Where Does Caufield - Suzuki - Slafkovsky - Demidov Rank As A Core?

[Xirik]

Is that a big deal though? Top 5??
Look at the leafs for instance, having one of the best core offences out there, and can't win a thing.....

20 pieces to a team.

Habs young core are way too young to evaluate properly.

Exactly which is basically was hinting at with the 8th post in this thread.

 

[McVespa99]

I mean if you are counting a guy that has never played an Nhl game and is not named McDavid as part of the core you cant rate it that highly

 

[Sasso09]

18-20

Yeah, but Slaf and Demidov have star//superstar potential, so that's not replaceable players.

I don't see star quality in Slafkovsky and I don't see superstar in Demidov but that's tough to gauge with his weak competition.

Slaf 65-70
Demidov PPG

 

[bert]

3 wingers as a core is weak. Caufield really doesn't do it for me. He's tiny and think come playoff time he will really struggle in a prominent role. No elite C. Slaf will have to go full Hossa for it to be anything above average.

 

[Face Of Bear]

It's pretty bad

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

The habs core is a lot bigger than just those 4 players

Suzuki, Demidov, Slaf, Caufield, Dach, Hutson, Guhle, Reinbacher, Mailloux, and Fowler all have the potential to be core players.

 

[Dempsey]

Caufield = Eberle
Suzuki = Nugent-Hopkins
Slafkovsky = Hall
Demidov could = Yakupov for all we know. Probably not though.

Point is that every team has players this good. If you're gonna be building something big then you better have players that no teams can touch.

 

[HockeyWooot]

Top 15 likely, top 10 possibly.

 

[wetcoast]

If you compare that group of four to the best four player assets other organizations have (so for example, Smith and Celebrini would be considered for SJ even though they haven't debuted in the NHL yet), where would this core rank?

Are you comparing each teams best 4 young players overall including Dmen and goalies or just forwards as this changes the answer quite a bit IMO.

If it's overall it's going to be lower but if it includes only each team top 4 forwards young players then higher.

Ballparking overall it would be top 30ish I guess and maybe as high as low 20s if Slaf and Demidov really develop but I think Suzuki and CC don't have much more of a ceiling from what we see now.

If it's forwards maybe 15thish at best off the top of my head as there is only 1 center here.

 

[wetcoast]

Not impressed by Caufield and Suzuki is a 2C.

Meh.

I can see Suzuki being an elite #2 center though but I get what you mean probably 15 teams have a better young core center.

 

[wetcoast]

It has the potential to be better than which Atlantic cores?

Pastrnak, McAvoy, Lindholm, Lindholm
Dahlin, Thompson, Cozens, Tuch/Power/Peterka/Byram
Seider, Raymond, Larkin, DeBrincat/Edvinsson
Barkov, Tkachuk, Reinhart, Forsling (lundell/Ekblad)
Stutzle, Sanderson, Tkachuk, Chabot/Batherson
Kucherov, Point, Hedman, Guentzel/Hagel
Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Rielly/Tavares

Are we comparing only 4 forwards in the case of Montreal to other team other positions as well as forwards?

Anyways I don't really see the Habs core being better than anyone else in their division right now.

Voted top 25 as it's probably top 25ish until they show more and reasonable projections.

 

[Xspyrit]

There are fifteen 1Cs, but the player who finished top 15 in scoring among centers is not one of them?

Personally, I think it's smarter to look at the last 2 seasons combined in terms of PPG, also in terms of EVP (RNH, Guentzel, Stamkos, Reinhart, Verhaeghe and Pavelski barely played center last season so I removed them from the NHL.com ranking)

PPG :

1- McDavid
2- MacKinnon
5- Hughes
10- Barkov
11- Stützle
14- Thompson
15- Zibanejad
16- Larkin
20- Hintz
25- Nelson
26- Suzuki

EVP :

1- MacKinnon
2- McDavid
5- Draisaitl
9- Stützle
10- Nelson
15- Trocheck
18- Thompson
20- Barkov
25- Suzuki
30- Larkin

I think Suzuki is a #1C, albeit on the lower end. If he pulls another season like last year then he could rise through the ranks a bit. I also tracked Stützle, Larkin and Thompson since a certain poster said that "Suzuki lines up approximately evenly" with them

60-65 pts it's likely more a 2nd line. I see his floor as a 2nd line player.

His skillset are too good to don't become that at worst.

