When does the Yzerplan start getting criticized?

[lidstromiscool]

Which of Copp and/or Compher is centering this competent 2nd line?

Compher is a competent 2nd line center, hence me saying that we need a better 2nd line center to make the playoffs. A Compher level player is a pretty good expectation for Kasper/ Danielson actually. Copp at $5.6 mil for another 3 years is another doozy of a contract

 

[norrisnick]

Compher is a competent 2nd line center, hence me saying that we need a better 2nd line center to make the playoffs. A Compher level player is a pretty good expectation for Kasper/ Danielson actually. Copp at $5.6 mil for another 3 years is another doozy of a contract

Yeah, no. His not being a competent 2nd line center is a big part of the Wings' current situation. Ditto, Chiarot and Petry not being a competent 2nd pairing.

It's a top line, two 3rd lines and a 4th to go with a top pairing and two 3rd pairings. That in front of two backups is the Wings season in a nutshell.

 

[Henkka]

Detroit quite literally has a competent 2nd line and not even in a playoff spot. If Larkin is your 1C, you'll need a 2C who can put up 70 points.

Every second of latest SC winners will proof, how this is a false argument.

Vegas didn't have, COL had. TBL2 didn't have, TBL1 had. STL didn't have, Capitals had. Pens did have, Hawks didn't... and list goes on. Hawks did win 3 Cups with Andrew Copp -styled of Center on their 2nd line. That's the most Cups lately from one team.

If you have depth elsewhere on the roster or a strength like defence/goaltending, crying after 70p 2nd line center is just waste of time.

 

[nbwingsfan]

You absolutely need superstars to compete. The best player on Detroit right now would likely be the 4th or 5th best player on each Stanley Cup Champion since the last lockout.

Tell that to Colorado, or Las Vegas, or Boston, or Tampa, or Florida, or Toronto, or Carolina, or Edmonton. Plenty of teams have had successful rebuilds in the last 10 years. Lottery luck is certainly impactful but not required.

Who were the 4 players better than Larkin on the 2019 STL Blues or even last season with Vegas?

 

[Dotter]

Detroit is firmly in the purgatory of not being good enough to contend, but not bad enough to have lottery luck. Sure they might make the playoffs one of these years, but they aren't a contender

There it is....

Shame on Yzerman for not snapping his fingers to manifest MacKinnon or Bedard and have them magically appear.

Next option is go full Tonya Harding on Seider and Raymond knee caps, trade Larkin so Wings can learn how to lose better. Tank, tank, tank. Maybe, just maybe this time winning the lottery will happen this time.....! Just keep doing that for the next couple decades until you get your Bedard.

Promote a losing culture then you've effectively become Ottawa, Buffalo, Arizona. YEE-HAW!

Your way seems stupid. I'd prefer Yzerman's upward trajectory of doing what he's been doing to incrementally get this team better and better. It's working. You're just impatient and unlogical.

 

[Indrid Cold]

As far as drafting and bringing in talent via the draft, the Yzerplan has exceeded expectations (I think), especially considering he got biffed a few times in the draft lottery.

As far as trades, he has done pretty well, getting serviceable players for next to nothing.

FA's, have sucked, especially at D. Holl and Chiarot....

Overall, he's about where he should be, competing for a wild card spot.

 

[Bank Shot]

As far as drafting and bringing in talent via the draft, the Yzerplan has exceeded expectations (I think), especially considering he got biffed a few times in the draft lottery.

As far as trades, he has done pretty well, getting serviceable players for next to nothing.

FA's, have sucked, especially at D. Holl and Chiarot....

Overall, he's about where he should be, competing for a wild card spot.

That Debrincat move doesn't look so hot.

 

[saska sault]

That Debrincat move doesn't look so hot.

Debrincat has been as advertised. Extremely streaky. We didn't give up much for him so most fans don't lose their minds when he goes on the extended cold streaks, he's not perfect but far from the issue. Late 1st and Kubalik for a 60-65 point winger is a win, Detroit needs the talent even if he's flawed.

