Where Does Caufield - Suzuki - Slafkovsky - Demidov Rank As A Core?
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Golden_Jet
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- Sep 21, 2005
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why would I project out 4-5 years when thread never asked for that lol.
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dirtydanglez
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- Oct 30, 2022
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top 20-25. aside from suzuki no one else has reached a high level of play consistently. there's some potental there.
What exactly defines a core? Picking 4 players seems like an arbitrary number. But I guess OP is a Leafs fan and they seem to like having a "core 4" who are paid as if they are all top 12 in the league.
Is it possible that the Habs truly have a core 7 or even 8 when all is done?
I'll rank our top 7 based on potential to highlight what I mean.
Slaf - sky continues to be the limit. Elite power forward potential.
Demidov - Has the potential to be a Kuch or Kaprizov type player.
Hutson - Record setting NCAA player. Could he reach Hughes, Makar, Fox levels or is he more of a Victor Mete. Time will tell.
Suzuki - 25 years old and in his prime. PPG is within reach this year.
Dach - we forget him based off injuries....but he had potential to surpass Suzuki 16 months ago.
Caufield - he is what he is. 30-40 goal potential.
Reinbacher - top pair elite two way defender potential. Again we shall see.
The OP listed 4 guys for our Core. Those 4 core players could be anyone above, or it could be all 7 for all we know. Habs are sitting pretty right now and I'm excited for the future. I voted top 5....but truthfully it's a crapshoot and impossible to predict with 100 percent accuracy.
Is it possible that the Habs truly have a core 7 or even 8 when all is done?
I'll rank our top 7 based on potential to highlight what I mean.
Slaf - sky continues to be the limit. Elite power forward potential.
Demidov - Has the potential to be a Kuch or Kaprizov type player.
Hutson - Record setting NCAA player. Could he reach Hughes, Makar, Fox levels or is he more of a Victor Mete. Time will tell.
Suzuki - 25 years old and in his prime. PPG is within reach this year.
Dach - we forget him based off injuries....but he had potential to surpass Suzuki 16 months ago.
Caufield - he is what he is. 30-40 goal potential.
Reinbacher - top pair elite two way defender potential. Again we shall see.
The OP listed 4 guys for our Core. Those 4 core players could be anyone above, or it could be all 7 for all we know. Habs are sitting pretty right now and I'm excited for the future. I voted top 5....but truthfully it's a crapshoot and impossible to predict with 100 percent accuracy.
- Jun 22, 2018
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We don’t know what montreals core is yet
Could end up being Slaf, Demidov, Hutson, Fowler for all we know
Could end up being Slaf, Demidov, Hutson, Fowler for all we know
HisNoodliness
Good things come to those who wait
I project them to be an above average core, maybe around ~10 when developed. Teams that are more established obviously get a boost, so right now I would put Montreal somewhere around 20 off the top of my head.
I think your management has been killing it in Montreal recently. They're going to need to keep killing it before I fear the Habs as a future contender.
I think your management has been killing it in Montreal recently. They're going to need to keep killing it before I fear the Habs as a future contender.
Top 5 is pretty crazy.
For example if you look at the current landscape of what it takes to be a top 10 core
You generally have a top 2 with guys like McAvoy/Pasta, McDrai, Robertson/Heiskanen, Panarin/Fox, Nylander/Matthews, Point/Kucherov, Hughes/Hischier, Pettersson/Hughes, Tkachuk/Barkov, Mackinnon/Makar.
And usually those teams have guys above the caufield/suzuki combo as well like Swayman/Marchand, Bouchard/Hyman, Hintz/Johnson, Shesterkin//Mika, Marner/Reilly, Hedman/Guentzel, Bratt/Hamilton, Miller/Boeser, Reinhart/Verhaeghe, or Rantanen/Toews.
So you're needing Slaf and Demidov to be BETTER than more than half of the duos listed up top to cut it.
Or not......Let's take the Leafs for example and compare the Habs. For arguments sake and sticking with a core 4 scenario....lets say the Leafs core 4 are Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Reilly. Do the Habs best two players need to be better than the Leafs best 2 players? No. What if the rankings are something like this in a couple of years....
Matthews
Nylander
Marner
Slaf
Demi
Suzuki
Hutson
Caufield
Dach
Reinbacher
Reilly
Not withstanding, the fact that you would have the top 3 out of. that group...would you rather have the core 4 Leafs, or core 7 Habs, if that is how the team was made up.
All of these things are hypothetical of course. And in two years time, Slaf may prove himself to be among the elite power forwards in the game.
