When does the Yzerplan start getting criticized?

[Crunchy]

Amazing how short-sighted it is to talk shit about a team of primarily free agency signings while the majority of the team's future are 18-21 years old and playing in lower leagues.

Non-Detroit fans are triggered, mad that the hometown fans aren't melting down.

You'll be really triggered when he starts winning.

 

[OurlordAndSaviorKuch]

And neither as much as those young players acquired via the "weaponizing"...


Handy that the Wings have two top 10 goalie prospect atm.

Prospects are well and good but if they don’t pan out you are in the same spot.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

its like talking to a brick wall

Yzerman started in tampa in 2010 left in 2019. They won a cup in 2020. But whatever enjoy your yappin

Oddest concession I’ve ever seen on here, but cheerio, mate.

 

[Crunchy]

The amount of people on here making excuses for him is staggering, frankly.

"Oh but look at what he inherited!"

Okay, and?

What's staggering is your ability to repeat the same things page after page, while you ignore any attempt at rational discussion.

 

[norrisnick]

Prospects are well and good but if they don’t pan out you are in the same spot.

Same as half the league that doesn't have quality goaltending.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

Hmm...Wings around wild card spot. Larkin gets injured. Larkin comes back. Wings around wild card spot. Looks like the monumental collapse was avoided. But I wouldn't call those players brought in talented vets...more like depth

Monumental collapse avoided? What would you call seven straight regulation losses (included being emasculated by the lottery Arizona Coyotes twice within a week as well as completely no-showing against the Sabres and Pens along with a near-disaster against Columbus that took a miracle to avoid) and seeing what was a comfortable 9 point cushion and talks of even catching the Leafs for 3rd in the division completely disappear and now trailing by 2 points in the Wild Card chase?

Because 30 days ago, the Red Wings were within striking distance of the Leafs for 3rd in the division and fans were talking about buying playoff tickets for the first time since 2016 and the potential of them pulling an upset like the Panthers did last year.

 

[pabst blue ribbon]

A lot of Yzerman's success in Tampa can be attributed to the fact that they hit a couple of home run picks outside the 1st round. Drafting guys like Point, Kucherov and even Cirelli outside the 1st would give any franchise a huge competitive advantage. Even if you look at non-Yzerman GM years they had non first round picks like Palat and Killorn be important pieces for them.

Looking at Detroit's draft history between 2019 and 2020, I don't think that anyone of the non first round picks even have the ceiling of a Killorn or a Palat, let alone the Kucherov's or the Point's of this world. It might be too early to write off the more recent drafts but I do think that something that Yzerman got way too much credit for was the Lightning's ability to draft really good players outside the 1st round for a short period of time.


I don't think that the 'Yzerplan' is a failure or that Yzerman is a bad GM because of this, but I do think that GM's get way too much credit/blame for drafting outside the 1st round. Considering that much of Yzerman's reputation is owed to the picks of Kucherov and Point in the first place should maybe have us question how much of his reputation was 'earned' in the first place.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

What's staggering is your ability to repeat the same things page after page, while you ignore any attempt at rational discussion.

There is no rational discussion to be had when you clearly have no standard of success you’d like to see be met and seemingly are willing to give Yzerman unlimited time to start producing meaningful results.

Sorry, but we’re talking about the Red Wings, not the Wild or Senators where there is no historical standard of success.

 

[norrisnick]

There is no rational discussion to be had when you clearly have no standard of success you’d like to see be met and seemingly are willing to give Yzerman unlimited time to start producing meaningful results.

Sorry, but we’re talking about the Red Wings, not the Wild or Senators where there is no historical standard of success.

There is no rational discussion to be had if you don't agree with me.

 

[Crunchy]

There is no rational discussion to be had when you clearly have no standard of success you’d like to see be met and seemingly are willing to give Yzerman unlimited time to start producing meaningful results.

Sorry, but we’re talking about the Red Wings, not the Wild or Senators where there is no historical standard of success.

Lol my standard of success isn't predicated on making the playoffs as an 8 seed.

 

[dirtydanglez]

if the wings miss, yzerman will have the red wings longest playoff drought in franchise history on his hands at 8 consecutive years. i dont think his job is on the line but the pressure will start to grow exponentially if the wings dont make it.

 

[dragonballgtz]

I think Yzerman starts to feel some heat next year if they dont make the playoffs. He has stated he's building around Larkin's age group which is in their prime now and for the next few years.

If we remain a bubble team all we are doing is hurting our chances come draft time to land top end talent. Wings desperately need one of Kasper or Danielson to become top end elite talent. We also need Mo to take that next step sooner rather than later... along with ASP and Edvinsson replacing Petry & Chiarot out of the top four.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

There is no rational discussion to be had if you don't agree with me.

Feel free to counter any of my points with actual analysis other than “but but Stevie said it was going to take time!!” as an excuse for why zero meaningful progress has been made by the end of year 5.

Lol my standard of success isn't predicated on making the playoffs as an 8 seed.

