When does the Yzerplan start getting criticized?

[Pavels Dog]

May have mentioned it in the thread but I truely believe Yzerman got pressured to turn the corner the first off season he went hunting in FA in 2022. They needed to bottom out 1 or 2 more years as they hadn't gotten THAT guy upfront. Just imagine how different their complexion would be with Bedard, Fantilli, Carlsson or Michkov.

You think they're 20 points worse without Andrew Copp

 

[Aladyyn]

Not winning the draft lottery really doesn't have anything to do with it.

Today's team likely isn't any better with Hughes instead of Seider.
Today's team likely isn't any better with Lafreniere instead of Raymond.

Power instead of Edvinsson would probably make a small difference, but we wouldn't be contenders today.
Slafkovsky is coming around, but we wouldn't suddenly be contenders today with him.

There's a reason most of these teams with these players are out of the playoffs. These are still children as far as the NHL goes. Quite simply, not enough time has passed. Building through the draft takes time. If other organizations don't want to give their GM's enough time to draft and build in a sustainable way, I think that's a bad thing and that's on them.

Power would be comfortably your best defenseman lmao what is this

 

[StreetHawk]

You think they're 20 points worse without Andrew Copp

People really forget how truly bad the bottom couple/few teams have been over the past few years.

Like you said, Detroit cleared the 4th worst team by 20 points last season and by 11 points from the 5th worst in 2022. They are close to 30 points ahead of Anaheim who are 3rd worst this season.

I think there are some just want Detroit to have the same on ice results as a team like Anaheim, who taken from the 2019 season. Ducks were 8th worst in 18/19. They followed that up in the next 5 seasons, which includes this one with a 2nd worst, 10th worst, worst, and trending as a 3rd worst team this season. So, 3/4 years in the bottom 3. Include 2020 and there's a 5th worst finish as well.

 

[izlez]

Power would be comfortably your best defenseman lmao what is this

Power is COMFORTABLY better than Seider today? Not sure I believe that.
I'm sure that would make Dahlin also comfortably better than Seider.

So, as I look at Dahlin+Power, the gods amongst men that they are, sitting COMFORTABLY out of the playoffs, I stand by my statement that if he were added to the Detroit Red Wings, he wouldn't suddenly have the Wings competing for the cup in 2024

 

[norrisnick]

*posts in a 37 page long hate-fest on Yzerman*

"HEY GUYS WHY DOES EVERYONE GIVE YZERMAN A FREE PASS???"

The real answer to the question of the thread is 10 years ago if you've paid any attention to hockey discourse online.

 

[WarriorofTime]

You think they're 20 points worse without Andrew Copp

Copp alone?

Since 2022 offseason
Traded for and signed Ville Husso (1995) for 3 years
Signed Andrew Copp (1994) for 5 years
Signed Olli Maatta (1994) for 1 year, then extended for 2 more years
Signed Ben Chiarot (1991) for 4 years
Signed David Perron (1988) for 2 years
Signed Austin Czarnik (1992) for 2 years
Signed Jake Walman (1996) for 1 year, then extended for 3 more years (traded for 3/21/2022)
Extended Dylan Larkin (1996) for 8 years
Signed James Reimer (1988) for 1 year
Signed Justin Holl (1992) for 3 years
Signed Daniel Sprong (1997) for 1 year
Signed Alex Lyon (1992) for 2 years
Signed J.T. Compher (1995) for 5 years
Signed Shayne Gostisbehere (1993) for 1 year
Signed Christian Fischer (1997) for 1 year
Traded for and extended Alex DeBrincat (1997) for 4 years
Traded for Jeff Petry (1987) (signed for 2 more years at that point)
Signed Patrick Kane (1988) for 1 year

Not sure how that is anything but a conscious veteran infusion up and down the lineup over two off-seasons, that in the aggregate and replaced with different and more short-term focused signings to reach the cap floor could lead to much fewer points in the standings and better odds of landing a "blue chip" draft prospect.

