Where Do You Stand on Tyler Boucher?

[OD99]

I really feel like Boucher is a guy you appreciate if you actually watch the player, so arguing with the the stat watchers can be frustrating, even though I know I am guilty of this as well.

Watching the guy, I can see why he was reached on at 10, even if it was a reach.

I don't think it is even arguing.. the stat watchers appreciate his game but want to see some production to go along with it.

 

[Knave]

I wish there was an "I don't know" option. For the past several years I've been been watching fewer games, going to fewer games and the first thing to fall off was following potential draft picks and prospects. I don't know anything about Boucher or anyone else in the farm system for that matter.

We'll see. Hopefully a change in ownership that invests in scouting and development will make me re-think things but right now our drafting and development feels like a crapshoot. I am not confident in Boucher at all but I think writing off someone drafted this summer is a bit much.

 

[H2O]

I wish there was an "I don't know" option. For the past several years I've been been watching fewer games, going to fewer games and the first thing to fall off was following potential draft picks and prospects. I don't know anything about Boucher or anyone else in the farm system for that matter.

We'll see. Hopefully a change in ownership that invests in scouting and development will make me re-think things but right now our drafting and development feels like a crapshoot. I am not confident in Boucher at all but I think writing off someone drafted this summer is a bit much.

There’s a lot not to like about the organization but I’m not sure how you can say scouting and development is one of them. Every team have their misses in drafting but I’d put Ottawa against the best of them in the league. Our best forward right now was drafted in the fourth round after all.

 

[Knave]

There’s a lot not to like about the organization but I’m not sure how you can say scouting and development is one of them. Every team have their misses in drafting but I’d put Ottawa against the best of them in the league. Our best forward right now was drafted in the fourth round after all.

From the 2017 draft. This was the season where Pierre Dorion took over as GM. We made the playoffs. This was where Erik Karlsson carried the team to game 7 against the Penguins in overtime. The Penguins won the cup that year. Given the departure of our amateur scouts over the years I'm not convinced this will continue.

 

[H2O]

From the 2017 draft. This was the season where Pierre Dorion took over as GM. Given the departure of our amateur scouts over the years I'm not convinced this will continue.

You don’t think we’ve drafted well since 2017?

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I think he was a huge reach at 10th overall.

I don't know what he'll turn out to be, although if he does become an NHLer, it'll be in the bottom 6.

All I know, is that we're better off forgetting the kid exists for a good 2-3 seasons. Let him develop in peace, then see where he is as a 21-22 year old.

 

[Neiler]

The Tyler Biuchers are more rare then the Nile Hoffman’s and that’s why he was drafted so high

These names make me feel like I'm drafting 5 years into be a gm mode.

On Boucher, I am willing to wait but so far it hasn't looked good. If he turns out to be a Chris Neil type I'll be happy but that would really emphasize the pick was way too early.

 

[ACLEVERNAME]

Either way I'll give a pass on the team for this pick. Covid killed any hope at true scouting the past few years. The way I see it they took a sweep at a boy in a man's body betting on a coin flip outcome.

Michael (Sens killer) McCarron comes to mind

 

[Ice-Tray]

These names make me feel like I'm drafting 5 years into be a gm mode.

On Boucher, I am willing to wait but so far it hasn't looked good. If he turns out to be a Chris Neil type I'll be happy but that would really emphasize the pick was way too early.

If he turns into Chris Neil that would be an awesome 10OA pick. Plays the way he did for 1000 games in the NHL??

 

[Answer]

Colin White all over again

From 1st liner to press box material (with a bad contract attached)

 

[Neiler]

If he turns into Chris Neil that would be an awesome 10OA pick. Plays the way he did for 1000 games in the NHL??

I dunno... I feel like you should be shooting for the Tkachuk types in the top 10 of a draft, not the Neil types. Like I said, I would still be happy if that's what he turned into (I still think Neil's number should have been hung up).

 

[Ice-Tray]

I dunno... I feel like you should be shooting for the Tkachuk types in the top 10 of a draft, not the Neil types. Like I said, I would still be happy if that's what he turned into (I still think Neil's number should have been hung up).

I hear you I think they were definitely shooting for BT type and not CN as well. I more meant that if he ends up being like CN that’s still pretty damn good!

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Colin White all over again

From 1st liner to press box material (with a bad contract attached)

Little early to say he has a bad contract, no?

 

[Micklebot]

If he turns into Chris Neil that would be an awesome 10OA pick. Plays the way he did for 1000 games in the NHL??

It's an interesting question, Neil was certainly a fan favourite and about as impactful a player as you ask for out of a 3rd/4th liner. I don't however think at any point in his career, a team would have offered up 10th OA for him on draft day.

10th OA is a funny part of the draft. You can land a guy like Rantanen, or you can end up with a guy like Koekkoek. There are more guys like Hodgson Ritchie, and Nichushkin than there are guys like Rantanen taken at 10th, and it's not really close, so yeah, Neil would probably be a great outcome in that narrow view. Strangely 10th OA seems to have done worse historically than 11-15.

Did we target another Tkachuk out of Boucher, I think that would be unlikely, I suspect their projection was significantly more conservative. But one would hope they also were aiming higher than Neil, no disrespect to Neiler, at that range in the draft there are typically a few star players available,

 

[Oscar The Grouch]

I'd probably stand on his lower back. Anywhere else would be very uncomfortable for him, and I don't think he needs that in his life right now.

 

[Micklebot]

I'd probably stand on his lower back. Anywhere else would be very uncomfortable for him, and I don't think he needs that in his life right now.

My first thought when I saw the thread was neck, but it all depends on the intent.

