Lafleurs Guy
Guuuuuuuy!
- Jul 20, 2007
- 82,137
- 55,543
File this under the Buffalo comment I made earlier, I don't understand why these guys aren't better. They've got some talent on that roster.
When does the Yzerplan start getting criticized?
- Thread starter Cloned
- Start date
and Rantanen has been on 3 teams in like 2 months… it’s pretty meaningless
It was a horrid trade that simply can’t be defended
StlBigFly
Registered User
- Mar 29, 2012
- 689
- 431
Thank you.
feels like the world is full of more wrong information than right and I’m needing to improve on picking which is which lol.
Dotter
THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
Context matters. Rantanen could have signed a long term contract, but refused. Walman doesn't get to make choices, he gets moved indiscriminately.
You’re right context matters.
STL traded him when he was a prospect and they were making a playoff run and wanted Leddy
SJ traded a good player for a 1st round pick when they’re purposely trying to lose
DET traded a good player on a team desperate for good D and paid a 2nd to do so for…… reasons??
IWantSakicAsMyGM
Registered User
There's some talent, but they also have Ben Chiarot playing over 21 minutes per game, and JT Compher in the top 6, so they need even more talent to push those guys into more appropriate roles.
For Buffalo, they have more high level talent, but their starting goaltender is pretty terrible and signed for 4 more seasons. I think the Avs demonstrated just how hard terrible goaltending is to overcome, even for a team with elite players.
bov
Registered User
- Nov 13, 2010
- 8,050
- 4,355
I'm a believer in Yzerman but he has made some mistakes. You can always hide behind the excuse of being patient and building through the draft, but there's no excuse for going this long without making the playoffs or at least trying to bolster your lineup to take that next step. Holl signing, ditching Walman for nothing, just not acquiring or signing the right blend of players...he hasn't played it perfectly.
That said, the Wings do have a great base of prospects and assets, so it's only a matter of time even though I say that every year. I still think he is one of the better GMs in the league despite Detroit underachieving during his tenure.
That said, the Wings do have a great base of prospects and assets, so it's only a matter of time even though I say that every year. I still think he is one of the better GMs in the league despite Detroit underachieving during his tenure.
SlapJack
Scum bag Sens
- Dec 6, 2010
- 2,061
- 1,434
Did they make the playoffs last year? Nope. And they aren't making it this year either. Sorry you're just finding that out now, but it's not happening.
Golden_Jet
Registered User
- Sep 21, 2005
- 28,612
- 15,333
As a Wings fan it has been some painful years for sure. We do have some nice pieces but do need more. Annoyed nothing was done this deadline but do respect he isn't willing to mortgage the future just to make the playoffs and get bounced. Larkin, Raymond, Seider all are signed to team friendly contracts, Edvinsson is also a gamer as well as Kasper. They have Cossa, Augustine and Sandin-Pellika that are high end prospects to come in yet and a boat load of cap space. I've said they would make the playoffs the last few years and was disappointed but imo it's when Cossa is ready is when he'll make a splash in think anyways.
Beukeboom Fan
Registered User
Just FYI, but that calculator assumes you play all 82 games in your "home state" so it doubles the impact. Each player pays tax in the municipality where the game is played. So Andrew Barkov pays Ontario tax when he's in TOR, and Mitch Marner pays US/FLA tax when playing in FLA.The study I don’t have like freely at my fingertips to link broke down the situation well. If I can recall it I’ll edit and provide that source but it’s something I read last year….
It is not simply the tax rate and that oversimplifies too far. Players care about their individual effective tax rate not the general statewide percentage. it is the combination of things one can withhold, and to be honest, a bunch of tax stuff I didn’t care to really read apart from looking at it and thinking okay that makes sense. High net worth taxation is not the same as traditional income level earners. They broke down specific active players and showed that it’s roughly a 10-12% difference. They compared multiple players to different tax environments. Not all were equally bad but on average the gap is substantial, based on the study. I’ll try to dig it up.
