What would ya'll give grade for us at the deadline now?

[DraftSchmaft]

Not a single person here would agree to the returns if told it would cost Sandin and a 1st. Sandin and a 1st was the package every single one of us was using in the summer to land big fish.

We lost our best bruiser in Muzzin, a bonafide no.3 who plays the toughest minutes and replaced him with a no.5. Even with Muzzin, 75% of this place still thought we were missing a top 4.


This isn't the NHL as a whole any more it's the elite of the elite going head to head and there is still nothing that makes us any different from last season. It's going to be the same. The core 4 need to go beast mode with the exception they have O'Reilly to help them now. That's pretty good help if you ask me but do remember this isn't the same O'Reilly that helped Blues win the cup. He's on the wrong end of his prime and not at the same level as the core 4. Attrition has a huge chance to be a concern.


I get it, we're bored, wanted moves, got moves. I hope when the dust settles people calm down and see that we didn't put ourselves ahead of the elite of the league the way we think we did. We addressed none of our real flaws. I mean, O'Reilly plays selke level 2 way play, but defence from the forwards was never a concern. Our forwards play amazing D with or without O'Reilly.


Also, whether you believe it's true Kane had Leafs on his 2-3 team list or it was a lie, it doesn't change the fact that Kane forced the Hawks to trade him for very little relative to his trade value. Let's assume Kane had Leafs on his list, but in the last week changed his mind and said "nope, just 1 team, Rangers". There's still enough smoke there for Dubas to ditch the market value and add a little more to make the Hawks go have a discussion with him to get us back on the list. There was enough smoke there to make Kane a Leaf if we prioritized it. Persistence with a sprinkle of genius would have worked I think.

Our depth additions simply suck compared to the depth opponents added. Boston's Lindholm addition gets to carry over to this season as well FYI. When are we getting our top 4?


**Kane is used as a label as well. The real story here is we leaked assets this week just for the sake of leaking assets. Not even a Tyler Bertuzzi level for the bottom 6? We should have traded for a 2nd liner FOR OUR 3RD LINE like any other team in our position would do (I take that back, any other team in our position trades for a top 4. Literally bombard the league until someone gives in). It's not just about adding Kane. For me, Kane/Meier/Horvat etc etc + O'Reilly just allows you to cheat and not care about overall flaws. Core 4 + 2 BIG additions is a easy 16-0 cup run

 

[Shooter2x]

Not a single person here would agree to the returns if told it would cost Sandin and a 1st. Sandin and a 1st was the package every single one of us was using in the summer to land big fish.

We lost our best bruiser in Muzzin, a bonafide no.3 who plays the toughest minutes and replaced him with a no.5. Even with Muzzin, 75% of this place still thought we were missing a top 4.


This isn't the NHL as a whole any more it's the elite of the elite going head to head and there is still nothing that makes us any different from last season. It's going to be the same. The core 4 need to go beast mode with the exception they have O'Reilly to help them now. That's pretty good help if you ask me but do remember this isn't the same O'Reilly that helped Blues win the cup. He's on the wrong end of his prime and not at the same level as the core 4. Attrition has a huge chance to be a concern.


I get it, we're bored, wanted moves, got moves. I hope when the dust settles people calm down and see that we didn't put ourselves ahead of the elite of the league the way we think we did. We addressed none of our real flaws. I mean, O'Reilly plays selke level 2 way play, but defence from the forwards was never a concern. Our forwards play amazing D with or without O'Reilly.


Also, whether you believe it's true Kane had Leafs on his 2-3 team list or it was a lie, it doesn't change the fact that Kane forced the Hawks to trade him for very little relative to his trade value. Let's assume Kane had Leafs on his list, but in the last week changed his mind and said "nope, just 1 team, Rangers". There's still enough smoke there for Dubas to ditch the market value and add a little more to make the Hawks go have a discussion with him to get us back on the list. There was enough smoke there to make Kane a Leaf if we prioritized it. Persistence with a sprinkle of genius would have worked I think.

Our depth additions simply suck compared to the depth opponents added. Boston's Lindholm addition gets to carry over to this season as well FYI. When are we getting our top 4?


