Where did Yzerman go wrong with the rebuild?

[RED WINGS STOMP]

Nashville ain't selling off nothing right now. Trotz is throwing out false threats to try and pump up his squad to play better.

Now if they stay bad all season, then come trade deadline/offseason when teams have some cap, he might do something.

 

[saska sault]

I think any hopes of big trades is still going to be after this season.. unless somehow we are comfortably in a playoff spot come deadline, even then I could see Yzerman still holding of. He has stated before he wants to be careful of using picks and prospects before the team has arrived because it can potentially close your contention window before it even opens. I use it every time but Kessel to Toronto was a big spark to boost that team, and it didn't turn out. Let the team get there organically as possible and then start finding your pieces to fill in where you need.

 

[Winger98]

I think any hopes of big trades is still going to be after this season.. unless somehow we are comfortably in a playoff spot come deadline, even then I could see Yzerman still holding of. He has stated before he wants to be careful of using picks and prospects before the team has arrived because it can potentially close your contention window before it even opens. I use it every time but Kessel to Toronto was a big spark to boost that team, and it didn't turn out. Let the team get there organically as possible and then start finding your pieces to fill in where you need.

helped boost Boston, though.

 

[SantosHalper]

That's a lot of arguing for a trade that'll never happen, lol

Blame Trotz.

I use it every time but Kessel to Toronto was a big spark to boost that team, and it didn't turn out.

Kinda bad comparison imo. Leafs didn't have deep prospect pool or 1C. Wings are in much better position to make trades like that.

 

[saska sault]

Blame Trotz.

Kinda bad comparison imo. Leafs didn't have deep prospect pool or 1C. Wings are in much better position to make trades like that.

Picks = cheap ELCs we will need if and when we get good. Plus you need a pipeline of talent to have continued success and not have a short window. Trading picks before you are even ready to be good is a good way to mess up a rebuild like Toronto did was my comparison. It's just an example of how things turn out when you take a short cut. Now if there is a real superstar that is young, that changes everything. Not sure who around the league is available for a 1st and a couple of or prospects.

 

[RedWingzz]

not drafting enough goal scorers

not signing enough goal scorers

 

[SantosHalper]

Picks = cheap ELCs we will need if and when we get good. Plus you need a pipeline of talent to have continued success and not have a short window. Trading picks before you are even ready to be good is a good way to mess up a rebuild like Toronto did was my comparison. It's just an example of how things turn out when you take a short cut. Now if there is a real superstar that is young, that changes everything. Not sure who around the league is available for a 1st and a couple of or prospects.

Thats the beauty of having a deep prospect pool, which Leafs didn't have at the time. Wings are more likely to have surplus prospects. Where the Wings are now, the pipeline doesn't get screwd up if you trade couple 1st's for a player who improves the team immediately. You cannot only built through draft.

Wings are not basement team anymore, prospect pool is deep, top prospects are starting to spots in the team. This wouldn't be a short cut. If there is a PPG player available, who is signed through his prime years, there is no point to sit on those draft picks like mother hen.

 

[Snuggs]

Looks like Red Wings are heading towards being sellers at the TDL. Not sure their current style of play is sustainable for wins, and they look bad.

TDL players:
- G Alex Lyon
- F Kane
- F Beggren
- F Motte
- F Fischer
- F Veleno
- F Rasmussen
- Entire defense outside of top line.

Bolded guys are on expiring deals who might be easier to move for less. Kane/Lyon are the guys likely to net the most return.

 

[Snuggs]

Thats the beauty of having a deep prospect pool, which Leafs didn't have at the time. Wings are more likely to have surplus prospects. Where the Wings are now, the pipeline doesn't get screwd up if you trade couple 1st's for a player who improves the team immediately. You cannot only built through draft.

Wings are not basement team anymore, prospect pool is deep, top prospects are starting to spots in the team. This wouldn't be a short cut. If there is a PPG player available, who is signed through his prime years, there is no point to sit on those draft picks like mother hen.

Better stop being reasonable and let these guys have their endless rebuild.

 

[wingsfannn919191]

Thats the beauty of having a deep prospect pool, which Leafs didn't have at the time. Wings are more likely to have surplus prospects. Where the Wings are now, the pipeline doesn't get screwd up if you trade couple 1st's for a player who improves the team immediately. You cannot only built through draft.

Wings are not basement team anymore, prospect pool is deep, top prospects are starting to spots in the team. This wouldn't be a short cut. If there is a PPG player available, who is signed through his prime years, there is no point to sit on those draft picks like mother hen.