 

[nbwingsfan]

There's "no-hate"...just trying to break through the nepotism with rational thinking.

I’m still waiting for you to explain how incremental improvement each and every season since he took over the worst roster in the NHL with arguably the worst prospect pool warrants being fired ?

You think they're 20 points worse without Andrew Copp

According to the posters in here all our UFA signings suck (Some do) while also simultaneously winning us games.

 

[ZDH]

Power would be comfortably your best defenseman lmao what is this

Seider > Power

Easily

 

[WarriorofTime]

According to the posters in here all our UFA signings suck (Some do) while also simultaneously winning us games.

I would say they're just the right group for a team that is trying to sneak into the last wildcard spot.

 

[schuelma24]

Copp alone?

Since 2022 offseason
Traded for and signed Ville Husso (1995) for 3 years
Signed Andrew Copp (1994) for 5 years
Signed Olli Maatta (1994) for 1 year, then extended for 2 more years
Signed Ben Chiarot (1991) for 4 years
Signed David Perron (1988) for 2 years
Signed Austin Czarnik (1992) for 2 years
Signed Jake Walman (1996) for 1 year, then extended for 3 more years (traded for 3/21/2022)
Extended Dylan Larkin (1996) for 8 years
Signed James Reimer (1988) for 1 year
Signed Justin Holl (1992) for 3 years
Signed Daniel Sprong (1997) for 1 year
Signed Alex Lyon (1992) for 2 years
Signed J.T. Compher (1995) for 5 years
Signed Shayne Gostisbehere (1993) for 1 year
Signed Christian Fischer (1997) for 1 year
Traded for and extended Alex DeBrincat (1997) for 4 years
Traded for Jeff Petry (1987) (signed for 2 more years at that point)
Signed Patrick Kane (1988) for 1 year

Not sure how that is anything but a conscious veteran infusion up and down the lineup over two off-seasons, that in the aggregate and replaced with different and more short-term focused signings to reach the cap floor could lead to much fewer points in the standings and better odds of landing a "blue chip" draft prospect.

The only one on that list that moves the needle on a top 1-3 draft pick is trading Larkin - and Detroit would be that much further away from a playoff spot if they traded him. But I'm sure you and others on this board would be praising Yzerman for his long term brilliance as the Wings entered his 5th year looking towards a top 5 draft pick.

 

[WarriorofTime]

The only one on that list that moves the needle on a top 1-3 draft pick is trading Larkin - and Detroit would be that much further away from a playoff spot if they traded him. But I'm sure you and others on this board would be praising Yzerman for his long term brilliance as the Wings entered his 5th year looking towards a top 5 draft pick.

I can't tell if the consensus held by the majority of Wings fans is that Yzerman has done a great job for improving the team's positioning in the standings or for building a long-term viable Stanley Cup contending threat. It seems to go back and forth with every post.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Copp alone?

Since 2022 offseason
Traded for and signed Ville Husso (1995) for 3 years
Signed Andrew Copp (1994) for 5 years
Signed Olli Maatta (1994) for 1 year, then extended for 2 more years
Signed Ben Chiarot (1991) for 4 years
Signed David Perron (1988) for 2 years
Signed Austin Czarnik (1992) for 2 years
Signed Jake Walman (1996) for 1 year, then extended for 3 more years (traded for 3/21/2022)
Extended Dylan Larkin (1996) for 8 years
Signed James Reimer (1988) for 1 year
Signed Justin Holl (1992) for 3 years
Signed Daniel Sprong (1997) for 1 year
Signed Alex Lyon (1992) for 2 years
Signed J.T. Compher (1995) for 5 years
Signed Shayne Gostisbehere (1993) for 1 year
Signed Christian Fischer (1997) for 1 year
Traded for and extended Alex DeBrincat (1997) for 4 years
Traded for Jeff Petry (1987) (signed for 2 more years at that point)
Signed Patrick Kane (1988) for 1 year

Not sure how that is anything but a conscious veteran infusion up and down the lineup over two off-seasons, that in the aggregate and replaced with different and more short-term focused signings to reach the cap floor could lead to much fewer points in the standings and better odds of landing a "blue chip" draft prospect.

