Where Does Caufield - Suzuki - Slafkovsky - Demidov Rank As A Core?

[NikolaTesla]

1C simply by the player existing is a way of thinking.

I know but by definition number 1 C are the players who centers the first line of a team. So theres in theory exactly 32 #1C in the league.

But i understand that some teams don't have a legitimate #1C but having 17 teams not having a legitimate #1C is ridiculous.

If the world cannot provide more than 15 #1C then that means that our definition of a #1C is just too strict and should be loonsened a bit to make it so that theres around 32 number 1 C in the league.

Some teams have 2 (Edmonton for example) and some teams have zero. But the total number should be close to the number of teams in the league, not less than half that amount.

Imo, Suzuki is a legit #1C. He's almost 1PPG, very responsible defensively and a great leader. And he's an ironman too (very underrated aspect of a #1C).

 

[Frank Drebin]

1C simply by the player existing is a way of thinking.

As opposed to an arbitrary threshold where a player qualifies as a 1C and that number could be 6 or 16 or 36?

32 teams, top 32 centers in the league are 1C regardless of where they play on their respective rosters.

if you have the 30th best center in the league, and he's your best center, you don't have a very good 1C.

If you your best center is the 40th best center in the league you don't have a 1c.

Most cup winning teams have 2 top line centers, by this definition.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I expect 25 year old demidov to be better than 21 year old sanderson was

hehe with the comparison.

 

[Mr Kot]

Right now middle of the pack, just because I think it will take a few years more before they gel and excel. Also, D core is looing really promising too. Will probably be top 5 at the end of the rebuild.

 

[Golden_Jet]

59 people voted and not a single one voted "top five". usually there is at least someone who chooses the most hyped option.

4 habs fans have now chosen top 5

 

[Sting]

Quite honestly I think it's a good core, not a great one. They are missing a #1 D, a #1G, and a true #1C (although I do think with enough depth, Suzuki can fill in as their 1).

Building out from the wings doesn't usually work out so well. I'm also getting the picture from the fanbase that every one of their prospects is going to hit their ceiling. We all know how unlikely that is.

I think if they stay the course, draft well over the next 2-3 years and get lucky with some players, they can become a "great" core. I still don't think they make it out of the basement of the Atlantic with their current lineup.

 

[Xirik]

4 habs fans have now chosen top 5

and I was so proud of them.

then again it is the usual suspects.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Caufield shouldn't be anywhere near regarded as a core player.

 

[dgibb10]

hehe with the comparison.

Again.

Since I am not going to project every teams core out like 5 years. Most guys will have contracts expire, age out, develop, trades, lotteries etc, it is impossible to predict what a core will look like down the line for every team.

So I am using the current state of the NHL, with the best 4 players from those teams, as a baseline for what it takes to be at a certain level among NHL cores.

That way, I only have to project forward 4 players, as opposed to having to project the state of the entire NHL a half decade down the line.

For example, Brady Tkachuk has 4 years left on his contract. He may leave as a UFA, or he may even demand a trade sooner if things don't go well.

In general, the projection is:

Mid tier 1C for Suzuki
PPG+ power forward for Slaf
100 point defensively limited winger for Demidov
30-70 guy who struggles significantly defensively for Caufield

Now, these are likely optimistic projections towards the ceilings for demidov and slaf.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Again.

Since I am not going to project every teams core out like 5 years. Most guys will have contracts expire, age out, develop, trades, lotteries etc, it is impossible to predict what a core will look like down the line for every team.

So I am using the current state of the NHL, with the best 4 players from those teams, as a baseline for what it takes to be at a certain level among NHL cores.

That way, I only have to project forward 4 players, as opposed to having to project the state of the entire NHL a half decade down the line.

For example, Brady Tkachuk has 4 years left on his contract. He may leave as a UFA, or he may even demand a trade sooner if things don't go well.

In general, the projection is:

Mid tier 1C for Suzuki
PPG+ power forward for Slaf
100 point defensively limited winger for Demidov
30-70 guy who struggles significantly defensively for Caufield

Now, these are likely optimistic projections towards the ceilings for demidov and slaf.

I was laughing at comparing Demidov D+7 to Sanderson D+3

 

[dgibb10]

I was laughing at comparing Demidov D+7 to Sanderson D+3

Once again, you misunderstood the post.

You show time and again a shocking lack of reading comprehension.

Again:
Instead of trying to predict 32 cores into the future, predict development curves of all top prospects, the aging curves of all veterans, which guys will leave, which guys will get drafted where, who will get traded within the next half decade, etc.

I am looking at the current state of the league based on last year.

The top 4 players from each of the teams, as an ESTIMATE, of how good a core will need to be to be at whatever placement.

For example, if I think the 10th best core in hockey last year was Winnipeg. Then, if I think that MTL's core in the future will be around as good as what WPG had this past year, then I think MTL's core will rank around 10th. (once again this is just an example thrown out).

 

[Golden_Jet]

Once again, you misunderstood the post.

You show time and again a shocking lack of reading comprehension.

Again:
Instead of trying to predict 32 cores into the future, predict development curves of all top prospects, the aging curves of all veterans, which guys will leave, which guys will get drafted where, who will get traded within the next half decade, etc.

I am looking at the current state of the league based on last year.

The top 4 players from each of the teams, as an ESTIMATE, of how good a core will need to be to be at whatever placement.

