Where did Yzerman go wrong with the rebuild?

[Oddbob]

other posters have brought up the timeline of other rebuilds in order to refute the claim that yzerman has failed, when in reality he's pretty much right on track

Worst part of that thread is that the main contributors are Hawks and Sens fans and one Blues fan who have 1 Cup in their whole history. Hawks lucked their way into Bedard, and still appear to be in for a very long rebuild, Sens still aren't doing much and no guarantee they are even better than us and the Blues have mostly been an also ran for most of the recent past.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

other posters have brought up the timeline of other rebuilds in order to refute the claim that yzerman has failed, when in reality he's pretty much right on track

Other posters have simply stated that if we're gonna breakdown Detroits rebuild to be between KH and SY then we should do the same between Dorion and Staois in Ottawa, and Murray and Botterill and Adam's in Buffalo , etc..

Why...because if SY was too quit tomorrow, Detroits rebuild dosent start over as being day one..

 

[SirloinUB]

Red Wings fire Derek Lalonde and Hire Gerard Gallant as HC.

Red Wings trade F Vladimir Tarasenko, F Michael Rasmussen, F Marco Kasper, G Trey Augustine and their 1st round pick.
Sabers trade F Dylan Cozens and their 2nd round pick.

Red Wings trade F Jonatan Berggren, LHD William Wallinder, and the Red Wings 3rd round pick this year and in 2026.
Sharks trade LHD Mario Ferraro.



Lost:
- Derek Lalonde ( Head Coach )
- F Vladimir Tarasenko
- F Michael Rasmussen
- F Marco Kasper
- F Jonatan Berggren
- G Trey Augustine ( Prospect )
- LHD William Wallinder ( Prospect )
- 1st rdp 2025
- 3rd rdp 2025
- 3rd rdp 2026.

Gained:
- Gerard Gallant
- F Dylan Cozens
- Buf 2nd rdp 2025
- LHD Mario Ferraro

Reevaluate at TDL to see if you're sellers or minor buyers. Hire a real coach or extend Gallant depending on how it goes. Move contracts in the summer to get younger/better depth. Figure out if Danielson/Lombardi can handle some play at center. Give guys like ASP/Buch/Mazur/Toumisto/Cossa shots at making the roster next year. Every FA can be let go in offseason except maybe.... Christian Fischer at minimum...
( Kane/Motte/Watson/Petry/Johansson/Lyon ) all gone. Sign maybe ONE top six forward who can score 20-30 goals consistently. Not four guys with a collection of 20 goal seasons in their careers.

Those are some serious overpays. Sorry, thts an easy pass for me

 

[SirloinUB]

Other posters have simply stated that if we're gonna breakdown Detroits rebuild to be between KH and SY then we should do the same between Dorion and Staois in Ottawa, and Murray and Botterill and Adam's in Buffalo , etc..

Why...because if SY was too quit tomorrow, Detroits rebuild dosent start over as being day one..

It seems crazy that anyone wouldn’t differentiate rebuilds by GM. What’s the value in thinking of Murray + Botterill + Adam’s work or Dorion + Staois work as one singular blob?

If yzerman was fired is a new GM not starting off in a vastly different place than where Yzerman started?

A new GM is a fresh start with new priorities, motivations and most importantly starting off with different building blocks (for better or worse).

I think the only context where the previous GMs work is relevant is establishing the new GMs starting point. Their success or failure should be measured based on what they accomplished relative to where they started.

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

Other posters have simply stated that if we're gonna breakdown Detroits rebuild to be between KH and SY then we should do the same between Dorion and Staois in Ottawa, and Murray and Botterill and Adam's in Buffalo , etc..

Why...because if SY was too quit tomorrow, Detroits rebuild dosent start over as being day one..

look man, i'm not the thread police, but this one was created specifically to talk about the job yzerman is doing. if someone wanted to create one to discuss the state of detroits rebuild overall that's a valid topic of conversation and anyone who wants to is free to do so

 

[Snuggs]

It seems crazy that anyone wouldn’t differentiate rebuilds by GM. What’s the value in thinking of Murray + Botterill + Adam’s work or Dorion + Staois work as one singular blob?

If yzerman was fired is a new GM not starting off in a vastly different place than where Yzerman started?

