Which team has a better rebuild? Habs vs Red Wings?
- Thread starter sawchuk1971
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dirtydanglez
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- Oct 30, 2022
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this is why both rebuilds will fail. both franchises got impatient and took shortcuts.
The fanbase would support it. I mean the team has been mediocre for a long time and still has good attendance. I think previous management got fooled by the Covid season. The rebuild should have happened a long time ago with competent management.
The Grim Reaper
Registered User
I'll say in the short term, the Wings. But their draft luck has really bit them and the lack of superstar talent on the roster will be hard to add without depleting their prospects.
In the long term I think Montreal has the better foundation for success. Younger core that consists of more players (Suzuki, Caufield, Slavkovsky, Guhle, and Primeau) will anchor Montreal and allow them to extend their window a bit longer, since they've already signed Suzuki/Caufield, and the expected Slavkovsky extension will occur at a time when all their dead cap is gone and the Cap will have gone up a good amount to sign him long-term. As well, I think Montreal's prospect pool has a higher grade of talent, plus with a little lottery luck they should be able to get another decent add to their pool. If they can get a healthy season out of Dach, he would be added to the Core, but I'm omitting him for now until he does show he can be healthy.
I think Yzerman can get the roster he wants, but he'll have to pay for it to do so. Meanwhile I think Montreal can just keep the ship on course with what they have and trade from a large surplus of prospects without hampering their ability consistently bring on younger talent to the main roster.
In the long term I think Montreal has the better foundation for success. Younger core that consists of more players (Suzuki, Caufield, Slavkovsky, Guhle, and Primeau) will anchor Montreal and allow them to extend their window a bit longer, since they've already signed Suzuki/Caufield, and the expected Slavkovsky extension will occur at a time when all their dead cap is gone and the Cap will have gone up a good amount to sign him long-term. As well, I think Montreal's prospect pool has a higher grade of talent, plus with a little lottery luck they should be able to get another decent add to their pool. If they can get a healthy season out of Dach, he would be added to the Core, but I'm omitting him for now until he does show he can be healthy.
I think Yzerman can get the roster he wants, but he'll have to pay for it to do so. Meanwhile I think Montreal can just keep the ship on course with what they have and trade from a large surplus of prospects without hampering their ability consistently bring on younger talent to the main roster.
Lafleurs Guy
Guuuuuuuy!
- Jul 20, 2007
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I love this thread.
Reminds me of the ‘Is Slafkovsky the Worst Number One Pick Ever?’ from last year.
I’m just gonna sit back, read and smile.
Canadiens Ghost
Mr. Objectivity
Yup, love it also. All the haters and ignoramuses will be in for rude awakening in about 2-3 years.
Prairie Habs
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- Oct 3, 2010
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Strange how people feel the habs being 1 point out of the top 16 should invalidate a cup finals run, but had no issues in 18-19 when the habs missed the playoffs while finishing 14th in the league with 96 points, ahead of 3 western playoff team by as much as 6 points. The playoff structure is what it is. Sometimes it works in your favour and sometimes it doesn't.
As someone from Vancouver, though, you should probably try and avoid minimizing the value of a cup finals appearance considering that's literally the high water mark the Canucks have achieved in their entire history.
No need to make it personal. I’m a long time Habs fan (before you were born) but I’m also a realist.
The Covid year was exciting for all of us. But those of us who are more objective new that was a miracle run in a year that was an anomaly.
Team_Spirit
95% Elliotte
- Jul 3, 2002
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The last 2 games of the season April 15th and 16th Habs vs Wings
Detroit will probably need the 4pts to secure wild card #2
Detroit will probably need the 4pts to secure wild card #2
The Gr8 Dane
L'harceleur
and i sure hope they beat us! they are 6 years ahead of us in their rebuild . we need to tank!
Selke is as important in playoffs as Art Ross.
Stone and Pietrangelo are certainly at that level.
Nothing anomalous about an underdog making the playoffs and winning three playoff rounds. Happens almost every season. In fact, without the Habs' compressed Covid schedule and massive injury hit, they probably finish even higher. When you look at the roster, you realize it was much better than people realized – unfortunately, most of their best players were injured for the final month, so their regular season record was mediocre.
The real problem with the roster was that it was unsustainable. Price, Weber, Petry, Toffoli, Perry, Danault, Lehkonen, Suzuki, Caufield, and a still-good Gallagher were terrific, but all but the last three players disappeared the following season, forcing the Habs into a proper rebuild.