We dont have that big name star prospect amongst our pool. Imagine if we added someone like mcKenna to our pipeline? Then it would be an immediate blast off cause most our guys would be ready when he is

I wasn't thinking of him cause I didnt expect our team to be this horsesh*t but clearly somethings off atm. How many of our current guys will 100% be here in say 3 years???

Larkin Kasper raymond seider edvinsson??? I dont think yzerman gives debrincat 8+ x7. Could be wrong but dont see it. Point is alot of change is coming cause he needs to add the prospects he's drafted since we always delay bringing them up

If we're a bottom 10 team again we're adding mazur,pellikka and another kid or 2 and we dont make a trade for a big name player I can see yzerman giving us a shot at someone like McKenna than can completely turn things

I dont think that'll happen but if yzerman wants to save this season he needs to do something soon cause this team is in trouble

 

[Snuggs]

To me, I'm not sure the team(management) knows what it wants to do even. Many, many questionable moves since not making a move last TDL and it's been a snowball effect since then on about every choice they've made outside of goaltender.

Red Wings actually rotated in worst defensemen than what they already had. Significantly worst defensemen too and walked right back into the season with the same exact problems as they had on last year's roster. Only things gained truly was prospects in the 2024 draft.

It wasn't hard to know the RHD on the 2nd pair would be an issue because the guys we had can't handle the minutes/role... (Holl/Petry/Johansson)

It's not hard to see for many years right in a row that the 2nd center role isn't filled. Making a move for a guy isn't the worst thing when for years you can't answer the riddle yourself as an organization. Trying with guys like Copp/Compher was ok but acknowledging they aren't working and getting someone else is important too.

They want to answer these questions through the draft, which will take 2-4 years to figure out and if they fail... it'll result in another 5-10 rebuild after waiting already 8-10 years with Yzerman.

Moves have to be made imo, sell off to re-calibrate for this summer offseason or a big swing on a big name to add major talent behind or Infront of Larkin.

 

[SantosHalper]

We dont have that big name star prospect amongst our pool. Imagine if we added someone like mcKenna to our pipeline? Then it would be an immediate blast off cause most our guys would be ready when he is

I wasn't thinking of him cause I didnt expect our team to be this horsesh*t but clearly somethings off atm. How many of our current guys will 100% be here in say 3 years???

Larkin Kasper raymond seider edvinsson??? I dont think yzerman gives debrincat 8+ x7. Could be wrong but dont see it. Point is alot of change is coming cause he needs to add the prospects he's drafted since we always delay bringing them up

If we're a bottom 10 team again we're adding mazur,pellikka and another kid or 2 and we dont make a trade for a big name player I can see yzerman giving us a shot at someone like McKenna than can completely turn things

I dont think that'll happen but if yzerman wants to save this season he needs to do something soon cause this team is in trouble

Wings are trending up, not down. Dreaming of winning the draft lottery is waste of time.

 

[wingsfannn919191]

Moves have to be made imo, sell off to re-calibrate for this summer offseason or a big swing on a big name to add major talent behind or Infront of Larkin.

The problem is who are you going to make trades for ???? Teams arent trading top line guys and its getting rare now to see them make it to july 1st

The play would be to go for guys like lafraniere and byfield when they were struggling. Guys like zegras and cozens come to mind but I doubt sabres move him now with his value low and yzerman wouldnt go for zegras.

Taking a gamble on a Shane Wright? Again, value prob too low for seattle to move. Sadly best move is more patience. Have to prob wait 2 more years for nygard, danielson not looking like a top 6 guy anytime soon anyways

As much as I hate this sucking I want to go back to the glory days and get 15 yrs of cup chasing and getting someone like a McKenna who we dont have to wait too long to develop(sure theres other top end guys next few drafts) is the best bet

After 26 draft

McKenna larkin nygard
Buchelnikov Kasper raymond
Lombardi Danielson compher
Mazur rasmussen savage?
James

Edvinsson seider
(Ufa or trade) pellikka
Wallinder johansson
Buium

Cossa
Augustine(maybe vet goalie short term instead)

Prob not realistic and we might have debrincat in his last season fit in there somewhere but even without McKenna alot of guys are coming up and guys will be gone soon and of course guys will fail

Been against dealing berggren at low value atm but unless he explodes cant see him here by 26 season. Cant see anyone else sticking around

Still have our 2025 pick in the mix,finnie,Nilsson,becher,plante,kiiskinen in the pipeline

Maybe a lombardi/mazur/buchelnikov will be moved and more vets will be added no doubt but the point is almost everyone in our current roster will be gone so I'm not expecting much from the current nucleus for the foreseeable future

Wings are trending up, not down. Dreaming of winning the draft lottery is waste of time.