I like the depth we are building and I am not really thinking of it as a core 4 type scenario. I am thinking about 7-9 guys (I add Guhle and Mailloux but purposefully left them out of my initial post) as guys that I want to build around. A core 5 at forward (Slaf, Demi, Suzuki, Caufield, Dach) and core 4 on D (Hutson, Rein, Guhle, Mailloux).
You are right....we have no idea....but why just a core four. If they are all being paid under 8 million dollars we could have a core 10.
Slaf, Suzuki, Demi, Hutson, Caufield, Dach, Mailloux, Guhle, Reinbacher, Fowler.
Our four best players could be any grouping of those guys in 2-3 years. It is a nice problem to have.
Again.....if.....
Matthews/Nylander/Marner/Reilly is better than Slaf/Suzuki/Demi/Hutson
but......
Caufield/Dach/Rein/Guhle/Mailloux/Fowler is FAR better than Knies/Domi/Tavares/Tanev/McCabe/Woll
It is a toss up IMO. We are ultimately dealing in hypotheticals though. We are much less a finished product than most teams. Suzuki is likely the only one who is currently at his peak with a few more years at that level. All other talent we have is younger, with less certainty on what their peak will look like. I am very excited for Slaf this year.
- Jul 25, 2012
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Ya core is tough the 4 he listed all have upside…. It’s also winger heavy(which I’d say isn’t ideal for building a core)… prob shoulda taken caufield out and threw in 1 of their dmen like Hutson Reinbacher or guhle.
Even if we’re talking forward only, I’d prob like to see a better center situation.
Suzuki is a 1c, but I think would be better suited at 2c. He has kinda exceeded expectations so far, and maybe he shows he can bring more offense as the team around him improves.
Dach is a lot of questionmarks…. Maybe he find some consistency and becomes a solid 1-2 punch with Suzuki but he’s going to have to show that before anyone jumps on that wagon.
Fair assessment. We may not have a top 20 centremen in the league.
If to make up for that, we somehow had a 20-32 overall centre (Suzuki) and a 25-40 overall centre (Dach) and a 50-64 overall centre (Beck or Hage). Than I would be fine with that.
My point is ultimately we are still building something. I am happy with our direction. Would I love that top 10 centre? absolutely. But....I'd be stoked if we ended up with the other scenario I presented.
John Garretts KD
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- Aug 4, 2024
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It’s very early and my post will likely age like milk, but in terms of the future (when teams like Tampa Bay have their core aged out), I have them behind:
Anaheim (Carlsson, Gauthier, McTavish, Mintyukov/Zellweger);
Chicago (Bedard, Levshunov, Korchinski, Vlasic/Boisvert/Vanacker/Moore/Nazar/Rinzel);
Colorado (MacKinnon, Makar, Rantanen, Landeskog/Mittelstadt/Toews/etc.);
Dallas (Hintz, Robertson, Heiskanen, Johnston/Stankoven/Bourque/Oettinger);
Edmonton (McDavid, Draisaitl, Bouchard, Hyman/RNH/Ekholm);
Florida (Barkov, Tkachuk, Reinhart, Forsling/Bennett/Lundell/Ekblad);
Minnesota (Kaprizov, Eriksson Ek, Faber, Boldy/Rossi/Wallstedt);
New Jersey (Hughes x 2, Hischier, Nemec/Silayev/Casey/Bratt/Meier/Hamilton);
San Jose (Celebrini, Smith, Dickinson, Musty/Eklund/Bystedt/Mukhamadullin);
Vancouver (Hughes, Pettersson, Demko, Boeser/Miller/Hronek);
Arguable:
Buffalo (Thompson, Dahlin, Power/Byram/Benson/Quinn/etc.)
Columbus (Fantilli, Jiricek, Lindstrom, Johnson/Sillinger/Mateychuk/Marchenko/etc.);
Detroit (Seider, Larkin, Raymond, Danielson/Edvinsson/Sandin-Pellika/Kasper/Cossa/DeBrincat);
LA (Byfield, Fiala, Clarke, Kempe);
NYR (Lafreniere, Fox, Schneider, Perrault/Othmann);
Ottawa (Tkachuk, Stutzle, Sanderson, Chabot/Norris/Batherson/Ullmark);
Philadelphia (Michkov, Konecny, Sanheim, Tippett/Drysdale/Bonk/Luchanko);
Seattle (Beniers, Dunn, Wright, Catton/Sale)
Toronto (Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Knies/Rielly);
Utah (Cooley, Sergachev, Iginla, Guenther/Beaudoin/Hayton/Keller);
Vegas (Eichel, Hertl, Stone, Hanifin/Pietrangelo/Theodore).
