When does the Yzerplan start getting criticized?

[Czechboy]

The prospects stuff reminds me a lot of me at times. During my Oils decade of dark was I was positive all the first rounders would pan out and a few second rounders too! Didn't happen. Yak busted. JP busted, Yamo busted, Benson didn't come close, Musil busted. MPS busted, Cogliano lasted but not a star, Eberle traded early, Klefbom retired early. Oilers were on a lot of top prospects rankings near or at the top.

Same with Czechs when I very wrongly assume that first rounders will become NHLers .. boy was I excited about Zboril, zadina, kaut and Vrana. Lol. Then you have Chytil.

A lot of chickens being counted before they hatch IMO.

And maybe all the Detroit guys pan out. Time will tell.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

I think Yzerman needs to be taking a look at some players who may be either slightly struggling, on a team with a cap crunch, or maybe worn out his welcome and make a bit of a “risky” move.

A player Boeser would have looked REAL good on the Wings right now if they took advantage of him being on the block last season for example.

Alex Debrincat v2.0?

 

[PaulD]

The prospects stuff reminds me a lot of me at times. During my Oils decade of dark was I was positive all the first rounders would pan out and a few second rounders too! Didn't happen. Yak busted. JP busted, Yamo busted, Benson didn't come close, Musil busted. MPS busted, Cogliano lasted but not a star, Eberle traded early, Klefbom retired early. Oilers were on a lot of top prospects rankings near or at the top.

Same with Czechs when I very wrongly assume that first rounders will become NHLers .. boy was I excited about Zboril, zadina, kaut and Vrana. Lol. Then you have Chytil.

A lot of chickens being counted before they hatch IMO.

And maybe all the Detroit guys pan out. Time will tell.

Join the club. The Canadiens lost under Bergevin for a decade while his apologists bragged of deep prospect pool.
All teams do it while losing. Hockey team politicking.
However I'm still confident Yzerman will build a great team in Detroit.

 

[cvaicunas]

Kasper is probably not a top 6 forward, that's actually pretty bad company to be in, he needs to greatly improve next season.

Edvinsson hasn't had any success doing either yet and he's already 21. He has more time, but not that much more time.

No one sees ASP as anything beyond a top 4 defenseman, he hasn't really proven he can be anything more yet either. I don't care if he scored more goals than assists. He had 6 points in 7 games and looked worse in the medal rounds.

I don't particularly care if Cossa had a good stretch of games following a bad stretch of games.

I believe ASP was playing those games with a shoulder injury. I gotta be honest, it seems your irrationally forming your opinions through stat watching.

So if a prospect has a bad streak of games, you immediately dismiss their potential, the guy has a 2.51 GAA and a .912 save percentage, but let's ignore that a focus on a bad stretch of games, while ignoring any context. Meanwhile this occurred earlier in the season, while adjusting to a new league, playing on a team filled with young prospects learning to play under a new head coach. Express your opinions by all means, but everything you've posted in this thread has been objectively bad.

 

[Crunchy]

If I’m a Wings fan, I’d be very disappointed about likely missing the playoffs this year

And how should they feel if they make the playoffs? Asking for a friend.

 

[PaulD]

And how should they feel if they make the playoffs? Asking for a friend.

Should feel great.
4 spots in Atlantic are a lock before season starts .
Rangers and Canes a lock in the Metro.
That leaves 2 spots available with 10 teams applying.
Wings right in there. I'm betting they make it.

 

[Czechboy]

Join the club. The Canadiens lost under Bergevin for a decade while his apologists bragged of deep prospect pool.
All teams do it while losing. Hockey team politicking.
However I'm still confident Yzerman will build a great team in Detroit.

I assume a Sabres fan might feel the same way too.. call it a hunch.lol

 

[LemonSauceD]

This is going to be a yearly thing.

 

[PaulD]

I assume a Sabres fan might feel the same way too.. call it a hunch.lol

True.
But I Wings fans have faith in Yzerman and I don't blame them.
I can't even remember who the Sabres GM is , if I ever did know. ha!

 

[GMR]

Should feel great.
4 spots in Atlantic are a lock before season starts .
Rangers and Canes a lock in the Metro.
That leaves 2 spots available with 10 teams applying.
Wings right in there. I'm betting they make it.

It will be the same next year also. The top spots you mentioned are locked up for the near future.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Alex Debrincat v2.0?

Debrincat hasn’t been quite as good as advertised and has had some struggles recently, but he’s still tied for 2nd in team scoring and pacing for ~65pts. We wouldn’t be where we are now without his play at the start of the season.