As far as drafting and bringing in talent via the draft, the Yzerplan has exceeded expectations (I think), especially considering he got biffed a few times in the draft lottery.

As far as trades, he has done pretty well, getting serviceable players for next to nothing.

FA's, have sucked, especially at D. Holl and Chiarot....

Overall, he's about where he should be, competing for a wild card spot.

Chiarot has been pretty good most of the year. Holl and Petry.. not so much.

 

[Ezekial]

Complaining about 23-24 Ben Chiarot comes from 3 places: ignorance, old hatred, and scraping the barrel for things to complain about.

 

[Bank Shot]

Debrincat has been as advertised. Extremely streaky. We didn't give up much for him so most fans don't lose their minds when he goes on the extended cold streaks, he's not perfect but far from the issue. Late 1st and Kubalik for a 60-65 point winger is a win, Detroit needs the talent even if he's flawed.



Chiarot has been pretty good most of the year. Holl and Petry.. not so much.

Debrincat is a cap issue at $8 million for mediocore offence and no defence. Wings overpaid for that.

Yzerman hasn't added any core players in inventive moves. I fail to see what the hype is about. He's been a very Hollandesque GM thus far. Just slow and safe.

 

[schuelma24]

Debrincat is a cap issue at $8 million for mediocore offence and no defence. Wings overpaid for that.

Yzerman hasn't added any core players in inventive moves. I fail to see what the hype is about. He's been a very Hollandesque GM thus far. Just slow and safe.

He's signed for 3 more years and while I'd agree he's underproducing this year goals wise, I don't think its nearly as significant of an issue as you believe. I'm much more upset with the Copp contract, frankly.

 

[BrokenFace]

If the Red Wings miss the playoffs this year and are not in a playoff position as of American Thanksgiving next season, then any goodwill Yzerman had from his success in Tampa Bay has to be exhausted.

 

[saska sault]

Debrincat is a cap issue at $8 million for mediocore offence and no defence. Wings overpaid for that.

Yzerman hasn't added any core players in inventive moves. I fail to see what the hype is about. He's been a very Hollandesque GM thus far. Just slow and safe.

The deal isn't even through year 1 of 4, I'm willing to see how it ages. If he stays where he's at, it's an overpayment.

The current roster leaves something to be desired and is in a weird state of being half full of veterans and half full or guys who may lose their spot to prospects shortly . There is alot more promise in the pipeline that it seems. Also cap flexibility and draft pick capital is a strong point going forward. Yzerman probably hasn't attempted much for going after big names yet. His timeline is likely different than what fans think.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Every second of latest SC winners will proof, how this is a false argument.

Vegas didn't have, COL had. TBL2 didn't have, TBL1 had. STL didn't have, Capitals had. Pens did have, Hawks didn't... and list goes on. Hawks did win 3 Cups with Andrew Copp -styled of Center on their 2nd line. That's the most Cups lately from one team.

If you have depth elsewhere on the roster or a strength like defence/goaltending, crying after 70p 2nd line center is just waste of time.

Agree that there isn't any list of "hard requirements" for a specific spot (#2C for example) for a team to win a Cup. I also think that currently the depth is at least as important as the stars on the team.

With that said - the team's you're talking about (LV, COL, TB, CHI, PITT, LA) all had incredible depth where they would get key contributions from the 2nd or 3rd tier of players on those teams. IMO - that's where DET has a chance to be a serious contender. They have to hit on a high percentage of guys in the pipeline, including some that no one talks about. Kind of a STL model where Seider is AP, and they come at you in waves.

While I hate the Red Wings, I always have respected SY, and expect they'll continue to make strides. Just hope the Compher/Copp contracts don't age as poorly as I fear they might. While the Chiarot/Holl contracts look bad, at least they're relatively short term.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Unless a team totally messes up a top-10 pick, they shouldn't be factored into how successful rebuilds are as much as other moves. If you're drafting top-10, you should be able to get atleast a mediocre player.

That said, Raymond, Seider, and Edvinsson all look like pieces, but what else has he done that has been that amazing? The best player Larkin was already around when he took over. The wings prospect pool has been praised for years now, but other top-20 picks (and Veleno), which players drafted have made the NHL/look like big time players?

