What Would You Do With This Team Over the Offseason?

[ORRFForever]

1) I trade Marner for something/anything. One blue chip prospect out of Dallas, who have a wealth of young players.

2) I trade Robertson - part of the Marner to Dallas trade. Let him play with his brother. Between Marner and Robertson, maybe you get a 2nd blue chipper.

3) I wait out JT's contract and offer him $4M/yr for 3 years - if he wants to re-sign. Not a penny more.

4) I keep Domi, Knies and Bertuzzi.

5) I bring up Chadwick, Cowan, Minten, and McMann.

6) I use the money I saved on Marner and JT on D-Men.

7) I hire a hard ass coach.

8) I push Matthews - try and toughen him up.

9) I keep my eyes open for a Tkachuk type player.

10) Pray.

 

[ITM]

Fun exercise. Well...

First things first: Fire Keefe.
Thank Brodie, Giordano, Samsonov for their time here.
Hire Joel Quenneville - he's won Cups. And we need experience.
I'd reach out to 90-year-old Scotty Bowman to determine availability and hire him on as an advisor.
I'd do the same thing with his (and Shanahan's) buddy: Barry Smith.

Strip Tavares of the C - Press conference giving the C to Matthews and introducing Nylander and Knies as two As. The private message will match the public message.

Re-sign Domi until 26-27 at $4.25M.
Trade Nick Robertson to Dallas for Nils Lundqvist (RD) and a 2024 5th
Re-sign Bert until 26-27 at $4.25M
Trade Timothy Liljegren for Pittsburgh's 2024 2nd and 2025 4th
Re-sign Boosh and Edmundson to the deal Boosh just came off of, if possible.
Trade Noah Gregor wherever for a 6th/7th in 2025

Sign Tony DeAngelo to a two year deal at $1.675M per.
Sign Laurent Brossoit to a two year deal at @2.00M per. (Because I think Stolarz is going to be priced out of our budget.)

Once I've got those smaller, more controllable moves done, I'd begin to kick tires on targets that match our needs in the event Tavares and Marner can be moved.

If it's Marner as an example, I'm contacting Seattle and targeting Vince Dunn. (-4M)

And there's a number of other scenarios I've played out that I think in each instance we come away with less salary, more term, replenish picks (in a truly secondary consideration) and begin to rebuild while we retool and with it, latitude to spend (with discretion).

And we get tougher, every time, Fill what few gaps aren't filled from within through promotion and with the surplus.

 

[Jozay]

Move them to Hamilton, then bring in an expansion team to Toronto

 

[WillNy29]

1) I trade Marner for something/anything. One blue chip prospect out of Dallas, who have a wealth of young players.

2) I trade Robertson - part of the Marner to Dallas trade. Let him play with his brother. Between Marner and Robertson, maybe you get a 2nd blue chipper.

3) I wait out JT's contract and offer him $4M/yr for 3 years - if he wants to re-sign. Not a penny more.

4) I keep Domi, Knies and Bertuzzi.

5) I bring up Chadwick, Cowan, Minten, and McMann.

6) I use the money I saved on Marner and JT on D-Men.

7) I hire a hard ass coach.

8) I push Matthews - try and toughen him up.

9) I keep my eyes open for a Tkachuk type player.

10) Pray.

you mean one who has 48 points in 52 career playoff games and had 15 points in 27 playoff games before moping and quitting on his team to get traded? sounds like it should be relatively simple to do

 

[myleafs]

run it back, with a different coaching staff. re-sign anyone that they can (no overpayments), obviously there are players that you might want to move on from (ie: samsonov). if shit fails again, tavares and marner are off the books by then. thats a ton of money. figure it out then. realistically, doesnt make much sense for either marner or tavares to waive there nmc so we are stuck with them.