I take that trade 10/10 times

 

[lawrence]

he lucked out with an impressive scouting staff in Tampa. First off he's lucky as shit to take over the Tampa bay team that had 2 important components for a rebuid, which is Steve Stamkos (Centre) and Hedman (Dman) and the rest kinda fell into to place with some l uck.

good luck with that in Detroit.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

it’s impossible to speak reason and nuance to sports fans in Michigan.

Source: lived here for over a decade.

 

[lidstromiscool]

Definitely fair to start criticizing. A lot of bad FA contracts and questionable draft choices.

 

[Dotter]

If I’m a Wings fan, I’d be very disappointed about likely missing the playoffs this year

Disappointed? Sure. Devastated? Nope.

Everyone knew going in it wasn't their year in the sense of 'contending' . They're a bubble team on the rise. Playing competitive hockey right now is part of the process at building a winning culture.

It's been delightful witnessing the upswing and watching their exciting prospects flourish. Gotta learn to walk before run.

 

[lidstromiscool]

Disappointed? Sure. Devastated? Nope.

Everyone knew going in it wasn't their year in the sense of 'contending' . They're a bubble team on the rise. Playing competitive hockey right now is part of the process at building a winning culture.

It's been delightful witnessing the upswing and watching their exciting prospects flourish. Gotta learn to walk before run.

How do you see them make the transition from bubble team to contending?

 

[Dotter]

How do you see them make the transition from bubble team to contending?

Injecting youth. Continue with good drafting. Smart trades. Wings need to hit on a few kids like Cossa and Danielsson and maybe even ASP.

Out with the old, in with the new.

 

[lidstromiscool]

Injecting youth. Continue with good drafting. Smart trades. Wings need to hit on a few kids like Cossa and Danielsson and maybe even ASP.

Out with the old, in with the new.

I agree, but the rebuild counting on Cossa and Danielsson to be difference makers is a pretty big leap. How old will Larkin be when/if those players are ready? There's a lot of depth pieces in the prospect pool but outside of Edvinsson, nobody projects as a 1st line player or top pair D. This core is still quite a ways off from making the playoffs consistently, not to mention being a contender.

 

[norrisnick]

I agree, but the rebuild counting on Cossa and Danielsson to be difference makers is a pretty big leap. How old will Larkin be when/if those players are ready? There's a lot of depth pieces in the prospect pool but outside of Edvinsson, nobody projects as a 1st line player or top pair D. This core is still quite a ways off from making the playoffs consistently, not to mention being a contender.

Well, good thing that Augustine and Kasper (among others) are also in the pipeline. So things don't hinge solely on those two sets of shoulders. The trick with what the Wings are currently missing, is that it isn't the top line or top pairing. It's the 2nd line and 2nd pairing (contrary to what recent UFA signings would lead you to believe). That's a bit easier to manage. Unless you're one of those ultra discriminating sorts that don't consider Larkin, Raymond, Debrincat top line material. Or some combination of Seider, Walman, very soon Edvinsson as not being top pairing material.

Larkin is turning 28 this summer. He'll be young enough to still play well and contribute the next little while.

 

[Dotter]

I agree, but the rebuild counting on Cossa and Danielsson to be difference makers is a pretty big leap. How old will Larkin be when/if those players are ready? There's a lot of depth pieces in the prospect pool but outside of Edvinsson, nobody projects as a 1st line player or top pair D. This core is still quite a ways off from making the playoffs consistently, not to mention being a contender.

"like" Interchange with Augustine and ASP then. What the team is today isn't what it's going to be in 3 years from now. Nobody can see out that far. The key is to keep moving in the right direction and hitting on prospects (i.e., Seider and Raymond).
Do people think Yzerman can just snap his fingers and 'POOF!' appears your McKinnon or Bedard? Wings aren't going to be a superstar team. But you don't need a superstar team to compete? They just aren't going to compete perennially like the late 90s DRWs. Those days are over.

Look at DRWs past 5 years since Yzerman has been here. They're moving up each season despite getting cheated on the lottery. The club is incrementally getting better and better. That's progress in the right direction.

 

[lidstromiscool]

Well, good thing that Augustine and Kasper (among others) are also in the pipeline. So things don't hinge solely on those two sets of shoulders. The trick with what the Wings are currently missing, is that it isn't the top line or top pairing. It's the 2nd line and 2nd pairing (contrary to what recent UFA signings would lead you to believe). That's a bit easier to manage. Unless you're one of those ultra discriminating sorts that don't consider Larkin, Raymond, Debrincat top line material. Or some combination of Seider, Walman, very soon Edvinsson as not being top pairing material.

Larkin is turning 28 this summer. He'll be young enough to still play well and contribute the next little while.

