When does the Yzerplan start getting criticized?

[ricky0034]

When did they finish 9th last season? News to me.

There’s also essentially no difference between picks 6-10 in NHL potential. Certainly not the last few years

And for the 4th time, utterly hilarious Andrew Copp is both a horrible player and single handedly keeping the Wings out of last place.

this is pretty silly considering the year being talked about had Michkov available at 7

 

[nbwingsfan]

this is pretty silly considering the year being talked about had Michkov available at 7

The player that many teams passed on due to a number of factors.

 

[norrisnick]

this is pretty silly considering the year being talked about had Michkov available at 7

You and I both know that Yzerman would have taken Danielson anyway.

 

[ricky0034]

The player that many teams passed on due to a number of factors.

 

[Boud]

It seems like Yzerman wanted a bunch of vets around to ease in the younger impactful players coming in, and to have a shot at the playoffs. It kinda worked, but a lot of the moves he has done haven't panned out and/or don't provide great value so it doesn't look good.

I think the real plan was to be competitive when Edvinsson, Sandin-Pellika, B-Nygard, Kasper, Danielson, Wallinder, Cossa etc start making an impact. Majority of the younger Wings players haven't made it to the roster yet so some of these vets are just place holders. People were a bit too fast calling them a playoff team, they aren't there yet.

Not excusing some of the moves that were made but I think in a way this was part of the plan. Detroit was always a bit behind in their rebuild if you compared to Ottawa, and even Ottawa is still trying to find a way. Detroit should be legit in 2-3 years.

 

[ricky0034]

You and I both know that Yzerman would have taken Danielson anyway.

probably

but that would be a mistake by Yzerman as well, not an immutable fact of life

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

We were never going to beat the Rangers. They're too fast and too good at playmaking.

Why did Utah, who missed the playoffs last year as Arizona, hang a six-spot on them, then?

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

Not at the state the 2019 Wings were in, no. The roster he stepped into, the 2019-2020 Red Wings were one of the worst non-expansion (or within 2-3 years of expansion) teams of all time. Dead last in the cap era. You don't turn that around in 5 years when Larkin was the only redeemable asset on that team. I mean, he could have done some stupid shit like flipping picks for players, but that's not at all sustainable. That's a one and done playoff run which does no one any good.

He's got a mediocre team right now. But he also has 5 more 1st round picks knocking on the door.

If he wasn’t going to turn it around for them to be at the very least, a playoff team, in half a decade (in a league where literally half the teams make it in), then what was the point of hiring Yzerman?

He was hired to be special, not just another run of the mill GM. Detroit could have hired someone like Marc Bergeron or Jeff Norton or Chuck Fletcher - they’d be right where they are now.

“You don’t turn it around in 5 years when Larkin was the only redeemable asset on that team”? The Vegas Golden Knights and Seattle Kraken literally didn’t exist the last time the Red Wings made the playoffs and had zero roster players. Vegas has made the playoffs every year but one and the Kraken went to Game 7 of Round 2 in their sophomore season.

I can’t understand the hesitancy by you and others to start demanding more and come to terms with the fact that no playoffs after five years on the job (regardless of what he came into) isn’t good enough for someone who was regarded as one of the best, if not the best, GM in the game.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

I think another 2 seasons, though to be fair we missed last year with the same pts as WSH and if Phi hadn't pulled their goalie when they were already eliminated we get in. People are acting like we were 25 pts out last season or something.

If Detroit hadn’t fallen head first into a wood-chipper in March by looking completely disinterested against opponents like Arizona and Columbus and Pittsburgh, Torts pulling the goalie wouldn’t have mattered.

 

[Pavels Dog]

If he wasn’t going to turn it around for them to be at the very least, a playoff team, in half a decade (in a league where literally half the teams make it in), then what was the point of hiring Yzerman?

The point was to do a legitimate rebuild.

“You don’t turn it around in 5 years when Larkin was the only redeemable asset on that team”? The Vegas Golden Knights and Seattle Kraken literally didn’t exist the last time the Red Wings made the playoffs and had zero roster players. Vegas has made the playoffs every year but one and the Kraken went to Game 7 of Round 2 in their sophomore season.