**Kane is used as a label as well. The real story here is we leaked assets this week just for the sake of leaking assets. Not even a Tyler Bertuzzi level for the bottom 6? We should have traded for a 2nd liner FOR OUR 3RD LINE like any other team in our position would do (I take that back, any other team in our position trades for a top 4. Literally bombard the league until someone gives in). It's not just about adding Kane. For me, Kane/Meier/Horvat etc etc + O'Reilly just allows you to cheat and not care about overall flaws. Core 4 + 2 BIG additions is a easy 16-0 cup run

Jake McCabe carry over >>>>>>>>> Lindholm carry over. Dubas is god.

Chill bro we got Lafferty we don't need scrubs like Bertuzzi or Jeannot

 

[666]

We needed to replace Muzzin and we did so that's good. And we added a slow ROR. It's not enough to beat Boston.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Not a single person here would agree to the returns if told it would cost Sandin and a 1st. Sandin and a 1st was the package every single one of us was using in the summer to land big fish.

We lost our best bruiser in Muzzin, a bonafide no.3 who plays the toughest minutes and replaced him with a no.5. Even with Muzzin, 75% of this place still thought we were missing a top 4.


This isn't the NHL as a whole any more it's the elite of the elite going head to head and there is still nothing that makes us any different from last season. It's going to be the same. The core 4 need to go beast mode with the exception they have O'Reilly to help them now. That's pretty good help if you ask me but do remember this isn't the same O'Reilly that helped Blues win the cup. He's on the wrong end of his prime and not at the same level as the core 4. Attrition has a huge chance to be a concern.


I get it, we're bored, wanted moves, got moves. I hope when the dust settles people calm down and see that we didn't put ourselves ahead of the elite of the league the way we think we did. We addressed none of our real flaws. I mean, O'Reilly plays selke level 2 way play, but defence from the forwards was never a concern. Our forwards play amazing D with or without O'Reilly.


Also, whether you believe it's true Kane had Leafs on his 2-3 team list or it was a lie, it doesn't change the fact that Kane forced the Hawks to trade him for very little relative to his trade value. Let's assume Kane had Leafs on his list, but in the last week changed his mind and said "nope, just 1 team, Rangers". There's still enough smoke there for Dubas to ditch the market value and add a little more to make the Hawks go have a discussion with him to get us back on the list. There was enough smoke there to make Kane a Leaf if we prioritized it. Persistence with a sprinkle of genius would have worked I think.

Our depth additions simply suck compared to the depth opponents added. Boston's Lindholm addition gets to carry over to this season as well FYI. When are we getting our top 4?


**Kane is used as a label as well. The real story here is we leaked assets this week just for the sake of leaking assets. Not even a Tyler Bertuzzi level for the bottom 6? We should have traded for a 2nd liner FOR OUR 3RD LINE like any other team in our position would do (I take that back, any other team in our position trades for a top 4. Literally bombard the league until someone gives in). It's not just about adding Kane. For me, Kane/Meier/Horvat etc etc + O'Reilly just allows you to cheat and not care about overall flaws. Core 4 + 2 BIG additions is a easy 16-0 cup run

That is not realistic at all.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I don't know how you don't consider ROR a difference maker.

Also, the McCabe and Lafferty acquisitions were solid for this run and next year. McCabe at $2M is one of the best contracts in the league now.

How is he a difference maker? He's going to be playing the 3C. That's not a position where someone who can make a real difference should be playing.

McCabe and Lafferty. Come on. McCabe is a middle pair defenseman. He's closer to Holl than he is to being a true top pair defender.

At the end of the day, Dubas drained a fistful if assets and only returned a 3C and a #4D as his prized acquisitions.

Compared to what teams like Boston and Rangers have done to beef up for the playoffs, and this just isn't enough.

That's just my opinion anyway.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

How is he a difference maker? He's going to be playing the 3C. That's not a position where someone who can make a real difference should be playing.

McCabe and Lafferty. Come on. McCabe is a middle pair defenseman. He's closer to Holl than he is to being a true top pair defender.

