Where did Yzerman go wrong with the rebuild?

[JediOrderPizza]

I just don't understand, if people are saying he is hurt then why are they playing him? It's November, would be one thing if it was playoffs or a late season push to make it.

 

[Gniwder]

*Sips coffee*

Andrew Copp is on pace for a career year in goals and the second most points of his career.

2 goals went off his skate, 1 was EN, and the 4th was a really nice deflection. None of it is sustainable. Though it was nice that he spiced up the season with a little puck luck, the spice will run out, and we'll get bland unseasoned mash potato.

He's playing with a legit scoring winger and a center that can move the puck at the middle 6 level, so he needs to start racking up some assists. Copp/Compher need to figure out how to get the puck to Ray, meanwhile Ray needs to figure out how to find the soft spots when he's playing with 2 lesser players. Ray needs to start scoring some goals if this team is to have any chance at the playoffs.

 

[Dotter]

Debrincat was a gift. It would have been crazy not to sign him given the situation.

Tarasenko and Kane are both past their prime.

Even so these three guys would make up one line out of four on the team. Not exactly high flying offense.

Debrincat didn't sign himself. It was done by Yzerman. And Alex, Tarasenko and Kane don't fit in the box you claim. So please stop backpedaling. It's weak.

You were wrong and all need to say at this point is "sorry, I was wrong". Then all is forgiven

 

[SirKillalot]

2 goals went off his skate, 1 was EN, and the 4th was a really nice deflection. None of it is sustainable. Though it was nice that he spiced up the season with a little puck luck, the spice will run out, and we'll get bland unseasoned mash potato.

Idk, pucks kept going off Holmstrom back in the day all the time.

 

[Gniwder]

Idk, pucks kept going off Holmstrom back in the day all the time.

Half of his goals (for his entire career) was on the PP.

Copp did actually play net front on the PP his first season, and he looked like mashed potato. He had one PPG and didn't even hit double digit total.

Copp's deflection goal was pretty good, but doing something once doesn't make a person an expert.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Copp is just one example of a contract I don't like. Explain to me how we got up to the salary cap ceiling with a team that isn't going to compete for a Stanley Cup and very likely won't make the playoffs.

There aren't many great reasons to not be a cap team. As evidenced by only 6 teams having >5M of projected cap space. We have the 9th most cap space in the league currently.

Copp's deflection goal was pretty good, but doing something once doesn't make a person an expert.

No but it would be great if this board could stop complaining about Copp for 2 seconds when the dude is actually doing well. Nice, he's scoring!...oh, he scored goals the "wrong" way. What a bum.

 

[Gniwder]

Weird comment considering Yzerman traded for Alex Debrincat, just signed UFA Tarasenko, and reupped Patty Kane.

Picking up scoring wingers in UFA while drafting bottom 6 forwards is the opposite of what every other GM does. The only reasonably priced scoring help that you'll find are players with huge flaws, whether it be age or defensive liability for both. Kane, Tank, Sprong, etc.

No but it would be great if this board could stop complaining about Copp for 2 seconds when the dude is actually doing well. Nice, he's scoring!...oh, he scored goals the "wrong" way. What a bum.

I'll pause the complaining if he can start feeding Raymond the puck instead of cycling the puck back to the D every time. We need Ray to score, Copp is on his line now.

 

[Dotter]

Picking up scoring wingers in UFA while drafting bottom 6 forwards is the opposite of what every other GM does. The only reasonably priced scoring help that you'll find are players with huge flaws, whether it be age or defensive liability for both. Kane, Tank, Sprong, etc.


I'll pause the complaining if he can start feeding Raymond the puck instead of cycling the puck back to the D every time. We need Ray to score, Copp is on his line now.

Off the top of my head , Raymond, Finnie, Lombardi are all SFY drafted scoring forwards. So there's that.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Picking up scoring wingers in UFA while drafting bottom 6 forwards is the opposite of what every other GM does. The only reasonably priced scoring help that you'll find are players with huge flaws, whether it be age or defensive liability for both.

Kind of feels like you're making the opposite point you think you are. They're drafting players that project as not having "huge flaws" precisely because those offensively gifted but one-dimensional forwards can be found in UFA.

 

[mikerooooose]

Debrincat didn't sign himself. It was done by Yzerman. And Alex, Tarasenko and Kane don't fit in the box you claim. So please stop backpedaling. It's weak.

You were wrong and all need to say at this point is "sorry, I was wrong". Then all is forgiven

Ok bro!

Debrincat made it clear he wanted to be in Detroit. Basically handcuffed Ottawa.

Kane and Tarasenko are 3rd line players on good team. With Kane maybe on PP1.

Yzerman is stuck in his ways and his ways might not pay off as expected. Right now they look one dimensional and boring. They lack any serious and reliable offensive threat.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Kane and Tarasenko are 3rd line players on good team. With Kane maybe on PP1.

Tarasenko is currently 8th in icetime among our forwards. For all intents and purposes he's a 3rd liner.

 

[mikerooooose]

Tarasenko is currently 8th in icetime among our forwards. For all intents and purposes he's a 3rd liner.