The Red Wings absolutely need 1st line forwards and 1st pairing defensemen. I think Larkin is a 1C but it's been proven that Larkin as a 1C needs a ton of help if Detroit is to make the playoffs, let alone contend. Heck, they likely won't even make the playoffs this year after adding a point per game winger in Kane. A high end winger to replace Kane and a high end 2nd line center, at minimum, are needed if this team wants to challenge for the playoffs, and neither of those are prospects Detroit currently has.

Defense is a little better as Seider is a legit 1D, Walman is a #4, hopefully Edvinsson can be a top pair D but even that isn't a lock. ASP is promising but by the time he's in the NHL, Larkin will be 32. Johansson and Wallinder both look like bottom pair D if they ever make it to the NHL, every other d prospect is years away.

Goaltending is a huge question mark. Cossa seems to be getting better, Augustine had a promising year, but smaller NCAA goalies are a crapshoot.

Add to all this that Detroit has the 6th oldest roster in the league, it's not like this is a young team thats improving. It's a veteran roster where the younger players are going to be filling holes, not creating more depth.

 

[lidstromiscool]

Wings aren't going to be a superstar team. But you don't need a superstar team to compete?

You absolutely need superstars to compete. The best player on Detroit right now would likely be the 4th or 5th best player on each Stanley Cup Champion since the last lockout.

They just aren't going to compete perennially like the late 90s DRWs. Those days are over.

Tell that to Colorado, or Las Vegas, or Boston, or Tampa, or Florida, or Toronto, or Carolina, or Edmonton. Plenty of teams have had successful rebuilds in the last 10 years. Lottery luck is certainly impactful but not required.

 

[norrisnick]

The Red Wings absolutely need 1st line forwards and 1st pairing defensemen. I think Larkin is a 1C but it's been proven that Larkin as a 1C needs a ton of help if Detroit is to make the playoffs, let alone contend. Heck, they likely won't even make the playoffs this year after adding a point per game winger in Kane. A high end winger to replace Kane and a high end 2nd line center, at minimum, are needed if this team wants to challenge for the playoffs, and neither of those are prospects Detroit currently has.

Defense is a little better as Seider is a legit 1D, Walman is a #4, hopefully Edvinsson can be a top pair D but even that isn't a lock. ASP is promising but by the time he's in the NHL, Larkin will be 32. Johansson and Wallinder both look like bottom pair D if they ever make it to the NHL, every other d prospect is years away.

Goaltending is a huge question mark. Cossa seems to be getting better, Augustine had a promising year, but smaller NCAA goalies are a crapshoot.

Add to all this that Detroit has the 6th oldest roster in the league, it's not like this is a young team thats improving. It's a veteran roster where the younger players are going to be filling holes, not creating more depth.

You are quite literally describing a competent 2nd line as I stated. And if you don't see any 2nd liners in the Wings' prospect pool you might want to apply to some scouting services as they seem to disagree with your assessment.

The age of the current team is irrelevant as the old players are not intended to be around when the next wave arrives and the contention window opens. Quite literal placeholders. But placeholders that keep the few young players from getting completely caved in night after night like the team has been the 4 season prior to the last two.

 

[lidstromiscool]

You are quite literally describing a competent 2nd line as I stated. And if you don't see any 2nd liners in the Wings' prospect pool you might want to apply to some scouting services as they seem to disagree with your assessment.

The age of the current team is irrelevant as the old players are not intended to be around when the next wave arrives and the contention window opens. Quite literal placeholders. But placeholders that keep the few young players from getting completely caved in night after night like the team has been the 4 season prior to the last two.

Detroit quite literally has a competent 2nd line and not even in a playoff spot. If Larkin is your 1C, you'll need a 2C who can put up 70 points. Which forward prospects do you think will score over 60 points a year while Larkin is in his prime? Kasper? Danielson? Mazur? None of these guys drive offense enough to do it. There's a 4 year window right now with Larkin still in his prime. What about after Larkin's prime? Add first line center to the list of needs.

Detroit is firmly in the purgatory of not being good enough to contend, but not bad enough to have lottery luck. Sure they might make the playoffs one of these years, but they aren't a contender

 

[norrisnick]

Detroit quite literally has a competent 2nd line and not even in a playoff spot. If Larkin is your 1C, you'll need a 2C who can put up 70 points. Which forward prospects do you think will score over 60 points a year while Larkin is in his prime? Kasper? Danielson? Mazur? None of these guys drive offense enough to do it. There's a 4 year window right now with Larkin still in his prime. What about after Larkin's prime? Add first line center to the list of needs.

Detroit is firmly in the purgatory of not being good enough to contend, but not bad enough to have lottery luck. Sure they might make the playoffs one of these years, but they aren't a contender

Which of Copp and/or Compher is centering this competent 2nd line?