I threw up in my mouth a little

 

[ORRFForever]

you mean one who has 48 points in 52 career playoff games and had 15 points in 27 playoff games before moping and quitting on his team to get traded? sounds like it should be relatively simple to do

I mean someone who is tough as nails and willing to go to Hell and back to win.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Good to see you back in here, always wondered what happened to you in this board, Saw you in the main boards alot.

thanks i've been really ill the last few years. so i am only really here during this time of year just to say hi to some people and try to have some nice discussions. sometime that doesn't go so well lol)

 

[WillNy29]

I mean someone who is tough as nails and willing to go to Hell and back to win.

why didnt he do that in calgary then instead of being a dud and quitting on his team? doesnt sound like someone willing to go to hell and back to win to me

 

[ORRFForever]

why didnt he do that in calgary then instead of being a dud and quitting on his team? doesnt sound like someone willing to go to hell and back to win to me

I saw the difference M.T. made in Florida. If we could find someone like that for Toronto, that would go a long way.

I don't want to argue about the Tkachuk's any more - I was just using them as an example.

 

[WilliamInLondon]

These are my recommendations based on some set assumptions that I am making - which hamstring my "ideal" outcome with my proposed "best desired outcome given the reality of the situation".

Assumptions:

• Tavares, Marner, and Rielly do not lift their NMC in spite of being asked by Treliving. For better or worse, this is the unfortunate reality - and we accept that the players exercise the rights that were granted to them
• Shanahan is not fired but has at least one year left in his current contract
• The Leafs do not have any cap extenuating circumstances that provide immediate relief or hindrance to their current scenario (e.g. LTIR, Robidas Island, etc.)

Strategy:

• This is far, far from my desired outcome but one that hopefully uses next season as a bridge year to set up for higher probability of success from 2025-2026 and beyond.

1) Maximise cap flexibility by minimising commitments​

2) Drive organisational and cultural change​

3) Appraise internal assets and promote Internal Growth​

Offseason Moves:

I. Fire Keefe and hire Berube, Sutter, or Julien. Someone who is a proven winner and can drive accountability. Sign this person to a three-year deal. I'm less concerned with the exact impact that the coach can incrementally have on the outcome. I do not think Keefe was a terrible coach, but each one of the other three coaches is more experienced, able to coach in the playoffs, and seemingly more adaptable to in-game tactics (which Keefe has cost this team a few times). More importantly, it sets the obvious tone that a significant change has occurred.​

​

II. Coinciding with I, I strip Tavares of the captaincy. These outcomes aren't entirely his fault, but as someone who worked as a senior manager in corporations in the past (and advises them now), the visible leader is accountable for outcomes even if he/she is not directly the sole agent in ensuring successful outcomes. It has been six years, so there has to be acknowledgement of a failure to deliver.​

• If Tavares is understanding of this basic fact and acts rationally, great. If he chooses to lift his NMC, then realistically, I would see what's out there. I doubt cap-floor teams would offer more than mid-round prospects or picks, in which case I would hang onto Tavares for 2024-2025 as long as he remains a positive clubhouse influence. The Leafs definitely won't contend in 2024-2025 but are probably playoff-bound - this experience and Tavares' contributions to the team will help the youths
• I would then make the following appointments (but ultimately trust the coach's input): Nylander (C), Rielly (A), Matthews (A). Honestly, the safer play is Rielly, but fortune favours the bold. He doesn't play a complete game, but he's the only player who legitimately has the mindset and the character to win - so I give the captaincy to Nylander. The other two As are obvious as they're here for the long haul.
  • This also sends a clear message to Marner that he's only here for the year and not part of the future. If he waives his NMC (I highly doubt he'd do this going into a UFA year), I would see what's out there in terms of material assets. Unlike Tavares, Marner would get a haul and I would pull the trigger, even if the Leafs miss the playoffs next season because of it.

