Where Does Caufield - Suzuki - Slafkovsky - Demidov Rank As A Core?

[KevinRedkey]

Unless you're someone on Bedard's level (or better), it's really tough to guage how effective a newly drafted player will be, and how soon that will happen. We aren;t even usre he will play C at the NHL level, which makes a pretty massive difference in ranking this core IMO.

 

[NikolaTesla]

Not impressed by Caufield and Suzuki is a 2C.

Meh.

How many 1C is there in the league in your opinion?

 

[dgibb10]

Just gonna look through the atlantic current cores (THIS IS BASED ON CURRENT LEVEL OF OTHER TEAMS, AND PROJECTED LEVELS FOR MTL) as a sort of baseline as an estimate of what level of talent it will take to be an above average core

Toronto: Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Reilly: Matthews>Slaf, Marner=Demidov, Nylander>Suzuki, Reilly=Caufield
Boston: Pasta, McAvoy, Marchand, Swayman: Pasta>Slaf, McAvoy>Demidov, Marchand<Suzuki, Swayman>Caufield
Buffalo: Dahlin, Tage, Tuch, Cozens: Dahlin>Slaf, Tage<Demidov, Tuch<Suzuki, Cozens>Caufield
Florida: do I even have to?
Detroit: Seider=Slaf, Demidov>Raymond, Larkin=Suzuki, Debrincat>Caufield
Ottawa: Tkachuk=Slaf, Demidov>Sanderson, Stutzle=Suzuki, Caufield>Batherson
MTL: obviously will be better than they are currently
Tampa: Point>Slaf, Kucherov>Demidov, Hedman=Suzuki, Guentzel>Caufield

I take tampa, boston, florida, and Tampa
I give MTL the edge over Ottawa, Buffalo, MTL, and Detroit.

So they likely rank somewhere around the average.

Going off the dome their projected core (if placed into the current landscape) would be behind NJD, Car, NYR, Edmonton, Dallas, Colorado, Minnesota, WPG, vancouver, vegas.

Right around the 15 mark makes sense to me

 

[Xspyrit]

I am curious where YOU rank them?

What core 4 are better?

It has the potential to be better than which Atlantic cores?

Pastrnak, McAvoy, Lindholm, Lindholm
Dahlin, Thompson, Cozens, Tuch/Power/Peterka/Byram
Seider, Raymond, Larkin, DeBrincat/Edvinsson
Barkov, Tkachuk, Reinhart, Forsling (lundell/Ekblad)
Stutzle, Sanderson, Tkachuk, Chabot/Batherson
Kucherov, Point, Hedman, Guentzel/Hagel
Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Rielly/Tavares

 

[Heldig]

It has the potential to be better than which Atlantic cores?

Pastrnak, McAvoy, Lindholm, Lindholm
Dahlin, Thompson, Cozens, Tuch/Power/Peterka/Byram
Seider, Raymond, Larkin, DeBrincat/Edvinsson
Barkov, Tkachuk, Reinhart, Forsling (lundell/Ekblad)
Stutzle, Sanderson, Tkachuk, Chabot/Batherson
Kucherov, Point, Hedman, Guentzel/Hagel
Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Rielly/Tavares

Right now I would rank them 6th in that group. Ahead of only Buffalo.

In a couple years that could very well change. Montreal's group is so young.

 

[MNRube]

Habs blueline is more promising than the forwards IMO. Demidov is talented but he hasn’t played the KHL yet. It’s a middle of the road core amongst rebuilding teams. Nice depth but still not a single proven star unless you count Suzuki

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Just gonna look through the atlantic current cores (THIS IS BASED ON CURRENT LEVEL OF OTHER TEAMS, AND PROJECTED LEVELS FOR MTL) as a sort of baseline as an estimate of what level of talent it will take to be an above average core

Toronto: Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Reilly: Matthews>Slaf, Marner=Demidov, Nylander>Suzuki, Reilly=Caufield
Boston: Pasta, McAvoy, Marchand, Swayman: Pasta>Slaf, McAvoy>Demidov, Marchand<Suzuki, Swayman>Caufield
Buffalo: Dahlin, Tage, Tuch, Cozens: Dahlin>Slaf, Tage<Demidov, Tuch<Suzuki, Cozens>Caufield
Florida: do I even have to?
Detroit: Seider=Slaf, Demidov>Raymond, Larkin=Suzuki, Debrincat>Caufield
Ottawa: Tkachuk=Slaf, Demidov>Sanderson, Stutzle=Suzuki, Caufield>Batherson
MTL: obviously will be better than they are currently
Tampa: Point>Slaf, Kucherov>Demidov, Hedman=Suzuki, Guentzel>Caufield

I take tampa, boston, florida, and Tampa
I give MTL the edge over Ottawa, Buffalo, MTL, and Detroit.

So they likely rank somewhere around the average.

Going off the dome their projected core (if placed into the current landscape) would be behind NJD, Car, NYR, Edmonton, Dallas, Colorado, Minnesota, WPG, vancouver, vegas.

Right around the 15 mark makes sense to me

Crazy that Demidov is >tage sanderson, raymond equal to marner

 

[Xspyrit]

Right now I would rank them 6th in that group. Ahead of only Buffalo.

In a couple years that could very well change. Montreal's group is so young.

Personally I would say only Detroit but eventually Tampa Bay then Boston and Toronto as these cores get older

Also, I would compare Top-2 centers + Top-2 D-men + Top-2 Wingers, a "core 6"

Crazy that Demidov is >tage sanderson, raymond equal to marner

It's also useless to not compare by position...

 

[Heldig]

Personally I would say only Detroit but eventually Tampa Bay then Boston and Toronto as these cores get older

Also, I would compare Top-2 centers + Top-2 D-men + Top-2 Wingers, a "core 6"



It's also useless to not compare by position...