A new GM is a fresh start with new prioties, motivations and most importantly starting off with different building blocks (for better or worse). Their success or failure should be measured based on what they accomplished relative to where they started.

I think this was the original point to the posting of other teams' timelines. The whole thing was pretty disingenuous comparison outside of years on the timeline. The original poster clumped other teams GM's together and didn't take into account intentional multi-year tank jobs. Something the Red Wings haven't done and had the chance to do with Bedard.

 

[gritdash60]

First thing he went wrong with the rebuild is not firing Laloss 3 weeks ago, 2nd thing he went wrong with is not firing Laloss 2 weeks ago, third thing he went wrong is not firing Laloss a week ago. And now he again goes wrong not giving Laloss the boot as a christmas present.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

look man, i'm not the thread police, but this one was created specifically to talk about the job yzerman is doing. if someone wanted to create one to discuss the state of detroits rebuild overall that's a valid topic of conversation and anyone who wants to is free to do so

Ugh

I am not the poster (not saying you're) that goes to the well stating Detroits rebuild is only measured from SY being hired whereas Buffalo's or Ottawas go back to include previous GMs work(to increase timelines)..

I'm simply advocating one standard...one metric for comparison.

That's it

The very basis of all discussion..creating one rule for everyone

 

[Winger98]

I think this was the original point to the posting of other teams' timelines. The whole thing was pretty disingenuous comparison outside of years on the timeline. The original poster clumped other teams GM's together and didn't take into account intentional multi-year tank jobs. Something the Red Wings haven't done and had the chance to do with Bedard.

nope. It was just to show how long rebuilds actually take. People want to try going into the weeds to support different arguments on it, but that's all it was meant to do. And regardless what timeline people want to put on Detroit's rebuild, the length of it so far isn't special.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

nope. It was just to show how long rebuilds actually take. People want to try going into the weeds to support different arguments on it, but that's all it was meant to do. And regardless what timeline people want to put on Detroit's rebuild, the length of it so far isn't special.

So is Detroit in year 7 or year 9?

 

[Fynn]

For one, no one expected a Stanley Cup at this point. But improvement and a vision would be nice. He hasn't hit on any draft picks below the first round. No way you'll be successful without that. He hasn't found a competent goalie. Not a superstar, but someone consistent. It's a must for a team that's rebuilding. His "place holder" signings have mostly failed. The few that were decent, he paid other teams to take or let them walk over small contract issues. He's had 2 subpar coaches in Lalonde and Blashill. He's built a management team of his former teammates that haven't shown they know what they're doing. Scouting and development are clearly an issue. He's basically Ken Holland 2.0, except that SY hasn't won anything as a GM. I'm waiting for, It's a Men's League, the prospects need to overripen, We like our team. Maybe Denise can wrestle ownership away from Chris like Sheila Hemp and show the men how it's done.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

 

[SirloinUB]

For one, no one expected a Stanley Cup at this point. But improvement and a vision would be nice. He hasn't hit on any draft picks below the first round. No way you'll be successful without that. He hasn't found a competent goalie. Not a superstar, but someone consistent. It's a must for a team that's rebuilding. His "place holder" signings have mostly failed. The few that were decent, he paid other teams to take or let them walk over small contract issues. He's had 2 subpar coaches in Lalonde and Blashill. He's built a management team of his former teammates that haven't shown they know what they're doing. Scouting and development are clearly an issue. He's basically Ken Holland 2.0, except that SY hasn't won anything as a GM. I'm waiting for, It's a Men's League, the prospects need to overripen, We like our team. Maybe Denise can wrestle ownership away from Chris like Sheila Hemp and show the men how it's done.

Holy hyperbole.

He literally has a second rounder he drafted on the roster and multiple other non 1st rounders trending well.

His firsts have all been great.. not sure why that’s being hand waived away.

He inherited blashill and the team was trash so canning him wouldn’t have changed anything.

Scouting and development have been good. Horcoff and Draper have been good in their roles. Lidstrom and kronwalm have positively contributed to the development of guys like seider, Edvinsson and ASP.

Just an absurd post with little grounding it in reality.

 

[Air Budd Dwyer]

Holy hyperbole.

He literally has a second rounder he drafted on the roster and multiple other non 1st rounders trending well.

His firsts have all been great.. not sure why that’s being hand waived away.