At the end of the day, Dubas drained a fistful if assets and only returned a 3C and a #4D as his prized acquisitions.

Compared to what teams like Boston and Rangers have done to beef up for the playoffs, and this just isn't enough.

That's just my opinion anyway.

If O’Reilly is a “3rd liner”, what do you see a normal 40 point 186 pounder as?

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

If O’Reilly is a “3rd liner”, what do you see a normal 40 point 186 pounder as?

I didn't call him a "3rd liner". You are putting words into my mouth. You even put quotes around it to indicate it was my actual words when I said no such thing.

I said he will most likely be playing 3C. There's a difference.

And 3C is not a position where you would expect a playoff hero to emerge because they just don't have that much impact on the game.

 

[Anthrax442]

DOn't get trophies for winning the TDL. However I think he came up with good creative ways to give this team all possible tools to win, without sacrificing the future.. Rest is on them. A

 

[egd27]

These guys are good players, sure. But not difference makers. Incremental improvements at the bottom of the roster isn't good enough.

Improvements at the bottom of the roster will be good enough if the guys at the top of the roster earn their paycheques.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I didn't call him a "3rd liner". You are putting words into my mouth. You even put quotes around it to indicate it was my actual words when I said no such thing.

I said he will most likely be playing 3C. There's a difference.

And 3C is not a position where you would expect a playoff hero to emerge because they just don't have that much impact on the game.

The biggest “difference “ seems to be you completely avoiding the one question you were asked?

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

The biggest “difference “ seems to be you completely avoiding the one question you were asked?

Oh I'm sorry I didn't answer your question about third line players that had nothing to do with my original comment and sees you putting words into my mouth.

 

[ToneDog]

I didn't call him a "3rd liner". You are putting words into my mouth. You even put quotes around it to indicate it was my actual words when I said no such thing.

I said he will most likely be playing 3C. There's a difference.

And 3C is not a position where you would expect a playoff hero to emerge because they just don't have that much impact on the game.

You could play JT in the #3C slot. Doubt it would make him happy but he is a pro.

 

[Al14]

It's now up to the players to show that they can play good consistent playoff hockey.

If they don't, then changes to the core is what has to happen next.

I gave Dubas a B for not giving up any of our top prospects. If he had turned Kerfoot and Holl into something better, then I would have given him an A+!!!

 

[Gary Nylund]

You must be new (kidding). Leafs will beat Tampa and Boston then find a way to lose to some bottom feeder that squeaked through. That’s how we work. LOL

If I'm being honest, I'm not thinking past the 2nd round. Boston is 17 points ahead of us with a game in hand and a goal differential of +104. They also made substantial adds at the TDL and frankly speaking, they scare the crap out of me.

 

[ShaneFalco]

You could play JT in the #3C slot. Doubt it would make him happy but he is a pro.

a gud pro though ?

 

[LeafEgo]

In a mad scramble to retool a third of the roster at the end of line we ended up with too many defenseman and not enough forwards. Whoopsy

No matter, we'll just go 11-7.

 

[therealkoho]

I graded his performance as a B+, that grade is subject to change which is wholly dependant upon 1st round performance.

Last year the Leafs acquitted themselves quite well in taking Tampa to 7. It wasn’t like they got run over they just didn't initiate enough. A bounce or two here a poor call there was the real difference between the two teams.

Todays Leafs are now going into this with the same amount of skill, but with more bite in the lineup than they've had in a long time. As things stand they should be able to back Tampa up and keep them out of the crease.

As long as the Leafs receive officiating that is fair and square, the additions Dubas made should be enough to propel the Leafs into the second round and that gets the mark up to an A-.

Not to get ahead of ourselves but if somehow it all comes together and they bring home the silver, than Dubas has earned himself a 5 year extension and a mandate to resolve the long term roster issues.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Oh I'm sorry I didn't answer your question about third line players that had nothing to do with my original comment and sees you putting words into my mouth.