I fully concede there are still a lot of question marks around Detroit right now, and I personally agree that the roster and prospect pool lack a truly elite offensive player ...but I've seen this sentiment a decent amount in this thread and I'm confused. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places, but I have yet to see an analysis online saying Montreal has a better prospect pool (which makes sense! Detroit's been drafting in the top 10 for 4 years!).
I'm certainly cognizant of the possibility of hometown bias clouding my view, but I don't get this argument.
Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Beezeral
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cool, so you are going to spout a homer take then not even try to back it up with a why or how.
Fatass
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Beezeral
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1) The Habs finished 18th in the NHL with 59 points in 56 games while two teams missed the playoffs with 60 points
2) that stat is irrelevant regardless because the divisions were insulated with no crossover play.
3) the North was by far the weakest of the 4 divisions that year.
The Habs run was fun but a complete and utter fluke.
and yet TB is the legitimate winner of that cup. Right? Or how about if Vancouver had been in that year's stanley cup final? Illegitimate too?
No team flukes it through 3+ rounds. Context matters. Habs were literally wrecked by covid that year. Carey Price was also injured. The division had an atrocious travel schedule.
Montreal came together at the right time.
nope
Seriously, it is so annoying to see people talk about the 2021 SCF of the Habs. ''They got lucky'' ''covid SCF''. They still finished 4pts above Calgary in standing.
What about Florida last year? They barely finished 1 pts above Pittsburgh and Buffalo. They made the playoff because Pittsburgh lost to Chicago of all team.
They beat one of the best team in the league to make it to the final (Vegas). Only to lose to a super team with 3 future hall of famers (Stamkos, Kucherov and Vasy). 35m over the cap. But sure, the ''got lucky''.
How?
1) Dach returns next year. I know....I know....injuries and all that jazz. He is only one player. I get it.
Dach returns to our 2nd line centre role. Many Habs watchers thought he was trending to be our number 1 centre last year, ahead of Suzuki. He looked that good at times. He is underrated and forgotten around these parts. Him arriving, allows us to move Caufield down to the second line to form 2 x dynamic duos. Slaf and Suzuki + Dach and Caufield.
2) Slaf for the past 2 to 3 months has been on a 70 point pace and is showing no signs of slowing down. I expect his upward trajectory to continue.
3) We have draft capital and young defensive depth with which we can use to add another top 6 forward. Zegras gets mentioned in HfHabs, but it doesn't have to necessarily be him. I suspect that Hughes has another Dach/Newhook trade coming this off season.
4) We have two young players with 20 goal potential in Newhook and Roy who can fill that other top 6 role. Newhook without injuries would have hit 20. He may anchor that third line next year (or second if we don't land the trade above). Roy, I believe if paired with Suzuki and Slaf could challenge for ROY - ambitious, I know, but hey I am a homer.
5) We have cap space. Not only can we try to package draft capital + one of our young defensemen, we also have the cap space to make a splash on the FA market.
6) wily vets. Okay....we all know Gally and Anderson are overpaid and simply bad this year. But, really are they too bad to be fourth line guys? Not on any team. Both play with speed and a little but of grit, and I for one am happy with them on our 4th line, until we need to dump them and free up the space they are eating in a year or two.
7) Young studs on defence.....Not our strongest area....yet.....but Guhle, Reinbacher, Xhekaj, Mailloux and Hutson all have high ceilings. Mailloux has been one of the best D in the AHL. Hutson dominates NCAA for two straight years. Xhekaj will keep you honest. Guhle has shut down freaking McDavid everytime we play them.
8) Sure we don't have Cossa. But, we have two very capable goalies who have been playing beyond their pay grade this year. Monty and Primeau are hungry to make their mark in the NHL. Both have been solid and are just fine. In the wings, we have Fowler and Dobes. Dobes was great in the AHL this year, and Fowler is an NCAA star.
For next year.....I am putting a lot of our success on Dach's ability to spread out the scoring lines.
For the future. We have depth in all positions except forward (which I expect with our first pick).
So this is my homer take.....and this is also how and why. Now....let's wait and see.
What shortcuts did the Habs take?
Full blown rebuilds don't work, when is the last time this worked? Probably the Pens or the Hawks. Since then all the teams that took the full blown rebuild failed. Oilers took an eternity and got lucky landing on the best player since Gretzky. Leafs also took an eternity and we all know their record in the series since and then you have the Sabres, Sens and Coyotes that built loosing culture and can't get out of it.
I guess the Devils could be an exemple of a rebuilt that worked but still look at where they ar this year.
I like the Habs rebuild because even though they are getting top 10 picks, they still focus on having a winning culture and they did a tremendous job turning assets in high picks allowing them to pickup quality players with the same age group as their young core of Suzuki, Caufield and Ghule.
