

Everyone's a comedian these days eh

 

[Miller Time]

The bolded reads much more impressive than listing Filip Zadina, Michael Rasmussen, and Joe Veleno.

Veleno put up a C note in juniors in his D+1
Zadina .5ppg in the NHL in 36 games D1&2 before COVID shut things down.

The value of prospects are at their highest post draft except for the few who turn potential into NHL impact... the vast majority only decline over time. Zadina's value today is a fraction of his asset value the day Yzerman took over.

Hindsight is a concept that isn't too difficult to understand I would've thought

 

[Dotter]

Detroit has missed the Playoffs eight straight years. They've been rebuilding longer than almost anyone.

Your rebuttal is completely off topic to the conversation I am engaging in with another poster.

Yzerman vs. Hughes

 

[WarriorofTime]

Your rebuttal is completely off topic to the conversation I am engaging in with another poster.

Yzerman vs. Hughes

You said Montreal has been rebuilding longer than Detroit..

 

[tarheelhockey]

They have some good young players but neither is in a place to be trash talking the other.

 

[norrisnick]

Veleno put up a C note in juniors in his D+1
Zadina .5ppg in the NHL in 36 games D1&2 before COVID shut things down.

The value of prospects are at their highest post draft except for the few who turn potential into NHL impact... the vast majority only decline over time. Zadina's value today is a fraction of his asset value the day Yzerman took over.

Hindsight is a concept that isn't too difficult to understand I would've thought

So Yzerman's rebuild failure is not immediately trading away every prospect in the farm before they turned out to not be nearly as good as their draft position?

f***ing Nostradamus over here...

 

[saska sault]

Here's comes 5 pages of the same old same old...

 

[DJJones]

Both of these teams make me terrified for Calgary to go full rebuild.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Both of these teams make me terrified for Calgary to go full rebuild.

What's the alternative?

 

[DJJones]

What's the alternative?

Don't actively try to suck

 

[Miller Time]

So Yzerman's rebuild failure is not immediately trading away every prospect in the farm before they turned out to not be nearly as good as their draft position?

f***ing Nostradamus over here...

What exactly are you trying to argue?

You seem very lost.

 

[saska sault]

What exactly are you trying to argue?

You seem very lost.

People using the prospect pool that Yzerman inherited against him. Most busted and were bad picks. Zadina, Veleno and Rasmussen isn't much to start with as your most recent top 10 picks and a late first rounder, although I do believe Rasmussen will be a solid contributor for a long while once the team rounds into form more and more.

 

[norrisnick]

What exactly are you trying to argue?

You seem very lost.

That the assets listed were worth less than the time it took you to type them all out. Zadina, Rasmussen, and Veleno being drafted in the 1st round is completely worthless if the players themselves don't reflect that value. So any argument that "well prospects have the highest value right after they were drafted" is silly to say the very least. The only way it's a meaningful statement is if your argument is that Yzerman when coming in should have known they were all trash and should have traded them before the reality of their ability came to light and tanked their value. As if there is any history of any GM coming in anywhere and immediately nuking the prospect pool. And if that isn't your argument, you're just saying things to say things, but it doesn't really mean anything.

 

[Dotter]

You said Montreal has been rebuilding longer than Detroit..

Meaning Hughes had more assets to work with whereas Holland gave very little for Yzerman post-2019; Larkin, Hronek and.... who else? Canadians had assets passed down for Hughes to work with. Again, you are not part of this conversation.

If you followed our conversation you'd know what we are talking about.

 

[Pablo El Perro]

I said this earlier, but it's worth repeating: are either officially rebuilt?

 

[Dotter]

They started rebuilding the team several years after Detroit began their rebuild. Detroit is like 3+ years ahead in the process.

Wings started with scorched earth whereas Canadians boasted valuable assets prior to their respective rebuild. Didn't Jesperi Kotkaniemi get offersheet?

 

[HabbyGuy]

Both of these teams make me terrified for Calgary to go full rebuild.

This seems strange, this rebuild has been a godsend for the habs and something the fans have been clamouring for forever. The fanbase has never been more excited or optimistic than it is right now.

Hughes and company are doing things properly and we couldn't be more pleased with the direction we're headed.

Future is bright.