He inherited blashill and the team was trash so canning him wouldn’t have changed anything.

Scouting and development have been good. Horcoff and Draper have been good in their roles. Lidstrom and kronwalm have positively contributed to the development of guys like seider, Edvinsson and ASP.

Just an absurd post with little grounding it in reality.

And what do people really expect out of 2nd round picks anyway? Very rarely do you hit on a Jason Robertson in the 2nd round. It's next to impossible to snag an impact player at that point.

Most 2nd rounders, if they even make the NHL (~60% play less than 100 games in the NHL), aren't more than role players on 3rd and 4th lines.

EDIT: I went back and fact checked myself like an Aspergery kook. From the 2005 to 2020 NHL drafts there were 483 players selected in the 2nd round. 294 of those draft picks played less than 100 NHL games. (Granted, that number will decrease a little due to a few late bloomers eclipsing that mark this season). But that's right at 61% for now.

 

[SirloinUB]

Ugh

I am not the poster (not saying you're) that goes to the well stating Detroits rebuild is only measured from SY being hired whereas Buffalo's or Ottawas go back to include previous GMs work(to increase timelines)..

I'm simply advocating one standard...one metric for comparison.

That's it

The very basis of all discussion..creating one rule for everyone

I get what you’re trying to do but it feels like it blurs/obstructs the conversation.

In black and white terms, sure the rebuild started 9 years ago. In terms of evaluating yzerman, it started 6-7 years ago. These two things are equally true. Similarity:

Holland started the rebuild 9 years ago.

The first 2-3 years of rebuilding (and even the retool on the fly before that) contributed little/nothing to progress the rebuild (ultimately leaving a bigger mess than before the rebuild actually started imo).

To suggest we can’t delineate rebuilds or phases within those 9 years glosses over details that are crucial to properly evaluate yzerman.

This is why I feel like placing these kind of “rules” on discourse is unnecessary semantics. You need to be able to understand the context at different points of the journey.

I suppose this is true for Detroit and other teams and consistency which is all you’re advocating for. (but I don’t see wings fans trying to remove context from the Buffalo or Ottawa rebuilds)

I guess I find fretting about 7 or 9 years to be an over simplification of reality.

 

[Our Lady Peace]

I don't like the "nothing's currently going right so therefore nothing has been done right" way of assessing what Yzerman has done

It has been discussed far too long-windedly, but there are two big strengths of his tenure this far (consequently, those that require the most patience):

1) hitting on his 1st round picks and so far, hitting them out of the park for their draft slot

2) the first two picks have been signed to darling long term contracts. Yes, the cap is a massive consideration in today's NHL

You can debate his pro scouting, how he hasn't weaponized cap space, or his general low profile as a GM, etc. There's lot to question for sure

...but this rebuild is most definitely not yet a finished product and thus should not get any final stamps. The growing pains with this team at this moment in time really do suck, but are not forever

 

[Winger98]

So is Detroit in year 7 or year 9?

6 or 9, depending on how you want to determine it. It doesn't matter to me, and neither number sticks out as being overly good or bad in that list I had. The post was really a response to all of the posts I've seen asking how the rebuild could be taking so long. The answer is that rebuilds take a long time.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I get what you’re trying to do but it feels like it blurs/obstructs the conversation.

In black and white terms, sure the rebuild started 9 years ago. In terms of evaluating yzerman, it started 6-7 years ago. These two things are equally true. Similarity:

Holland started the rebuild 9 years ago.

The first 2-3 years of rebuilding (and even the retool on the fly before that) contributed little/nothing to progress the rebuild (ultimately leaving a bigger mess than before the rebuild actually started imo).

To suggest we can’t delineate rebuilds or phases within those 9 years glosses over details that are crucial to properly evaluate yzerman.

This is why I feel like placing these kind of “rules” on discourse is unnecessary semantics. You need to be able to understand the context at different points of the journey.

I suppose this is true for Detroit and other teams and consistency which is all you’re advocating for. (but I don’t see wings fans trying to remove context from the Buffalo or Ottawa rebuilds)

I guess I find fretting about 7 or 9 years to be an over simplification of reality.

So long as poster's are consistent all is good..

