Which team has a better rebuild? Habs vs Red Wings?

[Tanknation]

Pretty close now, but even then edge goes to Montreal. Then you factor in this year's pick and all the other draft picks they accumulated it is easy to say Montreal. Fast forward next year or two, it's not even close.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Probably Detroit. They have elite pieces on D but need to find a star forward. Montreal just has too many holes to fill.

 

[Mackiaveli]

Montreal just has too many holes to fill.

like what?

Suzuki (24)
Xhekaj (23)
Dach (23)
Newhook (23)
Caufield (23)
Guhle (22)
Mailloux (21)
Slafkovsky (20)
Hutson (20)
Roy (20)
Reinbacher (19)
This year's top 7 pick (18)

+
Barron (22)
Mesar (20)
Beck (20)
Fowler (19)

The Habs realistically need this year's draft pick to hit, and to add one more legit top 6 forward and they are going to be in a good spot.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

like what?

Suzuki (24)
Xhekaj (23)
Dach (23)
Newhook (23)
Caufield (23)
Guhle (22)
Mailloux (21)
Slafkovsky (20)
Hutson (20)
Roy (20)
Reinbacher (19)
This year's top 7 pick (18)

+
Barron (22)
Mesar (20)
Beck (20)
Fowler (19)

The Habs realistically need this year's draft pick to hit, and to add one more legit top 6 forward and they are going to be in a good spot.

Yeah that’s what I said. Lots of good pieces but need a couple of elite forwards and a top D and goalie. There’s good depth already. Likely need a second rebuild/retool to grab those pieces unless they get lucky.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

I like Montreal better than Detroit here.

Detroit has propped themselves up from bad to mid by overpaying vets in free agency. Montreal could easily do that in an off-season or two if they wanted to, but that's a recipe to stay mid. If Montreal is patient enough I think they'll ultimately top out higher than Detroit.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

They both lack a high end superstar. In 2-3 years the Habs will be right where the Wings are right now. They both have good young players and prospects...but I'm not sure how either acquire said superstar.

 

[SensFactor]

Mtl is slightly ahead for me. Detroit has some nice talent, but not sure how they will all translate in the NHL

 

[Beezeral]

like what?

Suzuki (24)
Xhekaj (23)
Dach (23)
Newhook (23)
Caufield (23)
Guhle (22)
Mailloux (21)
Slafkovsky (20)
Hutson (20)
Roy (20)
Reinbacher (19)
This year's top 7 pick (18)

+
Barron (22)
Mesar (20)
Beck (20)
Fowler (19)

The Habs realistically need this year's draft pick to hit, and to add one more legit top 6 forward and they are going to be in a good spot.

Young doesn't mean good.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

How can MTL be ahead when we've been rebuilding for 2 years.....I wish we would tank again next year but I think we will try to improve and try to fight for 10th 9th 8th

 

[Voight]

like what?

Suzuki (24)
Xhekaj (23)
Dach (23)
Newhook (23)
Caufield (23)
Guhle (22)
Mailloux (21)
Slafkovsky (20)
Hutson (20)
Roy (20)
Reinbacher (19)
This year's top 7 pick (18)

+
Barron (22)
Mesar (20)
Beck (20)
Fowler (19)

The Habs realistically need this year's draft pick to hit, and to add one more legit top 6 forward and they are going to be in a good spot.

That's assuming all of their prospects/young players reach their potential.

 

[NyQuil]

That's assuming all of their prospects/young players reach their potential.

Both teams are in the same boat with the same amount of unbridled optimism about their unproven talent.

 

[Voight]

What a joke of a post. Habs are rebuilding the right way. Newhook will be worth far more than 2 early 2nd round picks. Habs gave up a redundant player in Romanov for Dach. Looks like a glass body but worth the risk. There is no need to buy out anyone. They have plenty of cap room to make any moves that materialize. Yzerman added a lot of overplayed players like Andrew Copp, JT Compher etc that the Wings are stuck with for years. All the Habs duds except Gallagher will be gone after next season.


Wrong again. Slafkovsky is going to be a star player. And they got Reinbacher who may well be as valuable as any player in the draft outside of Bedard.

Hes played 0 NHL games.

 

[newfy]

I think the answer is Detroit and its fairly obvious. Better prospect pool (2nd in the league on the Athletic), and clearly well ahead on the actual ice as well. Who knows how it turns out in a decade, but right now Detroit is the obvious answer

Habs and Wings rebuilds suffer from the same issue. The refusal to tank for top tier talent.

Habs did it once for Slafkovsky (knowing full well he wasn't an elite talent) then stopped before 2023 when they could have had Bedard, Carlsson or Fantilli.

I dont think its really a "refusal" to tank for top talent at all. The wings tanked, and ended up with a 4th overall and a few 6th overall picks thanks to the lottery. The habs just picked first overall. Its just that youre not going to always get lottery luck and each year a first overall pick isnt the exact same talent level as other years. Detroit ended up lucky it seems when they fell and got Raymond in 2021, but saying neither team tanked isnt really true.

I also think not getting a Matthews or McDavid who make an impact right from their rookie season kind of sour people on some of the players they did get. Guys like Raymond and Seider can definitely become high end enough players in a few years to win with.

You should probably feel worse for your own team. Wild have had a relevant team every year for the last decade while the Wings have been a bottom feeder. During that time, Minnesota has accumulated just as much young talent too

Kap, Boldy, JEE, Brodin, Faber, Rossi, Yurov, Wallstedt is a solid core. Keep in mind that group has had 20% of their cap space wasted and that’s coming to an end. No chance I swap our roster & prospects for Detroits.