Using expansion teams as your examples completely invalidates your opinion tbh. I would also take Detroit's future outlook over Vegas and Seattle every day. Yes, Yzerman could have greatly sacrificed futures to get into the playoffs and lose a round. It would ruin the inane arguments by some of the haters, but it wouldn't be a benefit to the long-term health of the team.

I can’t understand the hesitancy by you and others to start demanding more

We are demanding more. But we are 3 games into the season. If we're 20-30 games in and not close to a playoff spot there will be building pressure to make changes to the roster and/or coaching.
Again, we are 3 games into the season. 3.

 

[norrisnick]

If he wasn’t going to turn it around for them to be at the very least, a playoff team, in half a decade (in a league where literally half the teams make it in), then what was the point of hiring Yzerman?

He was hired to be special, not just another run of the mill GM. Detroit could have hired someone like Marc Bergeron or Jeff Norton or Chuck Fletcher - they’d be right where they are now.

“You don’t turn it around in 5 years when Larkin was the only redeemable asset on that team”? The Vegas Golden Knights and Seattle Kraken literally didn’t exist the last time the Red Wings made the playoffs and had zero roster players. Vegas has made the playoffs every year but one and the Kraken went to Game 7 of Round 2 in their sophomore season.

I can’t understand the hesitancy by you and others to start demanding more and come to terms with the fact that no playoffs after five years on the job (regardless of what he came into) isn’t good enough for someone who was regarded as one of the best, if not the best, GM in the game.

Because the Wings needed a GM.

He was hired to GM the team. That's what he's doing. You ascribing some mythical qualities and subsequent expectations on him is entirely on you.

Do you not understand how the most recent expansion drafts worked? If Yzerman got to ditch everything, get a top 2 pick, and pick a roster full of the 6/7th best players from every team, he'd be much further ahead. Vegas and Seattle didn't start in a flaming pit of shit. Yzerman did.

I demand plenty from Yzerman. But I live in the real world and not some imagined fantasy land where GMs are heroes and can conjure elite players out of nothing.

 

[Kshahdoo]

The player that many teams passed on due to a number of factors.

And who still scored 2 goals in his 3rd NHL game...

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Why did Utah, who missed the playoffs last year as Arizona, hang a six-spot on them, then?

Why did Vegas make the SCF in their first year as spare parts

I don't have the answer to that question

 

[nbwingsfan]

View attachment 917250

That ain’t goal posts. Thats a fact.

Hes also played a whopping 3 nhl games lol

 

[Frk It]

I'm saying conventional wisdom is that it's better to either be contending or "tanking" to get future superstars. As is, the Wings finished 9th without significant injury issues and without a youth infusion on the roster. Without "tanking", it makes it tougher to acquire future superstar talent which usually goes high in the draft. Are you stating that 3-year run of signing a bunch of Vets to Mid-out at a time when the bulk of prospects are still in the Minors/Europe/NCAA/Juniors is an ideal stage of a rebuild?

Average age of the Wings Top-16 most utilized Skaters

2021-22: 24.375, Finished 25/32
2022-23: 26.0625, Finished 24/32
2023-24: 28.1875, Finished 18/32

You want to praise the rise in the standings while also noting that the "core" pieces are still developing and so they can't be judged yet. Can't have it both ways big dog.

Criticizing a GM for not more aggressively tanking in a time where the league intentionally put in place a lottery system to deter tanking is a tough sell in my book. Especially when this team in particular has already had 7 years in a row of drafting top 10.

Right now last place gets you most likely pick #3. Up until a year or two ago, it got you most likely pick #4. Most GM's are not going to go out of their way to get pick 3 or 4.

Congrats to you on your team getting lucky and getting Bedard. We were dead last in 19/20 and were rewarded with pick #4.

Tanking is not too viable of a gameplan for a GM nowadays.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

The player that many teams passed on due to a number of factors.

