What to do with Morgan Rielly - TSN: Cut from squad.
- Thread starter Tak7
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BlueBaron
Registered User
A very special opinion, probably less than 1% of anyone who has ever watched him play agree with you. Very brave to boldly announce your opinion. Also very funny.
charliolemieux
rsTmf
- Apr 1, 2010
- 9,715
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This isn't your typical first year though remember. He had the WJHC experience and he did go back to junior and hopefully refined some skills. It really makes this a tough call. I'd say absolutely send him back if he had the option of returning to a league/memorial cup contender but Moose Jaw is last in their conference!
What are 27 games on a last place team going to help?
I know that once his season in the dub is over he can sign a deal with the Marlies, but what are the rules on joining the Leafs? On March 17th (End of the season in the dub) can he join the leafs? Leafs will have 19 games remaining and a better idea of whether they're a playoff team or a rebuilding team. In a perfect world I have him play some games bouncing between the Marlies and Leafs once the junior season is over.
What are 27 games on a last place team going to help?
I know that once his season in the dub is over he can sign a deal with the Marlies, but what are the rules on joining the Leafs? On March 17th (End of the season in the dub) can he join the leafs? Leafs will have 19 games remaining and a better idea of whether they're a playoff team or a rebuilding team. In a perfect world I have him play some games bouncing between the Marlies and Leafs once the junior season is over.
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Keep him up for 5 games. Yeah it's only 5 games but valuable experience seeing NHL game speed out side of training camp, barring an injury i don't see 5 games affecting his development at all.
Leaf Rocket
Leaf Fan Till I Die
Crispy Crust
Registered User
Reilly is paired with Phaneuf. If he wasnt going to make the team, he would be in the bottom pairing. How long he stays, time will tell. Reilly is a great kid, nevermind the excellent potential he has. Great draft pick.
Good god that would be an awful pairing! Phaneuf works best with a defensive minded guy, Rielly is far more offensive oriented. Not just that pitting Rielly against the best of the league is just a bad situation for him, he needs to be eased in slowly, I see no reason why he cant play bottom pair and get time on the 2nd powerplay unit.
not really sure you can look at that Kadri played with Hamilton and Lombardi today does that mean he's getting cut like the other 2 did?
not if he develops better and refine skills that will make him a GREAT player.
The only logical answer is to play him the 5 games and re-evaluate his play. Why the hell would people send him down or keep him up without considering his play and how he helps the team win?
It's funny to me how Luke being kept up hurt his development, that's beyond speculative and assuming that somehow him plaing an extra year would have made him a better skater and a far more offensive player is ridiculous. Luke Schenn has been his best here based on the simple fact that he's Luke Schenn, he's a very limited player who was going to take a long time to reach his prime.
Also Morgan Rielly and Luke are completely different players, Luke's weaknesses are Rielly's strengths.
Just reassess after the 5 games, if Rielly proves himself to be ready then keep him up. Personally, I don't think he's ready atm, he needs work on the defensive side, but we'll let Morgan's play decide that at least.
It's funny to me how Luke being kept up hurt his development, that's beyond speculative and assuming that somehow him plaing an extra year would have made him a better skater and a far more offensive player is ridiculous. Luke Schenn has been his best here based on the simple fact that he's Luke Schenn, he's a very limited player who was going to take a long time to reach his prime.
Also Morgan Rielly and Luke are completely different players, Luke's weaknesses are Rielly's strengths.
Just reassess after the 5 games, if Rielly proves himself to be ready then keep him up. Personally, I don't think he's ready atm, he needs work on the defensive side, but we'll let Morgan's play decide that at least.
Here's how I see the whole "ruining a player by bringing him up to early" argument:
a) If a player has NHL level defence, but weak offence, and you think he can develop better offence given time in the minors, then send him down. In the NHL he'll probably fall back on keeping it simple offensively, while playing good d, and will thus develop into a role player, not a star.
b) If a player has NHL level defence, and weak offence, BUT you're projecting him as just a defensive player anyways, then keep him up as long as his NHL impact is positive.
c) If a player has NHL level offence, but weak defence, he won't be hurt by playing in the NHL, but he might hurt your team with his weak defence. As long as he's helping your team, then keep him up.
And then a final note:
b) If you think a player is going to get physically ruined in the NHL, and quickly injured, leave him in the minors until he bulks up and/or learns to avoid big hits, regardless of his offensive or defensive ability.