The only reason they're even in the playoff hunt is the veteran forwards brought in like Kane, Compher, Copp, Perron...none of which should be expected to be around if/when the Wings become contenders anytime soon. Even if you expect Kasper/Danielsson to come in and replace some of them, and Edvinsson, and ASP to plug into the D core...I just don't see how that becomes a contending team.

 

[The Red Line]

That Debrincat move doesn't look so hot.

He's 1 point shy of the team lead in points.

 

[nbwingsfan]

That Debrincat move doesn't look so hot.

A 65pt playe, who’s 2nd on the team in scoring, for a late 1st and a cap dump.

We aren’t in the playoff race without Debrincat, even including his recent cold streak.

Debrincat is a cap issue at $8 million for mediocore offence and no defence. Wings overpaid for that.

Yzerman hasn't added any core players in inventive moves. I fail to see what the hype is about. He's been a very Hollandesque GM thus far. Just slow and safe.

Detroit has absolutely no cap issues

 

[nbwingsfan]

Unless a team totally messes up a top-10 pick, they shouldn't be factored into how successful rebuilds are as much as other moves. If you're drafting top-10, you should be able to get atleast a mediocre player.

That said, Raymond, Seider, and Edvinsson all look like pieces, but what else has he done that has been that amazing? The best player Larkin was already around when he took over. The wings prospect pool has been praised for years now, but other top-20 picks (and Veleno), which players drafted have made the NHL/look like big time players?

The only reason they're even in the playoff hunt is the veteran forwards brought in like Kane, Compher, Copp, Perron...none of which should be expected to be around if/when the Wings become contenders anytime soon. Even if you expect Kasper/Danielsson to come in and replace some of them, and Edvinsson, and ASP to plug into the D core...I just don't see how that becomes a contending team.

Perron, Compher and especially Copp are not good players. Copp is a run of the mill 4th line guy at this point. He’s had no barring whatsoever on them being in a playoff spot.

If Danielson, Kasper, Mazur, ASP and Edvisson don’t even up as good or better than players like Petry, Maatta, Copp and Perron then yes we’re in a big trouble, but that’s a very low bar you’ve set.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

If Danielson, Kasper, Mazur, ASP and Edvisson don’t even up as good or better than players like Petry, Maatta, Copp and Perron then yes we’re in a big trouble, but that’s a very low bar you’ve set.

I think they can all become players to different degrees. None are going to be offensive difference makers, but maybe DET can become a deep team in the mold of 2019 STL, or 2023 VGK. They're in a strong division with lots of firepower though, and alot of other young teams that they will fight for playoff spots with for a while.

 

[sxvnert]

Should have give up a few picks for Allen. He would have been the perfect bridge until Cossa/Augustine are ready.

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

Debrincat is a cap issue at $8 million for mediocore offence and no defence. Wings overpaid for that.

Yzerman hasn't added any core players in inventive moves. I fail to see what the hype is about. He's been a very Hollandesque GM thus far. Just slow and safe.

Here's a first, something we agree on.

Any other GM would be blasted for the results (or lack of) Yzerman is putting up since joining the Wings...and then giving the excuse that he needs a decade to form a half decent team, no other GM would be given that grace...pure nepotism.

 

[Dotter]

Here's a first, something we agree on.

Any other GM would be blasted for the results (or lack of) Yzerman is putting up since joining the Wings...and then giving the excuse that he needs a decade to form a half decent team, no other GM would be given that grace...pure nepotism.

Yzerman has moved this team up in the standings each and every season he's been here. With his first pick in 2019 and in 2020 he picked the best players available despite not winning the lottery. one could make the argument he drafted the 2nd best player in the 2019 draft @ #6. In 10 years from now we might be able to debate whether or not he was the best player drafted in 2019.

Yzerman has done a fantastic job in Detroit. You'll find a few mentally ill fair-weather fans who also probably throw fits in a drive through McDonald's line for taking too long also complain about Yzerman. But those are 'special' people who need 'special attention' and special needs.