So definitely not top 10. Somewhere between 11 - 22.
Anaheim (Carlsson, Gauthier, McTavish, Mintyukov/Zellweger);
Chicago (Bedard, Levshunov, Korchinski, Vlasic/Boisvert/Vanacker/Moore/Nazar/Rinzel);
Colorado (MacKinnon, Makar, Rantanen, Landeskog/Mittelstadt/Toews/etc.);
Dallas (Hintz, Robertson, Heiskanen, Johnston/Stankoven/Bourque/Oettinger);
Edmonton (McDavid, Draisaitl, Bouchard, Hyman/RNH/Ekholm);
Florida (Barkov, Tkachuk, Reinhart, Forsling/Bennett/Lundell/Ekblad);
Minnesota (Kaprizov, Eriksson Ek, Faber, Boldy/Rossi/Wallstedt);
New Jersey (Hughes x 2, Hischier, Nemec/Silayev/Casey/Bratt/Meier/Hamilton);
San Jose (Celebrini, Smith, Dickinson, Musty/Eklund/Bystedt/Mukhamadullin);
Vancouver (Hughes, Pettersson, Demko, Boeser/Miller/Hronek);
Arguable:
Buffalo (Thompson, Dahlin, Power/Byram/Benson/Quinn/etc.)
Columbus (Fantilli, Jiricek, Lindstrom, Johnson/Sillinger/Mateychuk/Marchenko/etc.);
Detroit (Seider, Larkin, Raymond, Danielson/Edvinsson/Sandin-Pellika/Kasper/Cossa/DeBrincat);
LA (Byfield, Fiala, Clarke, Kempe);
NYR (Lafreniere, Fox, Schneider, Perrault/Othmann);
Ottawa (Tkachuk, Stutzle, Sanderson, Chabot/Norris/Batherson/Ullmark);
Philadelphia (Michkov, Konecny, Sanheim, Tippett/Drysdale/Bonk/Luchanko);
Seattle (Beniers, Dunn, Wright, Catton/Sale)
Toronto (Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Knies/Rielly);
Utah (Cooley, Sergachev, Iginla, Guenther/Beaudoin/Hayton/Keller);
Vegas (Eichel, Hertl, Stone, Hanifin/Pietrangelo/Theodore).
So definitely not top 10. Somewhere between 11 - 22.
Bottom half imo. People always assume that prospects reach their maximum potential which is rarely the case. And who even knows if those 4 end up being the core. There’s just so much that can happen which is why like most I place a higher value on proven performance in most cases.
lol.....we havent seen what he is capable of yet because he's been so damn injured. Let's revisit this in 9 months.
We've seen him struggle to put up competent 5v5 production across his career, despite being given great linemates and opportunity.
We've also seen him fail to put up even respectable possession numbers at any point in his career, outside of a brief stretch playing as a winger on Suzuki's line
His best ability is playing on a PP. A PP he won't even be on behind Suzuki Caufield Slaf and Demidov
All good......Im not sitting here looking for an argument. Nor, will I try and argue these points above. I will say that he was looking like the better of the two between himself and Suzuki from January 2023 until the end of that season, for a large portions of the games.
I have high hopes. Hopefully he matches those and surprises you. He is still young, and a relative unknown as to what his potential is.
Checks notes:
45% xGoals share without suzuki in the new year
55% xGoals share with suzuki
Ahh but he had a 0.955 SV% behind him without suzuki. There it is. The goaltending masterclass to cover up all the mistakes and fool the eye test.
Zero clue what xGoals share means. Im assuming it also calculates who else was on the ice as well? So definitively you feel correct and a winner of these points. Congratulations. MY POINT....again....is we don't know what we have in Dach quite yet. Suzuki we can predict with a fair degree of certainty. It is far less certain with Dach. I don't have any fancy stats that show someones development curve, and I don't like Bader's model.....so we will just have to wait to find out.
Golden_Jet
Registered User
- Sep 21, 2005
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Is that a big deal though? Top 5??
Look at the leafs for instance, having one of the best core offences out there, and can't win a thing.....
20 pieces to a team.
Habs young core are way too young to evaluate properly.
You'd think someone who's goaltender was Korpisalo last year would like a metric that can take goaltender performance out of the equation.
The Gr8 Dane
L'harceleur
Exactly , not to mention not a single one of our Dmen are part of the *core* in this poll.
I got no problem with us being middle of the pack *core* in terms of top 3 players if they can win something down the line. I like the way the team is being built
Tanknation
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- Feb 24, 2012
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