My issue with the Montreal list is that there is no D included and no goalie.

Maybe to properly compare, the CORE needs to include 3 forwards, a D and a G? So a CORE 5?

 

[Xspyrit]

My issue with the Montreal list is that there is no D included and no goalie.

Maybe to properly compare, the CORE needs to include 3 forwards, a D and a G? So a CORE 5?

Could be 3 forwards and 2 D-men too, but forget about goalies... it's obviously great to have a Sorokin or Demko but there is only 1 position to fill and it changes all the time.

 

[dgibb10]

Crazy that Demidov is >tage sanderson, raymond equal to marner

It was more of a "ceiling" type projection. Very optimistic.

Wanted to be nicer to habs fans though.

Also even despite that, I expect sanderson to improve tremendously. This is based on last year sanderson. Ergo I expect 25 year old demidov to be better than 21 year old sanderson was

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Right now today, I'm not even sure they're Top 25. Obviously they have upside to be better, but how much better remains to be seen. Personally not convinced its ever a Top 10 group honestly.

I especially dont like the fact 3 of them are wingers. Not what you want to be building around, maybe Demidov ends up a C.

 

[ZDH]

How many 1C is there in the league in your opinion?

True 1Cs? Its hurting out there. Like ~15 right now.

I'm not calling the Suzukis and the Kadris of the world 1Cs even if they are by default.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Middle pack
Looks like a great salary structure so that leaves room to improve

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

True 1Cs? Its hurting out there. Like ~15 right now.

I'm not calling the Suzukis and the Kadris of the world 1Cs even if they are by default.

There are fifteen 1Cs, but the player who finished top 15 in scoring among centers is not one of them?

 

[ZDH]

There are fifteen 1Cs, but the player who finished top 15 in scoring among centers is not one of them?

Not quite that simple. You've got other players who missed time, Larkin missed 14 games and almost matched Suzuki's numbers.

Eichel missed a quarter of the season and almost matched Suzuki's numbers.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

It was more of a "ceiling" type projection. Very optimistic.

Wanted to be nicer to habs fans though.

Also even despite that, I expect sanderson to improve tremendously. This is based on last year sanderson. Ergo I expect 25 year old demidov to be better than 21 year old sanderson was

Fair, but I feel like if your going high ceiling on Montreal players…. You should be going full ceiling on the teams you are comparing also.

 

[NikolaTesla]

True 1Cs? Its hurting out there. Like ~15 right now.

I'm not calling the Suzukis and the Kadris of the world 1Cs even if they are by default.

If you only have 15 1C in a 32 teams league then perhaps you need to lower your standards of what a 1C is to you.

 

[ZDH]

If you only have 15 1C in a 32 teams league then perhaps you need to lower your standards of what a 1C is to you.

Or perhaps Gary needs to stop adding f***ing teams.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Not quite that simple. You've got other players who missed time, Larkin missed 14 games and almost matched Suzuki's numbers.

Eichel missed a quarter of the season and almost matched Suzuki's numbers.

Larkin scored 69 pts in 68 games, how did he almost match Suzuki's number? Larkin's best seasons in the NHL are very similar to the season Suzuki just had. If you go by pts/game, Suzuki was 20th among centers last season and Larkin was 15th.

If you consider Larkin a 1C, then I don't see how it makes any sense for you to consider Suzuki a 2C.

 

[Xirik]

If you only have 15 1C in a 32 teams league then perhaps you need to lower your standards of what a 1C is to you.

1C simply by the player existing is a way of thinking.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Top ~20-25. Gotta realize how unproven they are still. Even the most proven guy, Suzuki, has just one season where he truly approaches 1C level.

As others have pointed out I also think it's not great that they are 3 wingers. If a Dach or Reinbacher break out and put themselves on that level it's not a problem, but again it's all unproven.

 

[biturbo19]

1C simply by the player existing is a way of thinking.

It certainly is. However, it's into the territory where it comes complicated to actually define a thing, usefully though.


To me, that's where a label like #1b is useful for Suzuki. He's in that sort of murky Krejci range, or even Bryan Little at his peak, who Suzuki kind of reminds me of a better skating version of. Really good players and ones that i enjoy watching a lot. Both of them actually favourite players of mine really. Both really strong offensively and not lacking at all defensively. But i still think you need that other piece to at least be their equal and complementary part, if not better. He seems to have great chemistry with Caufield, and Slafkovsky seemed to fill that out later in the year. But i'm just not sure he's a conventional true #1C in the sense that...he's going to absolute carry a line of complementary wingers, or that he's going to have the ceiling to elevate Slaf-Cauf into a true Cup-caliber #1 Line.


And it's not an insult. Like...Krejci at his Cup Caliber peak...it's hard to admit as a Canucks fan, but he was very arguably just as an important a piece as Bergeron. It just happened that their skillsets fit together absolutely perfectly.

 

[dgibb10]

Fair, but I feel like if your going high ceiling on Montreal players…. You should be going full ceiling on the teams you are comparing also.

Apologize if it was a bit confusing.

I'm using the CURRENT NHL landscape to see what it takes to be an above average core.

So Buffalo, Ottawa, Detroit etc core in terms of how good they are right now.

Some teams will find new core pieces, some top teams will age out, some bottom teams will blossom up, but the overall quality it takes to be a top 15 core should remain approximately the same.

And then I'm using projections for MTLs core 4 to compare to that.

It makes it much easier, I only have to project out 4 players, rather than having to project the development of a bunch of draft picks and prospects across the league, and guess when older players will start to decline, etc

 

[Fatass]

Core, imo, needs to include a D man and a goalie. So, even though these are good young players, I see them (as a core) lacking two key pieces and rank them bottom 5-10.