Not arguing that.

Just not accepting Yzerman isn't all about these 3C/2C, mid-type players because he signed two past prime veterans and a guy who lined up to be on the team.

 

[Dotter]

Ok bro!

Debrincat made it clear he wanted to be in Detroit. Basically handcuffed Ottawa.

Kane and Tarasenko are 3rd line players on good team. With Kane maybe on PP1.

Yzerman is stuck in his ways and his ways might not pay off as expected. Right now they look one dimensional and boring. They lack any serious and reliable offensive threat.

There's literally only three 'good teams' in the Atlanta division. Wings aren't one of them. Yzerman's drafting, however, has been good. Wings position is improving each season as expected.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Not arguing that.

Just not accepting Yzerman isn't all about these 3C/2C, mid-type players because he signed two past prime veterans and a guy who lined up to be on the team.

Because the only real ways to get higher tiers of talent is

A- draft
B- trade futures

and going the B route too agressively too early is honestly dumb.

 

[Nnowski]

There's literally only three 'good teams' in the Atlanta division. Wings aren't one of them. Yzerman's drafting, however, has been good. Wings position is improving each season as expected.

Yzerman has had 6 drafts since joining Detroit. He has had multiple top 10 picks and multiple very high 2nd/3rd rd picks. He's managed to draft 2 top 4 dmen, 1 #6 dman and 1 top 6 forward.

Not hitting on a single non top 6 pick is very bad

 

[schuelma24]

Yzerman has had 6 drafts since joining Detroit. He has had multiple top 10 picks and multiple very high 2nd/3rd rd picks. He's managed to draft 2 top 4 dmen, 1 #6 dman and 1 top 6 forward.

Not hitting on a single non top 6 pick is very bad

First I'd argue it's wayyyyyy premature to say Kasper and Danielson haven't hit yet.

I'd also argue Cossa is trending towards solid NHL goalie and ASP is trending towards a top 4/PP producer.

 

[Dotter]

Yzerman has had 6 drafts since joining Detroit. He has had multiple top 10 picks and multiple very high 2nd/3rd rd picks. He's managed to draft 2 top 4 dmen, 1 #6 dman and 1 top 6 forward.

Not hitting on a single non top 6 pick is very bad

Interesting you are declaring 2023 and 2024 a bust. Looks like you are new here so I won't rip on you too bad. I'll let others on here educate you.

 

[Nnowski]

Interesting you are declaring 2023 and 2024 a bust. Looks like you are new here so I won't rip on you too bad. I'll let others on here educate you.

Not declaring it a bust. But Danielson is currently doing poorly in GR and Kasper has 1 secondary assist in 7 games. Not exactly how you'd like their seasons to be going

 

[schuelma24]

Not declaring it a bust. But Danielson is currently doing poorly in GR and Kasper has 1 secondary assist in 7 games. Not exactly how you'd like their seasons to be going

holy sample size batman!

 

[JediOrderPizza]

Some rookies only get 20-40 pts in their first year. Don't look at Zetterberg's, and he was what 22? Kasper is 20, this is also when most of the team is slumping. He also improves the lineup by having certain players slotted better.

I liked how he has played and sure if you just stat watch they are all doing bad I guess.

I'd also argue that Seider is a top pairing dman and not just a top four, and also that Raymond is a 1st line winger.

 

[norrisnick]

Some rookies only get 20-40 pts in their first year. Don't look at Zetterberg's, and he was what 22? Kasper is 20, this is also when most of the team is slumping. He also improves the lineup by having certain players slotted better.

I liked how he has played and sure if you just stat watch they are all doing bad I guess.

I'd also argue that Seider is a top pairing dman and not just a top four, and also that Raymond is a 1st line winger.

Amongst other issues, ya.

 

[Nnowski]

holy sample size batman!

Well if we're saying he's been good at drafting... It's a little premature

 

[mikerooooose]

It’s pretty wild that there are people out there that think something that functionally amounts to “yzerman prefers lesser players more than great players”

I'm saying Yzerman likes a certain type of player and maybe the entire team/every draft pick should not be that type of player.

Maybe it will work out. The draft picks could continue to grow, bad contracts come off the books in the next 1-2 years, etc...

But if it doesn't, he certainly doesn't come across as adaptable.

 

[Dotter]

Well if we're saying he's been good at drafting... It's a little premature

Using your logic, all teams are bad at drafting. Yzerman scored some of the best players available in the 1st round in 2019 and 2020. 2021 is looking pretty amazing as well, esp when you add in Cossa.

So yes, fact is Yzerman's drafting has been good. We can judge that based on Seider and Raymond alone. We can look at how good ASP and Cossa look. And Kasper has been helping DRWs win NHL games.

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

Yzerman has had 6 drafts since joining Detroit. He has had multiple top 10 picks and multiple very high 2nd/3rd rd picks. He's managed to draft 2 top 4 dmen, 1 #6 dman and 1 top 6 forward.

Not hitting on a single non top 6 pick is very bad

terrible trolling. be better