Where Do You Stand on Tyler Boucher?

[PlayersLtd]

Would be massive, but Neil had 1200+ PIMs in the 5 seasons prior to getting to the NHL, and 170+ Per 82 in every season he was in the league outside of his final season.

Boucher will never play that kind of game.

Sadly, no one else in the future of hockey will play that kind of game.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

That is all possible but comparing this to MMA now?

How much time away from trying to play hockey better does he dedicate to fighting? MMA players focus only on fighting, not on skating, shooting, IQ, etc...

Seems to be a lot of, "in the very best case scenario, IF he does X, Y, Z then he will be good" type of suggestions.

Also, you need to like to fight and be willing to fight.

"It isn't the size of the dog in the fight but the amount of fight in the dog" is a true statement. Did Boucher ever dream to be a tough guy who fights? If not, he probably focuses on trying to score more and be a better hockey player overall for quite a while before throwing in the towel to be a fighter.

I brought it up in the context that fighting is a skill that can be taught and developed. Hockey fighting is challenging in its own way but it is far less complex than boxing and mma and far easier to get competent at.

A hockey fight typically last 30 seconds to 1 minute at most, so there is no need to be concerned about pacing oneself and conserving energy. It is solely inside fighting, inside the pocket so there are no real concerns with learning footwork. There is barely a need to use feints or to bait an opponent to set up a counterattack as the fight is too short. Most fighters simply throw haymakers and leave themselves wide open defensively so there is very little concern with trying to create openings.

A fighter with basic boxing fundamentals is well equipped to win most fights. They need to be able to bob and weave, be able to cover their head and body, be able to throw a jab, cross, left hook, right hook, left shovel hook, right shovel hook, left upper cut, right uppercut and an overhand, they need to know how to assess their range and their opponents range, how to generate power in their punches while keeping a themselves on balance and maybe a bit of understanding of how to parry punches.

Sure it can take a while to really master the fundamentals, but most hockey fighters don't need to master the fundamentals, they just need to become moderately competent at it.

I think it would benefit any physical prospect to have some basic boxing training so they are comfortable with the possibility of fighting. If they are powerful and athletic then the boxing fundamentals could give them the foundation to become a pretty good fighter and at the very least it will help make sure that they are unlikely to get serious hurt from a fight.

With Boucher, I don't think it is a guarantee or anything but I do believe that if he does decide to develop his fighting skill through the proper methods then I won't be surprised if he is mauling people in his prime.

 

[Frank8]

Reach for a guy who should have gone late 1st based on "fit" that was stupid at the time and looks even worse right now.

Reminds me of the Leafs trading up to take Biggs in the 1st round under Burke. Was he truly the objective BPA in the mind of the scouts? Or was he the BPA of the draft eligibles that played the style of game that Leafs management wanted their team to play? I suspect the later. Drafting for fit is no better than drafting for need.

I'm pretty confident that Boucher will one day end up an NHLer. He's got the tools to play and will make an impact with his physical play, but it's difficult to project him to be any kind of significant offensive contributor when he's not even capable of a PPG in junior, where he should be dominating kids with his man strength.

Really think the Sens scouting staff got overconfident after a great 2020 draft in their ability to find off-the-board gems. They also took their emphasis on tools (size and speed mainly) over skill and IQ to the next level. I really hope the disastrous draft+1 seasons from Boucher, Ostapchuk and Roger humble them and ensure they don't continue to believe they are the smartest scouts in the room.

Ostapchuk gave us something to be excited about with the way he finished the season and how he went nuts in the playoffs. There's definitely something there.

 

[topshelf15]

A long term project,that will help but later down the road

 

[Alf Silfversson]

I brought it up in the context that fighting is a skill that can be taught and developed. Hockey fighting is challenging in its own way but it is far less complex than boxing and mma and far easier to get competent at.

A hockey fight typically last 30 seconds to 1 minute at most, so there is no need to be concerned about pacing oneself and conserving energy. It is solely inside fighting, inside the pocket so there are no real concerns with learning footwork. There is barely a need to use feints or to bait an opponent to set up a counterattack as the fight is too short. Most fighters simply throw haymakers and leave themselves wide open defensively so there is very little concern with trying to create openings.

A fighter with basic boxing fundamentals is well equipped to win most fights. They need to be able to bob and weave, be able to cover their head and body, be able to throw a jab, cross, left hook, right hook, left shovel hook, right shovel hook, left upper cut, right uppercut and an overhand, they need to know how to assess their range and their opponents range, how to generate power in their punches while keeping a themselves on balance and maybe a bit of understanding of how to parry punches.

Sure it can take a while to really master the fundamentals, but most hockey fighters don't need to master the fundamentals, they just need to become moderately competent at it.

I think it would benefit any physical prospect to have some basic boxing training so they are comfortable with the possibility of fighting. If they are powerful and athletic then the boxing fundamentals could give them the foundation to become a pretty good fighter and at the very least it will help make sure that they are unlikely to get serious hurt from a fight.

With Boucher, I don't think it is a guarantee or anything but I do believe that if he does decide to develop his fighting skill through the proper methods then I won't be surprised if he is mauling people in his prime.

But Boucher hasn't learned any of that yet. He hasn't really shown that he wants to go that route either (I don't blame him one bit).