Strike two. Why am I not surprised?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Going trade by trade:

O'Reilly + Acciari - I like them both so far a lot. However they did cost a lot and unless at least ROR re-signs, it's a big price for a rental. There's no indication that either will re-sign right now so right now it stands as a solid B.

McCabe + Lafferty - McCabe had a rough start to his Leaf tenure vs Edmonton but I thought he was great vs Calgary. They put on a masterclass of defensive hockey in the third on the second night of a back to back while on the road vs a team that had been beating them all night. Lafferty I haven't watched too closely so TBD on that. This trade also cost a lot in terms of futures but both players are under team control for an additional year. I'm giving this an B with potential for upgrade depending on how well Lafferty does.

Sandin for Erik Gustafsson and a 1st - Based on Dubas' press conference today, he said that Gus was an insurance policy in case Rielly gets injured and the 1st he plans on using during the draft or potentially trading it in the off season. I give this trade a D. Trading Sandin I understand, I'm sad to see him go but I do get it. The return makes 0 sense given that this team was making trades to Win Now. Using a 50 point offensive dman as a 7th D at best is a waste of a good asset. Caps fans say he's actually a lot better defensively than given credit for, we'll probably never really know since he'll never really get significant minutes on the team unless Rielly gets injured. The 1st is something that doesn't help us win now at all. I rather would have just used Sandin as a 7th D for the remainder of the season and traded him in the off season if this was the case.

Schenn for a 3rd - Leaning towards a D but I'll bump it p to a C-. Here's why I have a major issue with this trade. We already had EIGHT NHL defensemen prior to making this trade: Rielly, Gus, Giordano, McCabe and Liljegren, Holl, Brodie, Timmins. Benn is arguably still an NHL defensemen as well so you could debatably make it NINE dmen. I don't see the point in adding Schenn who fills much of the same roll that McCabe already plays but on the right side. It's also worthy to note that Brodie and McCabe are two defensemen that can play both left and right.

Engvall for a 3rd - F pending how Knies turns out. Probably the one that this board is gonna disagree with me on the most but here's my stance: I know we traded Engvall for cap reasons so we could get Schenn and make room for Knies. My question is why? Engvall is an everyday player on most teams even if he's a flawed player that everyone is angry with because he's 6'5 and doesn't play like prime Eric Lindros. He still makes the Bottom 6 better having nobody on it. We had a bottom 6 of Accarci, Lafferty, Kerfoot, Kampf, potentially ROR if needed, Jarmkrok, Engvall, ZAR. Engvall being taken out of that equation was unnecessary if we traded 1 of our TEN defensemen instead of him. You still could have rolled out that Bottom 6 and given Knies a shot at the end of the season if you had traded Holl or flipped Gus. Now you still have nine NHL defensemen and nine options on the bottom six. Instead we traded an everyday player and are betting on Knies to just slot into the lineup and rake. If Knies isn't ready and has to be taken out, our backup plan is what? Holmberg? McMann? It was a completely unnecessary gamble to make.

Overall, C. Bump up to a B if Knies comes as advertised.

Our backup plan probably is Holmberg and that's fine because he's already proven he can play.

 

[Smif]

I graded his performance as a B+, that grade is subject to change which is wholly dependant upon 1st round performance.

Last year the Leafs acquitted themselves quite well in taking Tampa to 7. It wasn’t like they got run over they just didn't initiate enough. A bounce or two here a poor call there was the real difference between the two teams.

Todays Leafs are now going into this with the same amount of skill, but with more bite in the lineup than they've had in a long time. As things stand they should be able to back Tampa up and keep them out of the crease.

As long as the Leafs receive officiating that is fair and square, the additions Dubas made should be enough to propel the Leafs into the second round and that gets the mark up to an A-.

Not to get ahead of ourselves but if somehow it all comes together and they bring home the silver, than Dubas has earned himself a 5 year extension and a mandate to resolve the long term roster issues.

You grade the GM on trade deadline day, then the draft and free agency. You grade the players throughout the season and in the playoffs. Chose a grade for the GM and stick with it, it shouldn't change after the end of season results.

Our backup plan probably is Holmberg and that's fine because he's already proven he can play.

