Which team has a better rebuild? Habs vs Red Wings?

[benfranklin]

Habs are showing the rest of us how to rebuild things correctly and quickly. They'll be back in the playoffs before Sabres, Sens or Wings, and started their rebuild like 3-4 years after them too. Sad times.

All 4 of those teams feel so far behind the Panthers, Leafs, Lightning, and Bruins. Even as the Lightning age, I still have more faith in a 5th Metro team than any team here. The Sens "should" be good, but weve been saying that for years now.

 

[SENStastic]

All 4 of those teams feel so far behind the Panthers, Leafs, Lightning, and Bruins. Even as the Lightning age, I still have more faith in a 5th Metro team than any team here. The Sens "should" be good, but weve been saying that for years now.

Yep the current top 4 will stay there for another 2-3 years imo. After then I'd expect Montreal to be back in playoff contention, and leap frog us, the Wings and Sabres unfortunately.

 

[KJoe88]

*insert my favorite team here*

 

[Hoochi Papa]

Detroit's defense behind Seider is loaded with shit veterans. Team overall looks pretty mid. One would expect a little more impressive prospect pipe after being awful for such a long time. They have very good players in Larkin, DeBrincat, Seider and Raymond. At this moment their 1C, 1W, 2W, 1D situation is better than Habs. But that could/should change within couple of years. I'd rather have Suzuki, Slafkovsky, Demidov and Reinbacher. But it's easy to understand if people feel otherwise. Red Wings tried to compete too early spending too much money on bland veterans. Maybe that's why their prospect pool isn't as deep as Montreal's.

Canadiens rebuild looks very promising but I believe they are missing future 1/2 C, bona fide 1D and the goaltender depth is a question mark. Too much is expected from Kirby Dach and right now I find hard to assume he'll remain healthy and these so-called freaky injuries are over. If Habs could poach Laine from Columbus their future top-6 winger situation would be insane. They've spent so much draft capital on defense that I will be disappointed if it doesn't get better within few years. Plenty of interesting names but so far only Guhle has been tested in the NHL (and Hutson for a couple of games). Hopefully 2025 free agency kickstarts the new era of Canadiens.

In the long term Canadiens situation is better but they need to find one or two key acquisitions from free agency. Lukewarm and overpaid Chandler Stephenson won't cut it. Which could be a problem since biggest free agent stars tend to avoid them.

 

[dirtydanglez]

this offseason tipped it in the habs favor. not sure what stevie y is doing but it's not rebuilding or competing.

 

[GeeoffBrown]

I get the feeling that the Red Wings tried to compete too soon

 

[WarriorofTime]

The Habs now having Demidov probably moves the needle in their direction. Wings could have really used a prospect like that.

 

[saska sault]

Wings will be fine. Montreal has a nice prospect pool and bright future I believe. Wings "useless" vets put them a year or 2 ahead in the process. Tarasenko, Kane, Larkin, Raymond and Seider may be a middle of the league team this year but there's a chance some of their young kids actually push the ceiling of this team. Crazy idea I know. Time will tell.

Also losing Sprong, Ghost and Fabbri is a net positive on the defensive end alone.

 

[SENStastic]

*insert my favorite team here*

Not really. Don't like either team, but definitely hate the Habs more. Still have to admit they're rebuild seems to be going better than the Wings, or even the Sens at this point. If they add a legit 1C next couple years then they take it by a mile.

 

[JiricekSaveUs]

Both teams are missing some key parts of their rebuild. The red wings could get there depending on how Raymond hits in his prime and if Larkin can hang on or if Danielson exceeds expectations. Generally, I’d prefer where the Habs are, though.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Detroit's defense behind Seider is loaded with shit veterans.

People sleeping on Edvinsson. Kid has higher ceiling than Seider imo.

Johansson also on the roster this year, although he projects more as depth.

Wallinder/Buium/ASP coming up in the next ~2 years.

Defense is one area where Detroit looks very promising,

 

[Miller Time]

If you frame the start of the rebuild as the first first full year for the GM leading it...

Detroit (Yzerman (April 2019)
Pre- rebuild 2018-19 : .451
Year 1 2019-2020 : .275
Last year (yr 5) 2023-4: .555


Montreal (Ken Hughes Jan 2022)
Pre- rebuild 2021-22 : .335
Year 1 2022-23 : .415
year (yr 2) 2023-24 : .463


Red Wings have hit the highest win %, but haven't made the playoffs after 5 full rebuild seasons and their net progress is .104 improvement in win %.