I didn't realize signing guys who were 26, 27, 28 - which would be guys like Larkin, Husso, Walman, Compher, Fischer, and DeBrincat, and maybe 1 or 2 others - is a "veteran infusion" and a bad thing, especially when 2 of them are having 25-goal, 60-point seasons. I also didn't realize Kane for 1 year (who's been a PPG player with almost 20 goals), Reimer for 1 year, or Perron for 2 years (and he was 24-32-56 last year) is such a bad thing.

You go back even 2 years ago, 5 of the top-6 scorers on the team and 6 of the top-9 were 25 or under, with Bertuzzi and Fabbri age 26. Bertuzzi got shipped for a 1st at the next deadline because he was going to walk as a UFA; Pius Suter (25 at the time) walked as a UFA after '22-23. Filip Hronek got shipped to Vancouver for a 1st and a 2nd. [If not traded, he gets signed to a longer-term deal and is another name in that "veteran infusion" list.] If Larkiung isn't signed, you're left with ... Robbi Fabbri, Lucas Raymond and Moritz Seider. Who was going to step in and fill those spots from within? Not Zadina. Not Joe Veleno, who's currently having a career year at .... 11-15-26. Not Michael Rasmussen, who's also having a career year at ... 13-20-33.

I'm not sure what the proposed strategy is here, either. Play all the kids, no one older than 24? Buffalo has tried this, it hasn't worked. Ottawa is trying it, it's not working. Edmonton tried it, it didn't work until it lucked into McDavid. Someone has to play those spots, and if it's a "veteran infusion" where guys are there for 1-2 years, I don't get why it's such a problem when there's no one in the system that's obviously going to step in, much less step in and do better.

 

[norrisnick]

Not winning the draft lottery really doesn't have anything to do with it.

Today's team likely isn't any better with Hughes instead of Seider.
Today's team likely isn't any better with Lafreniere instead of Raymond.

Power instead of Edvinsson would probably make a small difference, but we wouldn't be contenders today.
Slafkovsky is coming around, but we wouldn't suddenly be contenders today with him.

There's a reason most of these teams with these players are out of the playoffs. These are still children as far as the NHL goes. Quite simply, not enough time has passed. Building through the draft takes time. If other organizations don't want to give their GM's enough time to draft and build in a sustainable way, I think that's a bad thing and that's on them.

How would Power in GR have helped the Wings in any way?

 

[WarriorofTime]

I'm not sure what the proposed strategy is here, either. Play all the kids, no one older than 24? Buffalo has tried this, it hasn't worked. Ottawa is trying it, it's not working. Edmonton tried it, it didn't work until it lucked into McDavid. Someone has to play those spots, and if it's a "veteran infusion" where guys are there for 1-2 years, I don't get why it's such a problem when there's no one in the system that's obviously going to step in, much less step in and do better.

So Edmonton sucked, kept sucking when they had the first in crappy drafts to have the first, so sucked some more and then they got McDavid and Draisaitl and no longer suck. May even win a Cup. Doesn’t sound so bad to me.

 

[Dotter]

So Edmonton sucked, kept sucking when they had the first in crappy drafts to have the first, so sucked some more and then they got McDavid and Draisaitl and no longer suck. May even win a Cup. Doesn’t sound so bad to me.

After McDavid was drafted he made one playoff appearance. Ken Holland gets hired and they make the playoffs every single year. Even made it to the finals. This year they could win the cup.

Ken Holland is a proven winner. He just can't bottom out and rebuild. If he has a good core, he can make the necessary tweaks to win.

 

[Dotter]

You've missed the playoff 7 years in a row, may or may not be 8 soon. Not sure you're in a position to throw shade.