 

[Oddbob]

I do wish Steve would let the fans know more what the actual goal was this season. Fans are saying we should be playoffs, but the defence that Yzerman (he never gave clear answer where he thought team would be) put together this season tells me he didn't necessarily view playoffs as realistic. Either that or he is really bad at knowing what a bad blueline looks like. It all seemed to hinge on two rookies doing really well and the vets not sucking as much, which was a double high task to ask of the defenders on this team.

Forwards aren't great either, but the defence has a lot of ice time to cover and even if healthy that was and is a terrible blueline.

I get that Steve likely didn't expect Gus to be so bad, or that Kane and Tank would be so underwhelming, but even if they were playing better we still have a not great team.

 

[Air Budd Dwyer]

6 or 9, depending on how you want to determine it. It doesn't matter to me, and neither number sticks out as being overly good or bad in that list I had. The post was really a response to all of the posts I've seen asking how the rebuild could be taking so long. The answer is that rebuilds take a long time.

I specifically remember during Holland's "rebuild on the fly" that he didn't want to do a full rebuild because "they take 10 years".

But while doing so, after Lidstrom retired, he constantly missed on 1st round picks from 2013-2018 (with the exception of Larkin and arguably Mantha), which you can't afford to do if you want to maintain any semblance of a competitive roster. I won't even hate on him for taking Zadina in 2018 because that was seen as a steal at the time.

BUT! I will not forgive him for how bare he left the cupboard for Yzerman. I've said this before here but from the time Kronwall was drafted in 2000 until Yzerman drafted Seider in 2019, Holland completely failed at drafting defensemen. The best d-man Holland drafted in that timeframe was one of Hronek, Quincey, or Ericsson. Each of Yzerman's four first round pick skaters are currently on the team.

Yzerman has clearly been building through the draft while bringing in placeholders while the prospects develop. I don't believe any of Copp, Compher, Chairot, Kane, Gustafsson, etc. will be anywhere near this team by the time it's ready to compete.

So I just don't get the shortsighted crying from Yzerman critics. Do you like Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, and Kasper? You'll probably also like Lombardi, ASP, MBN, Cossa, Augustine, and whoever he drafts in the 1st round in 2025. We're just going to have to wait, which I know sports fans hate to hear.

I do wish Steve would let the fans know more what the actual goal was this season. Fans are saying we should be playoffs, but the defence that Yzerman (he never gave clear answer where he thought team would be) put together this season tells me he didn't necessarily view playoffs as realistic. Either that or he is really bad at knowing what a bad blueline looks like. It all seemed to hinge on two rookies doing really well and the vets not sucking as much, which was a double high task to ask of the defenders on this team.

Forwards aren't great either, but the defence has a lot of ice time to cover and even if healthy that was and is a terrible blueline.

I get that Steve likely didn't expect Gus to be so bad, or that Kane and Tank would be so underwhelming, but even if they were playing better we still have a not great team.

Yzerman even said before the season that making the playoffs wasn't necessarily the goal. He's building a young nucleus that will be competitive for years, hopefully.

 

[JoesuffP]

It’s like he treated all his signings like stop gap replacement level players but then overpaid them

I think it was pretty arrogant in hindsight that they could take a first year coach and make him into something. That’s a bad hire no way around it

His errors haven’t sunk us yet tho. The guys you want to excel are doing so but the team is dysfunctional we need to find out why that is as quick as we can. Yzerman cannot play the patience is everything route on solving this issue

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

Straight up people wouldn’t like it but a bottom 4 finish and trading Larkin to Dallas for johnson, bichsel + would reinvigorate our rebuild and match our timeline better. Then you use assets to sell off bad contracts or buy them out, and make a run at rantanen in free agency.

 

[DamonDRW]

Straight up people wouldn’t like it but a bottom 4 finish and trading Larkin to Dallas for johnson, bichsel + would reinvigorate our rebuild and match our timeline better. Then you use assets to sell off bad contracts or buy them out, and make a run at rantanen in free agency.

trading Larkin would indeed be a nice move at this point.

however, Rantanen is not something we need.

 

[SoupNazi]

The Tigers, in particular, with no salary cap in MLB, should be a lot more successful. It’s amazing that the two largest markets in the AL Central have been so bad for so long.

 

[nhlisawesome]

trading Larkin would indeed be a nice move at this point.

however, Rantanen is not something we need.

Teams lacks elite talent......elite talent hits free agency yet apparently it isn't something that we need. Help me understand?