Splendid. Neither is mine. Sounds like you agree that the fact that Detroit has collapsed in the last month is a monumental failure, and the fact that Detroit is on the cusp of missing the playoffs for the 5th straight year under Yzerman ain’t cutting it.

We’re not having this discussion if Detroit didn’t utterly implode the last month (along with a terrible month of December). But they did, and this is Yzerman’s team and coaching staff.

 

[Crunchy]

Splendid. Neither is mine. Sounds like you agree that the fact that Detroit has collapsed in the last month is a monumental failure, and the fact that Detroit is on the cusp of missing the playoffs for the 5th straight year under Yzerman ain’t cutting it.

We’re not having this discussion if Detroit didn’t utterly implode the last month (along with a terrible month of December). But they did, and this is Yzerman’s team and coaching staff.

Does it actually sound like I agree Hockeyfan2390?

 

[PettersonHughes]

Handy that the Wings have two top 10 goalie prospect atm.

That's like saying you're a millionaire when you have two lottery tickets you're sure will hit.

 

[TheSmokingMan]

I don't have a horse in this race, but I do have a question for those here who are critical of Yzerman. What moves would you have done differently? What future moves do you think should be done to right the ship?

When giving your answers, please be mindful of hindsight bias.

 

[GrkFlyersFan]

Husso's been out since December and wasn't playing that well, and they've been relying on a career minor leaguer and an old Reimer since then. I think that's the thing keeping them out

 

[Pavels Dog]

They have the second highest 5v5 shooting % in the league. They are lucky to be where they are in the standings.

One of the worst possession teams in the NHL.

From 2019 to 2023 they had the 2nd worst 5v5 sh% in the league. So you would agree that they were unlucky to be where they were in the standings those years?

*awaits goalposts being moved*

Would you be allowed to be approaching six years in your profession before you start producing meaningful results?

Of course not. I sure wouldn't. Why do these sports executives get unlimited runway?

There’s not a single area of the Red Wings organization that isn’t better off now than it was 5 years ago. Your arbitrary performance targets are meaningless.

 

[Pavels Dog]

They don’t look like contenders right now and I don’t see what’s going to make them contenders moving forward. They don’t have a single true franchise F, they’ve spent lot of assets on other players so finding and/drafting one will be a massive challenge as well. They’ve been building a very limited looking team.
But atleast that’s good news for every other Eastern team

I don’t really get the point of talking ”contenders”. That often gets brought into these discussions as a way to make the current bar for success seem higher than it is. We hoped for meaningful late season games this season. Contention? In a perfect world that can happen in a few years. But yes, that requires things to develop right. And might need to be Franchise D and Franchise G that gets relied upon more, with a ”good enough” forward group.

 

[nbwingsfan]

But at least Shanahan has made the playoffs. It only took him 3 or 4 years to do so. As much flack as the Leafs get...atleast they're getting there every year.

If Detroit somehow gets a Matthews level talent 1st overall you may have a point

 

[nbwingsfan]

"This is going to take time". Sure. And Five years is more than enough time to have your team back in the playoffs. That should be the absolute lowest of expectations by the end of Year 5.

Ok youre Yzerman taking over for the Wings.

Your best assets are:
Larkin
Bertuzzi
Mantha
Hronek
Athanasiou???

Your best prospects are Veleno Zadina and??? Lidstrom maybe??

You’re drafting 6th overall.
How are you making them clearl contenders today?

 

[wunderpanda]

Amazing how short-sighted it is to talk shit about a team of primarily free agency signings while the majority of the team's future are 18-21 years old and playing in lower leagues.

Non-Detroit fans are triggered, mad that the hometown fans aren't melting down.

You'll be really triggered when he starts winning.

steve started in april 2019, its almost april 2024, five years later. his first group of 18-21 year olds are now 23-26 year olds and nearing arbitration or ufa status. he inherited the lighting team that lost in the finals and was replaced before tampa actually won.

 

[SantosHalper]

And Five years is more than enough time to have your team back in the playoffs.

Detroit were tanking up to 2022. This season is the 2nd season that Wings are trying to get in playoffs, not 5th.

And you seem to have extremely unrealistic expectations. The roster full of 19-21 year old players and be a playoff team at the same time? This is not a video game.

 

[Dr Quincy]

From 2019 to 2023 they had the 2nd worst 5v5 sh% in the league. So you would agree that they were unlucky to be where they were in the standings those years?

*awaits goalposts being moved*


There’s not a single area of the Red Wings organization that isn’t better off now than it was 5 years ago. Your arbitrary performance targets are meaningless.

TDIL that wins for an athletic team is an arbitrary performance target.

 

[Pavels Dog]

TDIL that wins for an athletic team is an arbitrary performance target.

But they are winning more, far more in fact, than when he started. The stated target among most fans, media, coaches etc. was to play meaningful games this time of year, which they are.
So it seems a few of you just have your own number in mind (a number you refuse to state and DEFINITELY did not expect going into the season).