You could say all this about any good athlete who has good fast twitch muscle tendencies. Shane Pinto COULD become a good fighter. He's an excellent athlete with a big frame (bigger than Boucher) who could be taught fighting methods. He's clearly a fast learner. If Pinto starts to struggle are we going to start comparing him to Chris Neil because he throws hits?

It's all conjecture. Maybe Boucher transitions to being a fighter; lots of players have gone from being 1st/2nd round picks to light heavyweights. But none have really become Chris Neil-esque.

I think Boucher would be way better suited to working on his two way game so he can become a valuable 3rd/4th liner who is defensively responsible and hits hard on the forecheck. Those types of players can be very useful. Kind of like how Paquette was for the Lightning for a number of years.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Reminiscing about Neiler is the high point of this thread right now, and it’s pretty sweet.

 

[mianjo]

Boucher invited to USA Hockey National Junior Evaluation Camp

Seven CHL players invited to USA Hockey National Junior Evaluation Camp | Canadian Hockey League

Seven players from the Canadian Hockey League have been invited to USA Hockey’s National Junior Evaluation Camp that will be held July 24-August 3 at USA Hockey Arena in Plymouth, Mich. The OHL accounts for six of the seven players in goaltender Owen Flores (LDN), d-man Roman Schmidt (KIT) and...

chl.ca

 

[Sweatred]

Boucher invited to USA Hockey National Junior Evaluation Camp

Seven CHL players invited to USA Hockey National Junior Evaluation Camp | Canadian Hockey League

Seven players from the Canadian Hockey League have been invited to USA Hockey’s National Junior Evaluation Camp that will be held July 24-August 3 at USA Hockey Arena in Plymouth, Mich. The OHL accounts for six of the seven players in goaltender Owen Flores (LDN), d-man Roman Schmidt (KIT) and...

chl.ca

Wonderful news -

 

[aragorn]

The NHL has changed & continues to change, while Boucher will deliver some big hits he's not gonna be the team policeman or goon. He's only gonna fight when he is forced to after some big hit IMO. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if he ends up in the top six probably on Stutzle's line to add some muscle to that line depending on who ends up on it. Nice to see Boucher is spending the summer in Ottawa working with the skating coaches & is sharing a house with Sanderson & Greig. Greig is another guy who might have to drop the gloves given how he plays, those two would be interesting on the same line. Good for Boucher to get the invite to the USA HNJEC Team, at least they still think highly of him.

 

[BondraTime]

Wonderful news -

It is, but it's also to be expected. He was there last year, and this year they invited 60 players

 

[Micklebot]

It is, but it's also to be expected. He was there last year, and this year they invited 60 players

Not going to complain about him getting invited that's for sure. Hope he can make a good impression, would be nice if he makes the team.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

But Boucher hasn't learned any of that yet. He hasn't really shown that he wants to go that route either (I don't blame him one bit).

You could say all this about any good athlete who has good fast twitch muscle tendencies. Shane Pinto COULD become a good fighter. He's an excellent athlete with a big frame (bigger than Boucher) who could be taught fighting methods. He's clearly a fast learner. If Pinto starts to struggle are we going to start comparing him to Chris Neil because he throws hits?

It's all conjecture. Maybe Boucher transitions to being a fighter; lots of players have gone from being 1st/2nd round picks to light heavyweights. But none have really become Chris Neil-esque.

I think Boucher would be way better suited to working on his two way game so he can become a valuable 3rd/4th liner who is defensively responsible and hits hard on the forecheck. Those types of players can be very useful. Kind of like how Paquette was for the Lightning for a number of years.

Fair point. A lot of players have the raw potential to become good fighters but there are no assurances that they will do the work to become one. There are also plenty examples of physical players and prospects that never became all that skilled at fighting so it is a good idea to be cautious about expecting one to become a good fighter.

In my opinion Boucher looked decent in the 2 fights he had in the OHL this season. I am assuming because he is so physically imposing that he will have an interest in becoming a highly competent fighter. I am making a logical connection that a player that like to physically dominate and intimidate through hits will be motivated to be completely physically dominant and intimidating by developing into a scary fighter. But there is no guarantee that will be the case as there are examples of big hitters who never developed into scary fighters. I was just assuming that someone who likes to hit hard would probably like to fight as well.

I guess we will see what happens. If he is going to become a good fighter then we will likely see some indications of it pretty soon, either next year or as soon as he turns pro.

 

[cudi]

be funny if he came out of the gates on fire and was like 'last year was just a prank'.

 

[BondraTime]

Not going to complain about him getting invited that's for sure. Hope he can make a good impression, would be nice if he makes the team.

He’ll be on the December team for sure, that’s what most of these guys are invited for.

 

[Ouroboros]

He played really well at the Summer Showcase last year. He left that tournament pretty much a lock to be on the WJC team and then played himself completely out of contention in the fall.

Hopefully he can turn things around a little bit.

 

[Tuna99]

He played really well at the Summer Showcase last year. He left that tournament pretty much a lock to be on the WJC team and then played himself completely out of contention in the fall.

Hopefully he can turn things around a little bit.

Most Sens fans hated Brady’s WJC despite the fact he was a blue paint fiend and was the USA best player - Boucher could be the next WJC Jonathan Toewes and fans would still find a reason to dislike the pick

 

[Micklebot]

We have another active thread on Boucher, going to lock this one up and we can carry on over there.

Prospect Info: - Tyler Boucher (F) - PART III

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