It's not throwing shade when the aforementioned teams are regressing despite continuously getting multiple top 10 picks from losing (as that is all they can do), and effectively become a farm system for other teams?

Whereas, since Yzerman joined the DRW, they've been incrementally getting better each and every season... winning MORE. The young core gets to learn how to win during these big games down the stretch.

The tanking teams are always on the bottom and have been tanking so long they think winning is drafting 1st overall year-after-year. Maybe Yzerman should poach those young players on the tanking teams, bring them over to a team on the rise that's actually trying to win.

7 year drought is long enough. It's showtime!

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

After McDavid was drafted he made one playoff appearance. Ken Holland gets hired and they make the playoffs every single year. Even made it to the finals. This year they could win the cup.

Ken Holland is a proven winner. He just can't bottom out and rebuild. If he has a good core, he can make the necessary tweaks to win.

You mean their cup of coffee in the WCF in '22?

 

[schuelma24]

I can't tell if the consensus held by the majority of Wings fans is that Yzerman has done a great job for improving the team's positioning in the standings or for building a long-term viable Stanley Cup contending threat. It seems to go back and forth with every post.

I can't tell if the consensus held by the majority of HFboards fans is that Yzerman has done a horrible job for improving the team's positioning in the standings or for building a long-term viable Stanley Cup contending threat. It seems to go back and forth with every post.

 

[Oddbob]

That would have undoubtedly been the smarter move, yes. Stick him in Grand Rapids, let him him LTIRetire, all better than eating dead cap until 2026. It's not a "big" deal, it's just a thing that happened...

When they did that, the Wings had well over 25 mil in cap space, what would the measly bit of dead cap have been worth when you have lots???? It is barely a million dollars which would get you another ELC guy in the lineup.

 

[PredsV82]

I still find it amazing that Yzerman just walked away from what was about to be the Tampa dynasty

 

[Pavels Dog]

Copp alone?

Since 2022 offseason
Traded for and signed Ville Husso (1995) for 3 years
Signed Andrew Copp (1994) for 5 years
Signed Olli Maatta (1994) for 1 year, then extended for 2 more years
Signed Ben Chiarot (1991) for 4 years
Signed David Perron (1988) for 2 years
Signed Austin Czarnik (1992) for 2 years
Signed Jake Walman (1996) for 1 year, then extended for 3 more years (traded for 3/21/2022)
Extended Dylan Larkin (1996) for 8 years
Signed James Reimer (1988) for 1 year
Signed Justin Holl (1992) for 3 years
Signed Daniel Sprong (1997) for 1 year
Signed Alex Lyon (1992) for 2 years
Signed J.T. Compher (1995) for 5 years
Signed Shayne Gostisbehere (1993) for 1 year
Signed Christian Fischer (1997) for 1 year
Traded for and extended Alex DeBrincat (1997) for 4 years
Traded for Jeff Petry (1987) (signed for 2 more years at that point)
Signed Patrick Kane (1988) for 1 year

Not sure how that is anything but a conscious veteran infusion up and down the lineup over two off-seasons, that in the aggregate and replaced with different and more short-term focused signings to reach the cap floor could lead to much fewer points in the standings and better odds of landing a "blue chip" draft prospect.

This man mentioned Austin Czarnik as a relevant signing.

 

[JimmyApples]

Alex Debrincat now has 1 goal in his last 19 games. Only 15 goals in his last 70 games.

Officially on pace for worse goals and point totals than he had in Ottawa last year - a season he called himself lazy.

Wonder if Detroit would try and move on from his three remaining years at $7.875M AAV.

 

[Hedmonster Bolt]

I still find it amazing that Yzerman just walked away from what was about to be the Tampa dynasty

Tampa Bay will always love and respect SY for the roster he built( Al Murray also) but JBB finished it with his trade deadline and cap magic.

 

[Antiillafire]

Stevieeeeeee Y !!

 

[Curufinwe]

not today