In the last 2 years, there has been a season of 60+ pts by a forward only 167 times

32 teams, 2 seasons, do the calculations. Not a lot of teams will have 60-65 pts players on their 2nd line.

Are we comparing only 4 forwards in the case of Montreal to other team other positions as well as forwards?

Anyways I don't really see the Habs core being better than anyone else in their division right now.

Voted top 25 as it's probably top 25ish until they show more and reasonable projections.

OP said "best four player assets"

For Montreal it doesn't change much unless one of Hutson or Reinbacher leapfrogs Caufield (assuming Slaf and Demidov become as good as projected)

 

[Xspyrit]

Or not......Let's take the Leafs for example and compare the Habs. For arguments sake and sticking with a core 4 scenario....lets say the Leafs core 4 are Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Reilly. Do the Habs best two players need to be better than the Leafs best 2 players? No. What if the rankings are something like this in a couple of years....

Matthews
Nylander
Marner
Slaf
Demi
Suzuki
Hutson
Caufield
Dach
Reinbacher
Reilly

Not withstanding, the fact that you would have the top 3 out of. that group...would you rather have the core 4 Leafs, or core 7 Habs, if that is how the team was made up.

It's not a comparison you can make because you're not comparing the same number of spots. You would have to compare it with something like :

Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Reilly, Knies, Liljegren, Cowan/Woll

It’s very early and my post will likely age like milk, but in terms of the future (when teams like Tampa Bay have their core aged out), I have them behind:

Anaheim (Carlsson, Gauthier, McTavish, Mintyukov/Zellweger);
Chicago (Bedard, Levshunov, Korchinski, Vlasic/Boisvert/Vanacker/Moore/Nazar/Rinzel);
Colorado (MacKinnon, Makar, Rantanen, Landeskog/Mittelstadt/Toews/etc.);
Dallas (Hintz, Robertson, Heiskanen, Johnston/Stankoven/Bourque/Oettinger);
Edmonton (McDavid, Draisaitl, Bouchard, Hyman/RNH/Ekholm);
Florida (Barkov, Tkachuk, Reinhart, Forsling/Bennett/Lundell/Ekblad);
Minnesota (Kaprizov, Eriksson Ek, Faber, Boldy/Rossi/Wallstedt);
New Jersey (Hughes x 2, Hischier, Nemec/Silayev/Casey/Bratt/Meier/Hamilton);
San Jose (Celebrini, Smith, Dickinson, Musty/Eklund/Bystedt/Mukhamadullin);
Vancouver (Hughes, Pettersson, Demko, Boeser/Miller/Hronek);

Arguable:

Buffalo (Thompson, Dahlin, Power/Byram/Benson/Quinn/etc.)
Columbus (Fantilli, Jiricek, Lindstrom, Johnson/Sillinger/Mateychuk/Marchenko/etc.);
Detroit (Seider, Larkin, Raymond, Danielson/Edvinsson/Sandin-Pellika/Kasper/Cossa/DeBrincat);
LA (Byfield, Fiala, Clarke, Kempe);
NYR (Lafreniere, Fox, Schneider, Perrault/Othmann);
Ottawa (Tkachuk, Stutzle, Sanderson, Chabot/Norris/Batherson/Ullmark);
Philadelphia (Michkov, Konecny, Sanheim, Tippett/Drysdale/Bonk/Luchanko);
Seattle (Beniers, Dunn, Wright, Catton/Sale)
Toronto (Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Knies/Rielly);
Utah (Cooley, Sergachev, Iginla, Guenther/Beaudoin/Hayton/Keller);
Vegas (Eichel, Hertl, Stone, Hanifin/Pietrangelo/Theodore).

So definitely not top 10. Somewhere between 11 - 22.

I could dig more stuff looking at this longer but the thing that immediately came to mind is :

Aho, Svechnikov, Slavin, Nikishin?

The habs core is a lot bigger than just those 4 players

Suzuki, Demidov, Slaf, Caufield, Dach, Hutson, Guhle, Reinbacher, Mailloux, and Fowler all have the potential to be core players.