 

[Icelevel]

Who cares. It’s too early.
He could bust like every drafted player but should end up a solid middle six player for us.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

The pick has already been made. If he plays for the sens he’s going to start scrums and run over people and I’m going to cheer when he does that.

 

[ATdaisuki]

I've never seen him play so I have no opinion on him.

No wait, I mean despite never seeing him play, I hate him, he sucks and I'd be surprised to see him become anything more than a fourth liner that eats a fan's puppy before each game because he's an awful person. Or is it that he's a machine that's going to become a thirty goal man that hits people literally into the 200's while banging the opponent's mom and high fiving PierreX2? I can't remember where I'm supposed to stand, HFSens! Help!

 

[slamigo]

I think he'll be fine. Not sure why so many are freaking out.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Not buying a Chris Neil comparison yet. Neil was a real natural scrapper. He was a light heavy weight in terms of NHL fighters and he took on all comers and kept the opponents honest protecting teammates. 176 fights in 15 seasons. It was a big and valuable part of what he brought and what he needed to do to play in the NHL.
As a 17 y/o he had 150 pims in the OHL
At 18 55 pts and 231 pims in 59 games Draft year
At 19 72 pts and 215 pims in 66 games
In two years in Grand Rapids IHL he had 301 and 354 Pims

Fighting is down across the board. Boucher will definitely have to answer the bell as he moves from the CHL to the AHL/NHL. We'll see if he can be that guy.

 

[MatchesMalone]

I hear you I think they were definitely shooting for BT type and not CN as well. I more meant that if he ends up being like CN that’s still pretty damn good!

It's an interesting question, Neil was certainly a fan favourite and about as impactful a player as you ask for out of a 3rd/4th liner. I don't however think at any point in his career, a team would have offered up 10th OA for him on draft day.

10th OA is a funny part of the draft. You can land a guy like Rantanen, or you can end up with a guy like Koekkoek. There are more guys like Hodgson Ritchie, and Nichushkin than there are guys like Rantanen taken at 10th, and it's not really close, so yeah, Neil would probably be a great outcome in that narrow view. Strangely 10th OA seems to have done worse historically than 11-15.

Did we target another Tkachuk out of Boucher, I think that would be unlikely, I suspect their projection was significantly more conservative. But one would hope they also were aiming higher than Neil, no disrespect to Neiler, at that range in the draft there are typically a few star players available,

I remember many years ago going through and trying to assess Bryan Murray's drafting record, and I could never quite decide what to do with Martin Lapointe. A better comparison here than Neil. As SOA said, Neil was a legit fighter. And he was drafted in the 6th round. But Lapointe went 10th overall, just shy of 1000 games, close to 400 points, and 1400 PIMs. Interestingly enough, he was better than 6 of the 9 players drafted ahead of him, but then in the 8 picks after him came Brian Rolston, Alex Kovalev, Markus Naslund and Glen Murray. Pretty good comparison between Rolston and Sillinger too, taken with the very next picks.

 

[Micklebot]

I remember many years ago going through and trying to assess Bryan Murray's drafting record, and I could never quite decide what to do with Martin Lapointe. A better comparison here than Neil. As SOA said, Neil was a legit fighter. And he was drafted in the 6th round. But Lapointe went 10th overall, just shy of 1000 games, close to 400 points, and 1400 PIMs. Interestingly enough, he was better than 6 of the 9 players drafted ahead of him, but then in the 8 picks after him came Brian Rolston, Alex Kovalev, Markus Naslund and Glen Murray. Pretty good comparison between Rolston and Sillinger too, taken with the very next picks.

I think 10th is the spot where you are hesitant to swing for the fence, so you get some guys seen as safer picks taken there over guys with more perceived risk of busting. Had we drafted 10th in 2008, would we have still swung for the fence with Karlsson rather than say Myers or Beach who at the time seemed much safer bets to be very good players? Maybe, the scouts were really high on Karlsson afterall, but I do think it gets tougher to take a guy with those question marks in his game the high in the draft you get.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I definite don’t think he’ll be CN. I was more using a comparison in terms of value. Having said that, he certainly looks like he enjoys the hitting aspect like Chris did.

 

[NorthCoast]

Reach for a guy who should have gone late 1st based on "fit" that was stupid at the time and looks even worse right now.

Reminds me of the Leafs trading up to take Biggs in the 1st round under Burke. Was he truly the objective BPA in the mind of the scouts? Or was he the BPA of the draft eligibles that played the style of game that Leafs management wanted their team to play? I suspect the later. Drafting for fit is no better than drafting for need.

I'm pretty confident that Boucher will one day end up an NHLer. He's got the tools to play and will make an impact with his physical play, but it's difficult to project him to be any kind of significant offensive contributor when he's not even capable of a PPG in junior, where he should be dominating kids with his man strength.

Really think the Sens scouting staff got overconfident after a great 2020 draft in their ability to find off-the-board gems. They also took their emphasis on tools (size and speed mainly) over skill and IQ to the next level. I really hope the disastrous draft+1 seasons from Boucher, Ostapchuk and Roger humble them and ensure they don't continue to believe they are the smartest scouts in the room.

Pretty much agree with this assessment. Physical specimen that can handle defensive responsibility, be a net front presence, and has some finish. But can't create his own chances or chances for others beyond ability to forecheck. This is 3rd-4th line skillset unless hockey IQ takes a big leap, which I agree should be a later 1st gamble not a top 10, because it's very hard to forecast out development of someones playmaking skills.

Hopefully turns out to be a very good cost controlled 3rd liner during our window, which would be okay return but you could likely have your pick of the NHLs cost controlled 3rd liners with a 10th pick trade, so...