III. UFAs. I would not commit to any player above 4 seasons, which then ensures minimal commitment in case Matthews leaves as a UFA and a full rebuild is needed (upon which Nylander and Rielly might waive their NMC). These are the following signings that I would make:​

• Domi - $4.5M x 4 = $18M
• Pesce - $5.5M x 4 = $22M
• Lyubushkin - $1.0M x 2 = $2M
• Raanta - $1.75M x 1 = $1.75M

This leaves around $3M left in cap space for mid-season acquisitions in the event that the Leafs overperform next season heading into the trade deadline. If any of these players do not agree to the terms above, I'd try to find an equivalent in the UFA pool or fill in organically with youths and buy at the trade-deadline if the team overperforms.​

​

IV. Investment in Youth. I would use the year to evaluate the existing young talent and farm system to make personnel changes gearing up for the 2025-2026 season once Marner and Tavares come off the book. Re-sign all RFAs at no more than a 10% premium on 2-year bridge deals or go to 1-year arbitration. My proposed roster for next season:​

​

Forwards​

Knies Matthews Marner​

Robertson Domi Nylander​

Hirvonen/Holmberg Tavares McMann​

Dewar Minten/Holmberg Steeves​

​

Defence​

Rielly Pesce​

McCabe Liljegren​

Benoit Lyubushkin​

​

Goaltenders​

Woll​

Raanta​

Hildeby​

​

​

Does this team contend for the cup? Lol - not even close. But there's more than enough firepower on the team to make the wild card, especially if the coaching and new captaincy/culture can squeeze out some regular season victories.* But it gives the youths the opportunity to get more seasoned experience under their belt to retool and really go for it from 2025-2026 and beyond once Tavares and Marner come off the books.

* - You also never know. In the playoffs, anything can happen - and we truly don't know the negative impact that the coaching and culture/leadership was having in holding back this team this season. We also don't know how "good" Woll truly is especially if he can use this summer to get healthy and build for a full regular season. So a lot of unknowns, but I'd use 2024-2025 as a bridge and developmental year with a puncher's chance at competing in the playoffs.

 

[Trapper]

Due to the constant failures in round 1 of the playoffs it’s time to start changing the core.
Retool and observe.

Start with Marner. No need to get into a 13 million dollar argument over next contract. Time to move. Time to change the last thing on this team that hasn’t been changed. Most teams don’t get this much playoff failure without something significant.

Get a new core member or several pieces to add to the staying core.

Bigger roles for Knies/Robertson/etc.
Create a better tandem goaltending with Woll.

Then see how the retool goes over the life of Matthews next contract and evaluate again.

Other teams like Tampa/Colorado have had to retool like this. They were up, stalled, retooled, fell and then found their mark.

That’s enough of running it back for me. Enough of the same. If we are going lose, then let’s have a different look.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

We're very handicapped until next summer due to Tavares and his contract and his No Movement Clause.

Use this summer to bring in one or two top 4 right handed defensemen. We need guys who can play actual defense, penalty kill, and as a bonus, be physical. We can settle for a guy who isn't physical, but physical would be nice.

We only really have the cap and flexibility to worry about that I think. We can sign one top 6 forward, and I like Max Domi because he can play center if necessary and might be willing to take a lower cap hit if we give him 3 or 4 years. Any huge trade at forward would probably have to wait until next year (unless you're trading Marner out).

Goaltending, due to the Tavares situation AND where we're at with Woll... I think you need to sign a guy to a 1 year deal who is cheap on the cap, but good enough to possibly challenge Woll for playing time. We need to give Woll a REAL chance at this point, and we don't have the money or flexibility to bring in a "big" goalie until next summer anyways.

The specific people I have in mind for July 1st free agency are Brett Pesce (4+ years) and Alex Nedeljkovic (1 year only). I also like the idea of trading Marner for a high quality right handed defenseman, but making that actually work seems really hard.

I had an idea involving sending Marner and Liljegren to NYR for Trouba and Kakko. If you make that work, adding Trouba AND Pesce on the right side on D is a massive re-shaping of our D core. Addressing our biggest team need in a summer where we don't have a lot of flexibility. Sounds like a win to me. Sign Domi, Nedeljkovic, Pesce, a cheap bottom pairing D on a one year deal. Extend the RFAs... Robertson, Dewar, Liljegren/Kakko, maybe Gregor maybe not depending on the cap hit.