This is going to be fun to keep track of. I know it's promising to look at it this way but it doesn't always translate to team success. However, I say the Habs chances are better than what it has been for Ottawa as they aren't stuck with a DJ Dorion combo

Suzuki (25) vs Stützle (22)
Slafkovsky (20) vs Tkachuk (24)
Demidov (18) vs Batherson (26)
Caufield (23) vs Pinto/Greig (23/22)
Dach (23) vs Norris (25)
Reinbacher (19) vs Sanderson (22)
Hutson (20) vs Chabot (27)
Guhle (22) vs Yakemchuk (18)
Mailloux (21) vs Kleven (22)
Fowler (19) vs Ullmark/Sogaard (31/23)

 

[PensandCaps]

Thats a pretty good core, I don't get the jokes people are making. Do people realize how good Slaf was in the 2nd half?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Thats a pretty good core, I don't get the jokes people are making. Do people realize how good Slaf was in the 2nd half?

Ya Slaf was pretty good second half, I remember getting the laugh emoji from habs fans, when I said I’d take Slaf first overall over Wright.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

3 wingers as a core is weak. Caufield really doesn't do it for me. He's tiny and think come playoff time he will really struggle in a prominent role. No elite C. Slaf will have to go full Hossa for it to be anything above average.

Habs have 2 great centres in Suzuki and Dach. They will have depth in Hage, Beck and possibly Dermidov. Slaf will likely be as good as Hossa if he can stay healthy.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Habs have 2 great centres in Suzuki and Dach. They will have depth in Hage, Beck and possibly Dermidov. Slaf will likely be as good as Hossa if he can stay healthy.

Don’t see Slaf getting to Hossa level if healthy.

 

[wetcoast]

Personally, I think it's smarter to look at the last 2 seasons combined in terms of PPG, also in terms of EVP (RNH, Guentzel, Stamkos, Reinhart, Verhaeghe and Pavelski barely played center last season so I removed them from the NHL.com ranking)

PPG :

1- McDavid
2- MacKinnon
5- Hughes
10- Barkov
11- Stützle
14- Thompson
15- Zibanejad
16- Larkin
20- Hintz
25- Nelson
26- Suzuki

EVP :

1- MacKinnon
2- McDavid
5- Draisaitl
9- Stützle
10- Nelson
15- Trocheck
18- Thompson
20- Barkov
25- Suzuki
30- Larkin

I think Suzuki is a #1C, albeit on the lower end. If he pulls another season like last year then he could rise through the ranks a bit. I also tracked Stützle, Larkin and Thompson since a certain poster said that "Suzuki lines up approximately evenly" with them



In the last 2 years, there has been a season of 60+ pts by a forward only 167 times

32 teams, 2 seasons, do the calculations. Not a lot of teams will have 60-65 pts players on their 2nd line.

OP said "best four player assets"

For Montreal it doesn't change much unless one of Hutson or Reinbacher leapfrogs Caufield (assuming Slaf and Demidov become as good as projected)

I would actually consider Reinbacher ahead of CC as part of the core but even then it's hard to place them higher than 20-25 with probably only 1 center and then 3 guys who have potential but until it's there.......like I said I'm not even sure if it's better than any other 4 team core in their own division.

 

[KevSkillz4]

Nick Suzuki know his hockey:

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Habs have 2 great centres in Suzuki and Dach. They will have depth in Hage, Beck and possibly Dermidov. Slaf will likely be as good as Hossa if he can stay healthy.

That's a liberal use of the word "great".

 

[stevo61]

tough thing to gauge. There have been a number of teams that have been bad in the same time frame as Montreal so there are a lot of teams with impressive on paper prospect groups. There are also as we know a large number of significantly better actual NHL level cores around the league at the moment.

Its probably lower than people (montreal fans) expect. Just like for me as a Columbus fan. Fantilli/Lindstrom/Jiricek could fill 3 of the most important positions at a high level or they may simply not develop as hoped, its not unrealistic in either direction

 

[22FUTON9]

That core just screams mid to me in terms of top end talent. Not saying they can’t win the cup, but if they do it won’t be like the pens/hawks/avs/bolts where their top end talents outshines everyone else. It’ll probably be similar to how the blues won, just solid players all around but no real superstars.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Top 30. Not a fan of small soft players as your core players.

 

[Lshap]

Honestly, I find the OP's title misleading. Calling these four forwards Montreal's core means... what exactly? "Core" suggests the main strength of the team, except Montreal's strength projects to be a very strong group of defensemen and goalie tandem.

And if we're only comparing potential top forwards, what about Dach? Obviously he has to stay healthy, but we're projecting, right? Anyone who watched him saw a top C who I personally think can be better than Suzuki (who was the 15th best C in points).