I think having Holmberg and Knies ready to go makes it acceptable to be slightly short on forwards. Steeves and McMann are hopefuls also.

 

[ToneDog]

You grade the GM on trade deadline day, then the draft and free agency. You grade the players throughout the season and in the playoffs. Chose a grade for the GM and stick with it, it shouldn't change after the end of season results.


I think having Holmberg and Knies ready to go makes it acceptable to be slightly short on forwards. Steeves and McMann are hopefuls also.

You grade the GM once the final exams are complete. I mean he could have added Jesus Christ at the TDL but what good is that if they get crucified in the playoffs ??

 

[Smif]

You grade the GM once the final exams are complete. I mean he could have added Jesus Christ at the TDL but what good is that if they get crucified in the playoffs ??

He literally can't do anything about the teams performance anymore. It's up to the coach and players. He brought in enough skill to go deep into the playoffs imo, it's now out of his hands tho.

 

[ToneDog]

He literally can't do anything about the teams performance anymore. It's up to the coach and players. He brought in enough skill to go deep into the playoffs imo, it's now out of his hands tho.

On paper and in theory, agreed. It is always up to the players and coaches but you cannot fire 23 players if they can't get it done.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

You grade the GM on trade deadline day, then the draft and free agency. You grade the players throughout the season and in the playoffs. Chose a grade for the GM and stick with it, it shouldn't change after the end of season results.


I think having Holmberg and Knies ready to go makes it acceptable to be slightly short on forwards. Steeves and McMann are hopefuls also.

I have no confidence in Mcmann, I know he's not there primarily to score but he gave them NOTHING offensively.

I've said it before this isn't 2001 you can't have guys on the team that give you NOTHING offensively anymore.

Yes there is more to hockey than scoring but everybody has to chip in.

 

[Its not your fault]

Not a single person here would agree to the returns if told it would cost Sandin and a 1st. Sandin and a 1st was the package every single one of us was using in the summer to land big fish.

We lost our best bruiser in Muzzin, a bonafide no.3 who plays the toughest minutes and replaced him with a no.5. Even with Muzzin, 75% of this place still thought we were missing a top 4.


This isn't the NHL as a whole any more it's the elite of the elite going head to head and there is still nothing that makes us any different from last season. It's going to be the same. The core 4 need to go beast mode with the exception they have O'Reilly to help them now. That's pretty good help if you ask me but do remember this isn't the same O'Reilly that helped Blues win the cup. He's on the wrong end of his prime and not at the same level as the core 4. Attrition has a huge chance to be a concern.


I get it, we're bored, wanted moves, got moves. I hope when the dust settles people calm down and see that we didn't put ourselves ahead of the elite of the league the way we think we did. We addressed none of our real flaws. I mean, O'Reilly plays selke level 2 way play, but defence from the forwards was never a concern. Our forwards play amazing D with or without O'Reilly.


Also, whether you believe it's true Kane had Leafs on his 2-3 team list or it was a lie, it doesn't change the fact that Kane forced the Hawks to trade him for very little relative to his trade value. Let's assume Kane had Leafs on his list, but in the last week changed his mind and said "nope, just 1 team, Rangers". There's still enough smoke there for Dubas to ditch the market value and add a little more to make the Hawks go have a discussion with him to get us back on the list. There was enough smoke there to make Kane a Leaf if we prioritized it. Persistence with a sprinkle of genius would have worked I think.

Our depth additions simply suck compared to the depth opponents added. Boston's Lindholm addition gets to carry over to this season as well FYI. When are we getting our top 4?


**Kane is used as a label as well. The real story here is we leaked assets this week just for the sake of leaking assets. Not even a Tyler Bertuzzi level for the bottom 6? We should have traded for a 2nd liner FOR OUR 3RD LINE like any other team in our position would do (I take that back, any other team in our position trades for a top 4. Literally bombard the league until someone gives in). It's not just about adding Kane. For me, Kane/Meier/Horvat etc etc + O'Reilly just allows you to cheat and not care about overall flaws. Core 4 + 2 BIG additions is a easy 16-0 cup run

That's next year.