I'm not a mathematician but I think it was 6 teams, if you want an exact number.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

If he wasn’t going to turn it around for them to be at the very least, a playoff team, in half a decade (in a league where literally half the teams make it in), then what was the point of hiring Yzerman?

He was hired to be special, not just another run of the mill GM. Detroit could have hired someone like Marc Bergeron or Jeff Norton or Chuck Fletcher - they’d be right where they are now.

“You don’t turn it around in 5 years when Larkin was the only redeemable asset on that team”? The Vegas Golden Knights and Seattle Kraken literally didn’t exist the last time the Red Wings made the playoffs and had zero roster players. Vegas has made the playoffs every year but one and the Kraken went to Game 7 of Round 2 in their sophomore season.

I can’t understand the hesitancy by you and others to start demanding more and come to terms with the fact that no playoffs after five years on the job (regardless of what he came into) isn’t good enough for someone who was regarded as one of the best, if not the best, GM in the game.

IMO - to compare the Wings to an expansion team isn't fair. Both team had an expansion draft with pretty favorable rules for the expansion teams and they (especially Vegas) were able to take advantage. The Wings obviously didn't have that. To expect a GM to turn around a bottom tier franchise (which the Wings were in 2019) like you seem to think is incredibly optimistic.

If things were going perfectly - the Wings would have 1-2 more players from SY's first 3 drafts beyond Seider & Raymond on the NHL roster. I think they have those players in the pipeline - but it's up to them to prove that they're ready. There will be plenty of roster spots available over the next 2 years for the kids to step up.

 

[Oddbob]

Criticizing a GM for not more aggressively tanking in a time where the league intentionally put in place a lottery system to deter tanking is a tough sell in my book. Especially when this team in particular has already had 7 years in a row of drafting top 10.

Right now last place gets you most likely pick #3. Up until a year or two ago, it got you most likely pick #4. Most GM's are not going to go out of their way to get pick 3 or 4.

Congrats to you on your team getting lucky and getting Bedard. We were dead last in 19/20 and were rewarded with pick #4.

Tanking is not too viable of a gameplan for a GM nowadays.

But his team got lucky, so that means Yzerman sucks at everything.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

 

[Suntouchable13]

Is Derrick Lalonde on the hot seat? I thought he'd be fired after yesterday's game. Do the Wings/Yzerman still believe in him?

 

[bossram]

Is Derrick Lalonde on the hot seat? I thought he'd be fired after yesterday's game. Do the Wings/Yzerman still believe in him?

He probably is, but given the roster, I'm not sure what more he's expected to accomplish.

The problems are firmly in the executive suite.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

He probably is, but given the roster, I'm not sure what more he's expected to accomplish.

The problems are firmly in the executive suite.

Maybe for them not to look completely lethargic and unengaged on the ice, for starters.

Last night's entire game along with the second and third periods of the opener vs. Pittsburgh, they looked like they were sleepwalking, exactly how they looked during that horrid stretch in March of last season in must-win games against garbage opponents like Arizona, Montreal and Columbus.

 

[kook10]

He probably is, but given the roster, I'm not sure what more he's expected to accomplish.

The problems are firmly in the executive suite.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

On the bright side it doesn’t look like they’re going to fall behind Ottawa and Buffalo at least

 

[qc14]

Multiple things can be true at once. Yzerman undoubtedly came into a horrible situation in Detroit and has gotten bad lottery luck. That being said -- everything that he can control from trades to UFA signings to drafting has just been nowhere near good enough.

The prospect pool is fine but not amazing and the two premium pieces of the rebuild are a very very good but probably not top 10 in the league in his position good winger and a defenseman who's speedrunning Tyler Myers' career. They've nuked the cap sheet signing a whole lot of horrendous misses in UFA, especially in goal and on defense.

And what does he have to show for it? Missing the playoffs in the easiest year to make it of the last 10 to a god-awful Capitals team (and please spare me the whining about PHI pulling the goalie -- Detroit went head to head against WSH twice in the last ten games and lost both), and starting the season 1-3