If you bring in Pesce or Trouba but you can't manage to bring in both, I'm open to extending Lybushkin for 1 or 2 years instead of signing a cheap bottom pairing D. He wouldn't have a high cap hit, would be a stop gap, and has shown he can play with Rielly. If you have Pesce AND Trouba, then you don't have to worry about finding a guy to play with Rielly anymore at all.

 

[WilliamInLondon]

We're very handicapped until next summer due to Tavares and his contract and his No Movement Clause.

Use this summer to bring in one or two top 4 right handed defensemen. We need guys who can play actual defense, penalty kill, and as a bonus, be physical. We can settle for a guy who isn't physical, but physical would be nice.

We only really have the cap and flexibility to worry about that I think. We can sign one top 6 forward, and I like Max Domi because he can play center if necessary and might be willing to take a lower cap hit if we give him 3 or 4 years. Any huge trade at forward would probably have to wait until next year (unless you're trading Marner out).

Goaltending, due to the Tavares situation AND where we're at with Woll... I think you need to sign a guy to a 1 year deal who is cheap on the cap, but good enough to possibly challenge Woll for playing time. We need to give Woll a REAL chance at this point, and we don't have the money or flexibility to bring in a "big" goalie until next summer anyways.

The specific people I have in mind for July 1st free agency are Brett Pesce (4+ years) and Alex Nedeljkovic (1 year only). I also like the idea of trading Marner for a high quality right handed defenseman, but making that actually work seems really hard.

I had an idea involving sending Marner and Liljegren to NYR for Trouba and Kakko. If you make that work, adding Trouba AND Pesce on the right side on D is a massive re-shaping of our D core. Addressing our biggest team need in a summer where we don't have a lot of flexibility. Sounds like a win to me. Sign Domi, Nedeljkovic, Pesce, a cheap bottom pairing D on a one year deal. Extend the RFAs... Robertson, Dewar, Liljegren/Kakko, maybe Gregor maybe not depending on the cap hit.

This is really close to my line of thinking. It's not the desired outcome, but the best possible outcome given existing constraints.

EDIT: Just pointing out the trade idea won't work with NYR - I'm 99% sure that Trouba, with his NMC, will not return to Canada. His wife is a practicing medical professional who I think works out of the New York hospitals. At the very least, mobility would be restricted to the US - this is why he left Winnipeg to begin with.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

EDIT: Just pointing out the trade idea won't work with NYR - I'm 99% sure that Trouba, with his NMC, will not return to Canada. His wife is a practicing medical professional who I think works out of the New York hospitals. At the very least, mobility would be restricted to the US - this is why he left Winnipeg to begin with.i

I knew about this, but I'm not really understanding why being a medical professional in Toronto wouldn't be desirable for her, but being a medical professional in (for random examples) Salt Lake City, Denver, Seattle, Dallas. Toronto is much closer to New York City in terms of city size / number of medical patients / number of medical professionals needed to service that level of population / etc. Toronto is a lot different than Winnipeg. Canada has a different health care system, but the medical professionals still make money and have careers here.

I can't really wrap my head around it. Rangers fans have been waiting for this summer when Trouba's NMC goes away so they can trade him, and there are only a handful of teams that will be interested in acquiring him. He'll have to go SOMEWHERE and Toronto could possibly be the city closest to NYC out of the options.

I guess that's all kind of off topic, but in my mind, it would make sense in theory for Trouba and his wife to come to Toronto, at least for 2 years until his contract expires. He can't force the Rangers to not trade him anymore, so New York City won't be an option for his wife anymore.

 

[WilliamInLondon]

I knew about this, but I'm not really understanding why being a medical professional in Toronto wouldn't be desirable for her, but being a medical professional in (for random examples) Salt Lake City, Denver, Seattle, Dallas. Toronto is much closer to New York City in terms of city size / number of medical patients / number of medical professionals needed to service that level of population / etc. Toronto is a lot different than Winnipeg. Canada has a different health care system, but the medical professionals still make money and have careers here.