Trending up I'd say is dreaming. We'll be adding lots of kids soon and guys will be moved. There will be short term pain

Not saying we'll be worst team but wouldnt shock me to see us in the top 10 pick mix next few years and maybe we'll hit some luck for once in our lives

 

[RedWingzz]

Looks like Red Wings are heading towards being sellers at the TDL. Not sure their current style of play is sustainable for wins, and they look bad.

TDL players:
- G Alex Lyon
- F Kane
- F Beggren
- F Motte
- F Fischer
- F Veleno
- F Rasmussen
- Entire defense outside of top line.

Bolded guys are on expiring deals who might be easier to move for less. Kane/Lyon are the guys likely to net the most return.

these players don't have much value...

-Lyon: I'm sure we'd get like a 3rd for him, but may make sense to give him an extension. Cossa is cooking in GR, but may be wise to give him another season in the minors next year, and go with Talbot-Lyon. Then the following year we could go Lyon-Cossa. So I'd entertain extending Lyon for a few years.

-Kane: Flip to a contender at the deadline (assuming we are out). Maybe back to the Rangers or something for a 2nd and a 3rd or something? Not sure he returns a 1st...

-Berggren: He has been playing well, but the offence just isn't there. He's a borderline waiver player at this point, maybe get a late pick?

-Motte: no value, maybe a 7th

-Fischer: Resign him. Plays his role well and hustles even though he does nothing to contribute offensively.

-Veleno: late pick?

-Ras: isn't worth his contract. He should be chipping in more offensively. Keep him I guess..he is what he is at this point; a big man that doesn't really play a hard style of game at all, but also fits in at the NHL level.

-Holl: negative value
-Petry: LOL
-Gustafsson: atrocious...please buy him out after this year, he's legit cringeworthy to watch and he's not an NHL calibre player
-Chiarot: he'll be around next season, and probably just hit the UFA market the following summer. At 2.5 mil on a 3rd pair fine, but almost 5 mil, and getting power play time is hilarious.

 

[SantosHalper]

Trending up I'd say is dreaming. We'll be adding lots of kids soon and guys will be moved. There will be short term pain

Not saying we'll be worst team but wouldnt shock me to see us in the top 10 pick mix next few years and maybe we'll hit some luck for once in our lives

Not a rocket like rise but improvement nevertheless. Short term pain might be possible but trading for a right guy, that pain is more than possible to skip. 21-year old Seider and 20-year old Raymond alone lifted the team with Larkin.

Now Ed and Kasper are adjusting to the league and in their roles, and continue developing more next offseason. Ray is near or will be PPG player after this season, Larkin remains on that level and Seider is back on 50 point race. Wings won't be bad enough to win any draft lotteries in the near future. Short term pain results will be a mid 1st round pick at best. Realistically you might be able to draft another Copp with that pick.

 

[Retire91]

 

[Gniwder]

View attachment 928297

If my plant looked like that after 5 years, I'd throw it away and plant something else.

 

[wingsfannn919191]

View attachment 928289
Not a rocket like rise but improvement nevertheless. Short term pain might be possible but trading for a right guy, that pain is more than possible to skip. 21-year old Seider and 20-year old Raymond alone lifted the team with Larkin.

Now Ed and Kasper are adjusting to the league and in their roles, and continue developing more next offseason. Ray is near or will be PPG player after this season, Larkin remains on that level and Seider is back on 50 point race. Wings won't be bad enough to win any draft lotteries in the near future. Short term pain results will be a mid 1st round pick at best. Realistically you might be able to draft another Copp with that pick.

Last thing we need is to draft another copp lmao

I do think there will be short term pain. The kids that are coming up will have to adjust and I cant see a big ufa signing coming up. Maybe yzerman sees it's pointless to finish 15th again and moves a few guys.

I think it's very possible to be a top 10 team this season. This team is not ready

 

[Retire91]

If my plant looked like that after 5 years, I'd throw it away and plant something else.

If you scaled the plant's growth to the timeline of an NHL team that started out with only Larkin Bertuzzi Mantha a 6th and some spare change. So maybe more like a gollum jade than bamboo.