This has been a fun season for DRWs fans. And we expected it to keep getting better.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I think they can all become players to different degrees. None are going to be offensive difference makers, but maybe DET can become a deep team in the mold of 2019 STL, or 2023 VGK. They're in a strong division with lots of firepower though, and alot of other young teams that they will fight for playoff spots with for a while.

ASP absolutely has the potential to be an offensive difference maker on the back end, but yeah I don’t have high hopes of any of the others being “star” players.

Do I think they have the potential to be vastly better players than current Perron, Compher, Copp (garbage) and Petry (worse than garbage)? Absolutely

Here's a first, something we agree on.

Any other GM would be blasted for the results (or lack of) Yzerman is putting up since joining the Wings...and then giving the excuse that he needs a decade to form a half decent team, no other GM would be given that grace...pure nepotism.

He’s improved the team incrementally every single season since he took over the worst roster and arguably worst prospect pool in the NHL in 2020

Should have give up a few picks for Allen. He would have been the perfect bridge until Cossa/Augustine are ready.

Lyon has better numbers than Allen?

 

[StreetHawk]

ASP absolutely has the potential to be an offensive difference maker on the back end, but yeah I don’t have high hopes of any of the others being “star” players.

Do I think they have the potential to be vastly better players than current Perron, Compher, Copp (garbage) and Petry (worse than garbage)? Absolutely


He’s improved the team incrementally every single season since he took over the worst roster and arguably worst prospect pool in the NHL in 2020


Lyon has better numbers than Allen?

Detroit probably does lack a high end forward, but to be bottom 3 in the NHL, you have to be really really bad. I mean, there is a good separation between 3rd worst Ana and 4th worst CBS this season. Greater gap between 3 to 4th than 4th to 5th worst.
Det was 20 points clear of the bottom 4 last season. (Danielsson pick)
Det was 11 points clear of the bottom 5 (3, 4, 5 were separated by 2 points) (Kasper pick)
Det was 3 points out of 3rd worst in the covid season (Evindsson pick).

That was the last time they were really that bad. Teams have to get better, especially when your "Future" begins playing in the NHL. Can't bring them into total chaos.

Yzerman had 2 extra 1sts and 7 extra 2nds since he took over GM duties for the draft in 2019 to now. He needed to nail those picks. If he and the scouts didn't, well, that will hurt. Did he overpay for some vets? Yes, but that's kind of how it goes when you have been a bad team trying to turn it around.

I'm sure some would have wanted Det to end up like Ana with their 4th out of 5 seasons bottom 5 finish in the NHL this season (and likely 3rd of the last 4 in the bottom 3). But, like I said, over the past 2 seasons Detroit was well clear of the very bottom of the standings.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Detroit probably does lack a high end forward, but to be bottom 3 in the NHL, you have to be really really bad. I mean, there is a good separation between 3rd worst Ana and 4th worst CBS this season. Greater gap between 3 to 4th than 4th to 5th worst.
Det was 20 points clear of the bottom 4 last season. (Danielsson pick)
Det was 11 points clear of the bottom 5 (3, 4, 5 were separated by 2 points) (Kasper pick)
Det was 3 points out of 3rd worst in the covid season (Evindsson pick).

That was the last time they were really that bad. Teams have to get better, especially when your "Future" begins playing in the NHL. Can't bring them into total chaos.

Yzerman had 2 extra 1sts and 7 extra 2nds since he took over GM duties for the draft in 2019 to now. He needed to nail those picks. If he and the scouts didn't, well, that will hurt. Did he overpay for some vets? Yes, but that's kind of how it goes when you have been a bad team trying to turn it around.

I'm sure some would have wanted Det to end up like Ana with their 4th out of 5 seasons bottom 5 finish in the NHL this season (and likely 3rd of the last 4 in the bottom 3). But, like I said, over the past 2 seasons Detroit was well clear of the very bottom of the standings.

Yeah without gutting the team and trading Larkin/benching Seider we didn’t have much of a hope for a bottom 3-4 team the last few years