Habs are only 2 full seasons in, also haven't made the POs, have improved sv% by .128.

Red Wings are further along, Habs are further ahead at the same point in the rebuild journey.

I'll be shocked if the Habs young core hasn't made the POs by 2025-26 (year 4), and they may well surprise a lot of people this coming season... whereas the Red Wings are far from a playoff lock heading into year 6.

But progress and playoffs are moot if/when either team wins the cup. That's the end goal, winning trumps the rest

 

[TheOrangeDesk]

Both garbage to be honest. This decades version of last decades oilers/sabres

 

[AD1066]

I think Yzerman jumped the gun with mediocre signings like Copp prior to having acquired sufficient talent in the draft. Lottery luck didn't do the Wings any favors and I don't see the current trajectory ever being sufficient to compete. Ideally Larkin would be the 2C on a contender.

 

[FlameChampion]

I think Detroit has better players.

Prospects wise, I am not sure.

I like Kent Hughes body of work much better than Yzermans though. I have more faith in Hughes building a team honestly.

Will be a challenge for either of them in the Atlantic though.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

I think Hughes is doing a good job in Montreal and I do question the Yzerplan in relation to Yzerman’s choice to continue added spare part veterans.

I’d put RedWings ahead of Montreal at this point for 2 reasons. Closer to being a playoff team and higher end talent at the top. Montreal might have a D prospect who ends up developing into the calibre of a Seider but it remains to be seen.

I think Montreal is in a good position. Good coach, good Gm, good prospect pool, good collection of young players. With continued patience I think Montreal will pass the Redwings build in due time. As others have mentioned Yzerman jumped the gun adding lots of mediocre veterans and in my opinion flat out wasted cap space that could have been used adding less but better long term players.

With how many teams have been cap strapped the last few years it’s really damning that a team that had cap space continued to waste it as Yzerman did.

 

[HuGo Sham]

Habs aren't lacking that high end talent anymore with Demidov and Hutson - and Suzuki continues to trend upwards. There's also Slafkovsky and Caufield.
Hage looks like a great pick too as i'm not convinced Dach can stay healthy (even though he still has loads of potential).
I think hughes wants to make a hockey trade and move out some young D for another young, top 6 forward, but he's not in a rush.
Habs have another 13 picks next summer including 7 in the 1st 3 rounds.
If they have anywhere close to the draft they had last June, look out

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Both garbage to be honest. This decades version of last decades oilers/sabres

We've been rebuilding for 3 years relax lol

 

[JianYang]

We've been rebuilding for 3 years relax lol

Not even. Gorton came in November 2021' and hughes came in 2022. That is when the teardown started.

 

[HabbyGuy]

Habs aren't lacking that high end talent anymore with Demidov and Hutson - and Suzuki continues to trend upwards. There's also Slafkovsky and Caufield.
Hage looks like a great pick too as i'm not convinced Dach can stay healthy (even though he still has loads of potential).
I think hughes wants to make a hockey trade and move out some young D for another young, top 6 forward, but he's not in a rush.
Habs have another 13 picks next summer including 7 in the 1st 3 rounds.
If they have anywhere close to the draft they had last June, look out

Let them continue to sleep on the habs. We're in way better shape than people realize. (Or refuse to admit)

 

[montreal]

I would say most of the players on the Habs this year won't be there when the team is hopefully a contender again years from now.

 

[Dotter]

If you frame the start of the rebuild as the first first full year for the GM leading it...

Detroit (Yzerman (April 2019)
Pre- rebuild 2018-19 : .451
Year 1 2019-2020 : .275
Last year (yr 5) 2023-4: .555


Montreal (Ken Hughes Jan 2022)
Pre- rebuild 2021-22 : .335
Year 1 2022-23 : .415
year (yr 2) 2023-24 : .463


Red Wings have hit the highest win %, but haven't made the playoffs after 5 full rebuild seasons and their net progress is .104 improvement in win %.

Habs are only 2 full seasons in, also haven't made the POs, have improved sv% by .128.

Red Wings are further along, Habs are further ahead at the same point in the rebuild journey.

I'll be shocked if the Habs young core hasn't made the POs by 2025-26 (year 4), and they may well surprise a lot of people this coming season... whereas the Red Wings are far from a playoff lock heading into year 6.