I believe this is the group that had the study but I don’t see the specific study. Instead, here’s a robust calculator that does even more than a study. It appears Detroit to Dallas is a 7% swing, so you were closer than I was. Still, if you’re simultaneously attracting the best talent and getting it 7% off…that’s broken imo. If you pick Toronto and a no tax team it’s like 15%. Kinda wouldn’t be down with this if I were the leafs.
Canadian teams already face exchange rate headwinds. It’s going to damage the nhl to give these Canadian groups such opposition to success. As the salary cap rises the impact of exchange rate challenges grows with it. To have these teams also really challenged to be competitive is bad. Detroit doesn’t have it as bad but to me it’s negligible how undesirable some place could be so long as a group of places maintain the significant advantage. 5% is about as bad as 10% is about as bad as 15 - once youre in the bad group you’re passed over no matter how bad it is - until enough talent has filled the slots in those beneficial areas, the you and the other 26 are picking through the scraps and paying more for them, some paying much more; others just a little more…. A terrible system that doesn’t appear to be sustainable.
It does get more complicated with signing bonuses and other tax strategies. At a high level, I'd be really wary of any simplified system because there is a ton of nuance.
Bigtrout
Registered User
- Dec 8, 2021
- 473
- 1,117
Im not saying otherwise but pretending Detroit didnt start their rebuild years before either Montreal or Columbus is just false
SlapJack
Scum bag Sens
- Dec 6, 2010
- 2,061
- 1,434
Take a look at their schedule for the rest of the season and tell me how it looks. Sure I'd still have hope if I was a Wings fan, but I wouldn't put any money on it
voyageur
Grizzled vet
- Jul 10, 2011
- 11,762
- 12,556
The goalie turnstile has been brutal. Husso was a bad start to Yzerman's plan. Is the season in Mrazek's hands now? Does the turnstile end with Cossa?
There's no team I was more certain would pick up a d-man than Detroit, that one shocks me, because Stevie Y built Tampa on Hedman, Sergachev, Mc Donough, and the Wings have to wait awhile for Sandin-Pellika to have an impact, just to establish a strong top 3 on defense. The Walman and Maatta trades didn't improve the defense.
Pavels Dog
Registered User
I'm not a native english speaker but "competing for the playoffs" in my understanding means being a team that competes for the playoffs. Missing by less than a point I would describe as competing for the playoffs.
If my understanding of the nuances of your phrasing is wrong I apologize.
Suntouchable13
Registered User
Fatass
Registered User
- Apr 17, 2017
- 25,505
- 17,084
Suntouchable13
Registered User
SirKillalot
Registered User
Speculation is culture and wanting room for some movement that never materialized.
Either way, no point in dying over Walman, he not getting this team to any Stanley Cup.
Fatass
Registered User
- Apr 17, 2017
- 25,505
- 17,084
Every GM makes mistakes. Some make bigger ones that really hurt a franchise. Walman was clearly a mistake, but a minor one.,
Ulysses31
Registered User
leash it at least 2 more full seasons after this 1, not getting fired anytime soon
He’s not getting the team to the cup, but would have been a massive help on getting the team to the playoffs.
Even if they didn’t want him, they’d have an extra 1st +2nd if Yzerman didn’t absolutely butcher this
It should be 1. If he goes into another season with this putrid of a defense/secondary scoring or relies on a Talbot/Mrazek combo then he should be fired
SlapJack
Scum bag Sens
- Dec 6, 2010
- 2,061
- 1,434
No, you understood the phrase perfectly and your interpretation was correct. It was more about how I perceive them as not a real contender, and also to point out how it's worse for a team to be on the edge of making the playoffs year after year. It's really hard to get better when you need a star player, but then you're picking in the teens of the 1st round. You get stuck in limbo - never bad enough to get an impact player, but never good enough to have that playoff experience.
They were close last year, I remember how they got screwed by a bad decision in that Philadelphia-Washington game I think it was? But even if they did make it, they probably shouldn't have. Still more building to do