Yeahhhh, no. The reason the wings were a bottom feeder for a decade was directly related to how I got to watch them win 4 cups. The wild havent won a playoff series since the last time Detroit made the playoffs

 

[waitin425]

IF HEALTHY.....Habs next year will take a big leap. Slaf continues to grow. Suzuki hits PPG. Caufield will be moved to Dach's line. Dach reminds everyone what he was progressing to in 22/23.

You can go ahead and save this post. Habs to make playoffs next year.

 

[MNRube]

Yeahhhh, no. The reason the wings were a bottom feeder for a decade was directly related to how I got to watch them win 4 cups. The wild havent won a playoff series since the last time Detroit made the playoffs

And somehow the Wild play relevant games every year and still have more young talent than the Wings who have tanked for a decade.

 

[newfy]

And somehow the Wild play relevant games every year and still have more young talent than the Wings who have tanked for a decade.

They've won 7 first round playoff games total, and missed the playoffs twice the last 5 seasons, make that 9 first round playoff wins total since the wings last made the playoffs.... congrats on those big relevant games and 9 total meaningful wins the last 7 seasons, I'll take the cups and 9 less wins thanks

 

[Heffyhoof]

Is there a betting format that allows me to gamble on one team doing better than the other during the regular season? Considering the majority opinion seems to be Detroit, I should be guaranteed to win betting on Montreal.

 

[Beezeral]

What a joke of a post. Habs are rebuilding the right way. Newhook will be worth far more than 2 early 2nd round picks. Habs gave up a redundant player in Romanov for Dach. Looks like a glass body but worth the risk. There is no need to buy out anyone. They have plenty of cap room to make any moves that materialize. Yzerman added a lot of overplayed players like Andrew Copp, JT Compher etc that the Wings are stuck with for years. All the Habs duds except Gallagher will be gone after next season.


Wrong again. Slafkovsky is going to be a star player. And they got Reinbacher who may well be as valuable as any player in the draft outside of Bedard.

This is some unbridled homerism.

Dach and Newhook are nice players but not guys you parade around as examples of a successful rebuild. Calling Reinbacher the 2nd most valuable player in what seems to be a very good draft when he has ZERO NHL games played is wild. You need to show your work on that one.

 

[Crunchy]

IF HEALTHY.....Habs next year will take a big leap. Slaf continues to grow. Suzuki hits PPG. Caufield will be moved to Dach's line. Dach reminds everyone what he was progressing to in 22/23.

You can go ahead and save this post. Habs to make playoffs next year.

Do you think Montreal leapfrogs all of Buffalo, Ottawa, and Detroit then?

 

[dgibb10]

IF HEALTHY.....Habs next year will take a big leap. Slaf continues to grow. Suzuki hits PPG. Caufield will be moved to Dach's line. Dach reminds everyone what he was progressing to in 22/23.

You can go ahead and save this post. Habs to make playoffs next year.

Dach had 18 points 5v5. Almost all of his success, and almost all of Slafs success has come alongside Suzuki and Caufield and specifically on the power play 1 getting 4+ minutes a night. Both struggled when not in that role. And there's only 1 spot there.

I don't see dach moving the needle 5v5 or making the habs into a top tier power play.


Additionally, despite getting FANTASTIC goaltending this year (which is very likely to be worse next year due to goalie volatility), that goaltending alone could drop them by 20-25 goals if Montembault plays at an average level next year.

Additionally, its a LONG way up to go.

Bottom 5 in goal differential, expected goal differential, wins, regulation wins.

 

[wedge]

the Wings are one or two years ahead of the habs. We'll get there but RIGHT NOW, Wings are ahead. We really need better forwards.

 

[nbwingsfan]

This is some unbridled homerism.

Dach and Newhook are nice players but not guys you parade around as examples of a successful rebuild. Calling Reinbacher the 2nd most valuable player in what seems to be a very good draft when he has ZERO NHL games played is wild. You need to show your work on that one.

Yeah I’m very confused how Reinbacher has suddenly now become the 2nd most valuable player in draft after having by all accounts a worse season this year than last, where he was already a reach where he was picked.

 

[dgibb10]

Yeah I’m very confused how Reinbacher has suddenly now become the 2nd most valuable player in draft after having by all accounts a worse season this year than last, where he was already a reach where he was picked.

Especially with how good Fantilli and Carlsson have played at the NHL level

 

[MNRube]

They've won 7 first round playoff games total, and missed the playoffs twice the last 5 seasons, make that 9 first round playoff wins total since the wings last made the playoffs.... congrats on those big relevant games and 9 total meaningful wins the last 7 seasons, I'll take the cups and 9 less wins thanks

Cups were a long time ago. The contemporary Wings have been a laughingstock for a decade. And haven’t even collected a single elite talent for it, unless you want to count tweeners like Seider or Larkin.

 

[FMichael]

Habs and Wings rebuilds suffer from the same issue. The refusal to tank for top tier talent.

Habs did it once for Slafkovsky (knowing full well he wasn't an elite talent) then stopped before 2023 when they could have had Bedard, Carlsson or Fantilli.

You do realize that even though you can be a bottom feeder - you can still get screwed via the lottery (Detroit), and/or the talent you draft at #1 or #2 may never quite live up to expectation (Montreal).

If tanking and auto generational talent magically appeared on your roster then many more teams would be willing to tank.