 

[Stephen]

Picks = cheap ELCs we will need if and when we get good. Plus you need a pipeline of talent to have continued success and not have a short window. Trading picks before you are even ready to be good is a good way to mess up a rebuild like Toronto did was my comparison. It's just an example of how things turn out when you take a short cut. Now if there is a real superstar that is young, that changes everything. Not sure who around the league is available for a 1st and a couple of or prospects.

Detroit Red Wings are loaded to make some big aggressive splashes to land star power, having a deep farm system, picks, etc. so where you sit is a lot different than the Burke era Leafs when they pulled off the Kessel deal. The only problem is the league is more watered down now, so what team has a surplus of young star talent, that they want to get rid of for.., more youth. So that's your big problem. No supply.

 

[wingsfannn919191]

these players don't have much value...

-Lyon: I'm sure we'd get like a 3rd for him, but may make sense to give him an extension. Cossa is cooking in GR, but may be wise to give him another season in the minors next year, and go with Talbot-Lyon. Then the following year we could go Lyon-Cossa. So I'd entertain extending Lyon for a few years.

-Kane: Flip to a contender at the deadline (assuming we are out). Maybe back to the Rangers or something for a 2nd and a 3rd or something? Not sure he returns a 1st...

-Berggren: He has been playing well, but the offence just isn't there. He's a borderline waiver player at this point, maybe get a late pick?

-Motte: no value, maybe a 7th

-Fischer: Resign him. Plays his role well and hustles even though he does nothing to contribute offensively.

-Veleno: late pick?

-Ras: isn't worth his contract. He should be chipping in more offensively. Keep him I guess..he is what he is at this point; a big man that doesn't really play a hard style of game at all, but also fits in at the NHL level.

-Holl: negative value
-Petry: LOL
-Gustafsson: atrocious...please buy him out after this year, he's legit cringeworthy to watch and he's not an NHL calibre player
-Chiarot: he'll be around next season, and probably just hit the UFA market the following summer. At 2.5 mil on a 3rd pair fine, but almost 5 mil, and getting power play time is hilarious.

Ya our tdl assets are once again nonexistent.

Maybe if gus is moved at 1 million soon to cash strapped teams we maybe can get 2nd or 3rd ??? Considering last few yrs he had 30+ pts ... longer we wait and it'll be a 5-7th

Same with tarasenko at like 2.4 mill a contending team will take the bite and we might get a 2nd. Sadly no ones returning a 1st unless were taking a bad contract back which I wouldnt be against unless its longterm

Agree with your stuff , kane at most gets a 2nd from whatever team he wants. we'll have 0 leverage. Berggren I'd keep one more season at this point

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

View attachment 928297

At the beginning of six years, that should be a small tree by now.

It's enough of this "it's gonna take time, be patient" garbage. We've been patient enough. This team hasn't made the playoffs since 2016 - for a historic Original 6 team that once set the standard of NHL success, that's not acceptable.

Yzerman took over in April of 2019. It's almost mid-November of 2024. Yeah, there was going to be a mess to clean up, but it shouldn't take more than five years for a bad situation to turn around.

There is no reason the Red Wings shouldn't be comfortably qualifying for the postseason by now other than maybe Yzerman isn't the cheat code we all thought we were getting.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

If you scaled the plant's growth to the timeline of an NHL team that started out with only Larkin Bertuzzi Mantha a 6th and some spare change. So maybe more like a gollum jade than bamboo.

Other NHL teams literally dind't exist the last time the Red Wings made the playoffs and have made multiple deep playoff runs and won the Cup.

Why should fans continue to shell out good money to watch this mediocre crap if the mindset from management continues to be in neutral?

Obviously games are not going to be reduced in price or made free, but you get my point.

 

[SantosHalper]

I cant see a big ufa signing coming up.

Indeed. Thats why Wings should start trading. We have the baits, someone will bite. Like Yzerman himself, on Hronek-trade. First it was no from Stevie, then he called back and said this is what i want and the deal was made.

 

[Dotter]

Looks like Red Wings are heading towards being sellers at the TDL. Not sure their current style of play is sustainable for wins, and they look bad.

TDL players:
- G Alex Lyon
- F Kane
- F Beggren
- F Motte
- F Fischer
- F Veleno
- F Rasmussen
- Entire defense outside of top line.

Bolded guys are on expiring deals who might be easier to move for less. Kane/Lyon are the guys likely to net the most return.

Weird comment. Despite having a rough schedule and the flu, Wings are keeping up with Boston and Lighting, and have surpassed our Atlantic competitors; Sens, Sabres, Canadians... all the while playing less games.

I'm guessing you're a glass half empty kinda person?