I can't really wrap my head around it. Rangers fans have been waiting for this summer when Trouba's NMC goes away so they can trade him, and there are only a handful of teams that will be interested in acquiring him. He'll have to go SOMEWHERE and Toronto could possibly be the city closest to NYC out of the options.

I guess that's all kind of off topic, but in my mind, it would make sense in theory for Trouba and his wife to come to Toronto, at least for 2 years until his contract expires. He can't force the Rangers to not trade him anymore, so New York City won't be an option for his wife anymore.

It's not so much the desirability, but the amount of paperwork and prerequisites in place to able to practice medicine in Canada/Ontario, particularly at the clinical level. If anything, the medical centers in Toronto (research and clinical) are among the best in the world - but rather the amount of time it takes to be able to become a fully licensed clinician.

My friend's mother is an oncologist - it took her 7 years.

In most scenarios, some people might just eat a few years and pursue other interests to wait it out, especially given that Trouba has arguably 5 years of his career left versus 40+ for his spouse. But they do seem pretty invested in the dual career aspect given how much it just comes up in random Rangers-related news articles.

 

[Nineteen67]

They need to add quickness and speed.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

You still haven't given anyone here your ideas for changes over the summer. Easy to talk smack when you don't have the balls to give us your plan.

I don't get paid to be the GM.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

you must be related to Dubas , lol

this has to be one of the top 3 worst deals from the Leafs end that i've seen on this forum and that's saying something

I don't know how anyone could have watched Karlsson this year and still want that contract on our books right now. No freaking thank you.

 

[Nineteen67]

Marner for Karlsson
- Toronto needs a #1 puck moving powerplay weapon, and have needed a right handed puck mover since time immemorial; Pittsburgh experiment with two top RH d didn't work and their powerplay is equally as woeful, Dubas is familiar with Marner and has the chance to get a young superstar locked up to succeed Crosby et al. Karlsson might come with incentive or even a small retention.


Knies/Matthews/Domi (5m)
- Domi wants to be here, hopefully 5m as an estimate is on the higher side. Can switch to C if Tavares or Minten don't work out. Knies is going to take a monster step.

McMann/Tavares/Nylander
- Self explanatory. Robertson and Cowan also options here. Could swap Domi/Knies with Nylander and just run a de-facto top line and let Tavares cook on the cycle.

Cowan/Minten/Jarnkrok
- Kid line. Energy. Grebyonkin, Steeves, Holmberg, Robertson all in the mix. Let them learn and fail for the entire season and upgrade this spot at the deadline (forwards are cheaper than dman to trade for)

Dewar/Kampf/Holmberg
- Self explanatory. Holmberg could move up, Reaves plays here. Either way the Dewar/Kampf combo was a clear winner and worked with anyone.

Reaves,Robertson
- Extra skaters, tho Robertson can easily push for L2 or L3. Injuries happen.

McCabe/Karlsson
- Karlsson could be exactly what this team needs, push down Rielly to secondary competition, strap to McCabe who is no slouch. Move puck from the right side with a right shot. Threat from the point on the powerplay. Ticks so many boxes IF he isn't cooked.

Rielly/Tanev (4.5m)
- Obvious synergy with team Canada, perfect choice for Rielly to free wheel. BUT Toronto has injury demons with dmen in the playoffs, could be another Muzzin when they need him most. Maybe Roy is the better fit. Maybe get them both and get tough as hell.

Benoit/Liljegren
- Likely terrible, but should have a bit of cap space to sign additional players like Zadorov,Demelo,etc. Just trying to not be too ambitious. Liljegren might be done here, could be part of a Karlsson deal or shipped to make room for a UFA.

Webber/Timmins
- Timmins still has potential, right shot puck mover. Could replace Liljegren. Webber first call up.