For example, if I think the 10th best core in hockey last year was Winnipeg. Then, if I think that MTL's core in the future will be around as good as what WPG had this past year, then I think MTL's core will rank around 10th. (once again this is just an example thrown out).

You’re looking at Demidov in 7 years at age 25, and Sanderson at age 21
Sanderson is not going to age over the next 4 years. Shouldn’t you be comparing them 4 years out.

fyi looking at 4 years out Demidov will be 22 not 25

 

[dgibb10]

You’re looking at Demidov in 7 years at age 25, and Sanderson at age 21
Sanderson is not going to age over the next 4 years. Shouldn’t you be comparing them 4 years out.

fyi looking at 4 years out Demidov will be 22 not 25

Once again, you have failed to read.

Since the thread asked about MTL.

In order to do what you are suggesting I would have to:

Predict the destination AND outcome of draft picks 1-2 years out. (impossible with the lottery).
Predict how top prospects for all teams in the NHL who have never played a game will pan out.
Predict the development curves of young stars such as Sanderson
Predict the aging curves of older players in their late 20s and predict when they will fall off.
Predict where players who's contracts are expiring will sign
Predict any blockbuster trades that could fundamentally change cores (eg the matthew tkachuk trade)

For all 32 teams.

Most people could do it easily for their own team. Probably a couple of other teams, and if they wanted to look deeper on a case by case basis they probably could for any single team. But not the entire landscape.

So instead, I looked at the CURRENT NHL LANDSCAPE to ask the question. "how good does a core have to be to be above average.

So I looked at the Atlantic division and see who had the best top 4 last year/currently on their roster

Panthers currently best
Tampa probably 2nd
Toronto probably 3rd
Boston probably 4th

GAP

Detroit probably 5th
Buffalo probably 6th
Ottawa probably 7th

GAP
MTL 100% last rn

And so to be an average team, looking at the buffalo detroit and ottawa cores.

Suzuki lines up approximately evenly with what Tage, Stutzle, and Larkin
Caufield I'm not high on, but I'd say he lines up with Cozens, Batherson, and Raymond right now.
Slaf I'm pretty optimistic on, he can 100% reach or surpass the range of what Tuch, Tkachuk, and Debrincat are now

Demidov is the weird one, as he's a winger and the other core guys are dmen in Dahlin, Sanderson, and Seider.

So in all, if Demidov and Slaf hit, they fall right into the middle of the pack range for core 4s, probably above detroit but certainly not getting to the Pasta McAvoy Swayman Marchand level.

And so I project them around there. As an average core

 

[Xirik]

@Golden_Jet

Since you seem to think gib's projection is terrible why not share you're own?

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

42

 

[Bouboumaster]

GOAT line

 

[Xirik]

GOAT line

It naturally would be since its four players on a line instead of the usual three

Where Does Caufield - Suzuki - Slafkovsky - Demidov Rank As A Core?​

Unless you are talking about the Powerplay UNIT or one of them is going to play defense.

 

[Bouboumaster]

It naturally would be since its four players on a line instead of the usual three

Where Does Caufield - Suzuki - Slafkovsky - Demidov Rank As A Core?​

Unless you are talking about the Powerplay UNIT or one of them is going to play defense.

GOAT Core

See, it's easily corrected

Like, you already know what I meant anyway

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Demidov have 90-100 pts potential, his floor is still very very high aswell, 60-75 pts per year it's likely is floor. I think his skillset are too good to don't put PGG's seasons and more.

I'm not going to knock your "ceiling" projections (even if they're high), but the bolded is ... wishful thinking to believe that a FLOOR of a non-generational type prospect is that of a top line scorer.

 

[KevSkillz4]

I'm not going to knock your "ceiling" projections (even if they're high), but the bolded is ... wishful thinking to believe that a FLOOR of a non-generational type prospect is that of a top line scorer.

60-65 pts it's likely more a 2nd line. I see his floor as a 2nd line player.

His skillset are too good to don't become that at worst.

 

[Xirik]

60-65 pts it's likely more a 2nd line. I see his floor as a 2nd line player.

His skillset are too good to don't become that at worst.

problem being you said 60-75 not 60-65.

 

[dgibb10]

60-65 pts it's likely more a 2nd line. I see his floor as a 2nd line player.

His skillset are too good to don't become that at worst.

Just want to clarify that you see cole caufield as a 2nd line player?

 

[KevSkillz4]

Just want to clarify that you see cole caufield as a 2nd line player?

If he score 35-40 goals per year, he is a 1st line talent, I think he can put more than 65 pts in his best year.

But he will likely to play on the 2nd line with Kirby Dach when Demidov will coming.

 

[Golden_Jet]

@Golden_Jet

Since you seem to think gib's projection is terrible why not share you're own?

It’s a bad projection, because no where in OP does it say to project 4/5 years out.

If you compare that group of four to the best four player assets other organizations have where would this core rank?

 

[Xirik]

It’s a bad projection, because no where in OP does it say to project 4/5 years out.

If you compare that group of four to the best four player assets other organizations have where would this core rank?

So you won't make your own projections.

Demidov isn't in the NHL and I doubt he will come into the league guns blazing so it seems pretty obvious you have to try to guess the future.

At this point it just seems like your jealous at Gibb's ability to make content while all you seem to do is criticize.