But progress and playoffs are moot if/when either team wins the cup. That's the end goal, winning trumps the rest

I like your breakdown, but I think you missed on one key element. What aforementioned GM started with more assets when they took over? I can count on 3 fingers what 'assets' Yzerman started with post-2019.

 

[Miller Time]

I like your breakdown, but I think you missed on one key element. What aforementioned GM started with more assets when they took over? I can count on 3 fingers what 'assets' Yzerman started with post-2019.

'17 & '18 red Wings draft picks:
8* 3rd round picks
3* 2nd Rd picks (33, 36 & 38 OA)
3* 1st Rd picks (6, 9 & 30 OA)

Yzerman had all of those prospects on hand when he started.
+ Larkin, Hronek, Mantha, Athanasiou & Bertuzzi all U25
+ 6 OA & 3* 2nd in his first draft (2019)

 

[cjeagle]

Detroit's defense behind Seider is loaded with shit veterans. Team overall looks pretty mid. One would expect a little more impressive prospect pipe after being awful for such a long time. They have very good players in Larkin, DeBrincat, Seider and Raymond. At this moment their 1C, 1W, 2W, 1D situation is better than Habs. But that could/should change within couple of years. I'd rather have Suzuki, Slafkovsky, Demidov and Reinbacher. But it's easy to understand if people feel otherwise. Red Wings tried to compete too early spending too much money on bland veterans. Maybe that's why their prospect pool isn't as deep as Montreal's.

Canadiens rebuild looks very promising but I believe they are missing future 1/2 C, bona fide 1D and the goaltender depth is a question mark. Too much is expected from Kirby Dach and right now I find hard to assume he'll remain healthy and these so-called freaky injuries are over. If Habs could poach Laine from Columbus their future top-6 winger situation would be insane. They've spent so much draft capital on defense that I will be disappointed if it doesn't get better within few years. Plenty of interesting names but so far only Guhle has been tested in the NHL (and Hutson for a couple of games). Hopefully 2025 free agency kickstarts the new era of Canadiens.

In the long term Canadiens situation is better but they need to find one or two key acquisitions from free agency. Lukewarm and overpaid Chandler Stephenson won't cut it. Which could be a problem since biggest free agent stars tend to avoid them.

The Redwings have drafted wisely at all positions since Yzerman started the rebuild. You mentioned that the Habs are lacking a future 1/2 C, bona fide 1D and goaltender depth and acc. to prospect rankings the Redwings actually have promising elite prospects or current young players manning those positions already.

At center they already have Larkin signed on a long term contract(the only remaining elite player from before Yzerman's stint as manager) and have 1st round draft picks Danielson and Kasper behind him. Danielson was the last cut in last year's Redwings training camp which was impressive as an 18 y.o. rookie and was the most promising player in this year's developmental camp. They expect him to challenge for a spot on the Redwings this year.

At defence, they have high draft picks Seider(picked the first year of Yzerman's draft and winning the Calder trophy for Rookie of the Year in 2022) and Edvinsson graduating to the seniors already and have last year's highly rated 1st round Swedish prospect Axel Sandin Pelikka continuing to develop in the SHL and at 18 y.o. already winning the Salming Trophy for the best Swedish born defenceman in the SHL. They also have proming young defenceman Johansson, Wallinder and Buium to complement those players.

At goaltender they have highly rated Sebastien Cossa and Trey Augustine giving them a promising 1-2 tandem in the future. Cossa has been improving nicely in the AHL and helped lead the Griffins in the playoffs. Augustine was even more impressive becoming a semifinalist for the Mike Richter award for best NCAA hockey goaltender in his rookie year while winning a gold medal for the US in the 2024 World Junior Championships. During the tournament he won all four games he started, and posted a tournament-best 1.75 GAA and .936 save percentage. The US coaching staff rated him so high that they called him up to the men's 2024 World Ice Hockey Championships becoming the 19th teen goaltender in history to play in the tournament appearing in three games with one win and one loss and posting a 1.37 GAA and a .929 save percentage, starting and winning one game while subbing nicely for other NHL veterans when they struggled in their games.

Long term they have high end prospects in every position including this year where they spent their first few draft picks on forwards. I feel because Detroit started their rebuild earlier than the Canadiens that they have a deeper pool of prospects waiting in the wings at every position than the Habs have.

 

[TageGod]

Neither.