Woll/???/Murray?
- IDK, healthy Woll could be the best tender in the league, keyword healthy. I don't know how a team with Woll/Hildeby/Aktyamov navigates a pricey goalie market.. Hold and pray, sign a 1 year journeyman to tandem, give Hildeby some games if there are injuries, pray some more.

Oh, and fire Keefe. This team needs to either be an exciting high powered offense or a strict no nonsense defensive stalwart, right now they are neither, and seem to be stuck in some limbo of being neither in the playoffs.

Wouldn’t missing the playoffs be worse?

 

[Wiseguys]

What's upsetting I read several posts of stripping JT of the captaincy. Father time is catching upto him, that's not his fault its part of life. It will happened to all of us eventually, where we don't perform like we used to due to the bodies diminishing physical capabilities. You can see he gives 100% effort and it bothers him that he isnt the player he once was, give him credit for what he's done in his career and as a Leaf. Let him finish it with dignity! Stripping the captaincy would be totally ruthless to the Leaf organization, how would that be perceived through out the league, and as a Leaf player who is offered the captaincy I would turn it done out of respect for JT.

 

[hotpaws]

What's upsetting I read several posts of stripping JT of the captaincy. Father time is catching up to him, that's not his fault its part of life. It will happened to all of us eventually, where we don't perform like we used to due to the bodies diminishing physical capabilities. You can see he gives 100% effort and it bothers him that he isnt the player he once was, give him credit for what he's done in his career and as a Leaf. Let him finish it with dignity! Stripping the captaincy would be totally ruthless to the Leaf organization, how would that be perceived through out the league, and as a Leaf player who is offered the captaincy I would turn it done out of respect for JT.

he should never have been given the C in the first place and i'd do everything within reason to get him waive his nmc but i wouldn't strip him of the C if he comes back , not out of respect for him since he's done nothing team wise but because the team doesn't need the drama in this market

i'm also getting tired of the latest excuse for him (age) , Panarin who signed a huge deal a year after him , is just a year younger is coming off his best season ever which is even more remarkable since he was 50pts ahead of his closest team mate

 

[hotpaws]

I don't know how anyone could have watched Karlsson this year and still want that contract on our books right now. No freaking thank you.

EK is 7 yrs older than Mitch and still has 3 yrs at 10m per left so only a massive Dubas fan would consider this a good deal for the Leafs , lol .

 

[57 Years No Cup]

he should never have been given the C in the first place and i'd do everything within reason to get him waive his nmc but i wouldn't strip him of the C if he comes back , not out of respect for him since he's done nothing team wise but because the team doesn't need the drama in this market

i'm also getting tired of the latest excuse for him (age) , Panarin who signed a huge deal a year after him , is just a year younger is coming off his best season ever which is even more remarkable since he was 50pts ahead of his closest team mate

I don't get it either. Tavares is only 33. His "decline" is premature if due to "aging". IMO opinion it's due to something else.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

EK is 7 yrs older the Mitch and still has 3 yrs at 10m per left so only a massive Dubas fan would consider this a good deal for the Leafs , lol .

More importantly, we need high quality shutdown defenders just as much as we need right handed D. Adding a puck mover powerplay right handed guy doesn't give us a better top pairing. We either have Rielly with somebody who isn't worthy of being top pair, or Karlsson and probably McCabe, who shouldn't be playing top pair. Rielly - Karlsson would be a terrible idea. If we want to improve our defense and go deep in the playoffs, we need the top pair or second pair or both to be legit worthy D pairings.

 

[Wiseguys]

he should never have been given the C in the first place and i'd do everything within reason to get him waive his nmc but i wouldn't strip him of the C if he comes back , not out of respect for him since he's done nothing team wise but because the team doesn't need the drama in this market

i'm also getting tired of the latest excuse for him (age) , Panarin who signed a huge deal a year after him , is just a year younger is coming off his best season ever which is even more remarkable since he was 50pts ahead of his closest team mate

Panarin is fortunate that his body and speed is holding up better then Taveras. I'm sure if it was the other way around Taveras would be at the same level if not better.