I think Rielly falls into category "c)", so I'd keep him up as long as he has a positive impact, and as long as you're not worried about "d)" (high injury risk). With that being said, I'm not sure that he's currently good enough to have a positive NHL impact. So I voted "Play him for 5 games - then re-evaluate at that point."
a) If a player has NHL level defence, but weak offence, and you think he can develop better offence given time in the minors, then send him down. In the NHL he'll probably fall back on keeping it simple offensively, while playing good d, and will thus develop into a role player, not a star.
b) If a player has NHL level defence, and weak offence, BUT you're projecting him as just a defensive player anyways, then keep him up as long as his NHL impact is positive.
c) If a player has NHL level offence, but weak defence, he won't be hurt by playing in the NHL, but he might hurt your team with his weak defence. As long as he's helping your team, then keep him up.
And then a final note:
b) If you think a player is going to get physically ruined in the NHL, and quickly injured, leave him in the minors until he bulks up and/or learns to avoid big hits, regardless of his offensive or defensive ability.
I think Rielly falls into category "c)", so I'd keep him up as long as he has a positive impact, and as long as you're not worried about "d)" (high injury risk). With that being said, I'm not sure that he's currently good enough to have a positive NHL impact. So I voted "Play him for 5 games - then re-evaluate at that point."
Jerkini
Registered User
If he sticks this season, it's inevitable we'll be talking about how we rushed him next season. I'm bookmarking this post just in case.
So what you're saying is that Morgan can't develop better or refine his skills playing and practicing with the best players in the world, while being under the tutelage of a Norris trophy winning coach?
maplehawk
HFB Partner
Is it just me or has Rielly been really gun shy throughout the WJC and now in Leafs camp?
He was definitely apprehensive in Ufa, rarely showing his skating and puck skills. Now Carlyle is making similar remarks about his play in camp - the kid just seems reluctant to show what he's got.
It's been a far cry recently from the supremely confident player we see in Moose Jaw on a regular basis. For this reason, I hope he's returned to junior. He needs a little dose of Kadri-style confidence and swagger.
He was definitely apprehensive in Ufa, rarely showing his skating and puck skills. Now Carlyle is making similar remarks about his play in camp - the kid just seems reluctant to show what he's got.
It's been a far cry recently from the supremely confident player we see in Moose Jaw on a regular basis. For this reason, I hope he's returned to junior. He needs a little dose of Kadri-style confidence and swagger.
That'll just be an excuse for a player just not being good enough for the NHL. "Ruining a player by rushing him" just assumes that the player was good enough but outside circumstances somehow got in the way of his development. Either a player is good enough to be an NHLer, perhaps even a great NHLer, or he's not... it's simple as that really.
-Give him a few games at the NHL level so that he knows what to go home and work on.
-Send him back to dominate in junior
-Have him finish the season with Marlies as they go on another playoff run
-Reassess next year with him most likely making the team
Rielly has been good in junior but he hasn't been great. At the recent world juniors as the tournament progessed he wasn't even one of the top defenders for team Canada. If guys like PK Subban, Dougie Hamilton, Alex Pietrangelo can all spend some extra time dominating in junior, I don't see why Rielly can't especially considering how serious his knee injury was last season.
-Send him back to dominate in junior
-Have him finish the season with Marlies as they go on another playoff run
-Reassess next year with him most likely making the team
Rielly has been good in junior but he hasn't been great. At the recent world juniors as the tournament progessed he wasn't even one of the top defenders for team Canada. If guys like PK Subban, Dougie Hamilton, Alex Pietrangelo can all spend some extra time dominating in junior, I don't see why Rielly can't especially considering how serious his knee injury was last season.
Im Old Gregggg
Registered User
I think it's just a comfort thing and a coach thing. I think the big ice surface in Ufa made him hold back for obvious reasons, and plus he wasn't getting the necessary ice-time to be as effective as he is in MJ.
I think in this camp, Morgan realizes there's a microscope on him and every mistake is magnified, I'd imagine that would make an 18 year old, who wants to make the team, very tentative. The kind of game Morgan plays is exciting and on occasion is prone to making mistakes. I hope people are prepared for that.
I like that Carlyle is trying to play him to his strengths and even being aggressive in his methods by having a meeting with Morgan to discuss his strengths. A good coach plays his players to their strengths, which I'm glad Randy is being proactive about unlike a certain WJC coach.
He's still a young kid, and to expect him to be the kind of player he is in MJ right away when the level of competition increases is perhaps asking too much of him. Let him taste NHL and let's see what he can do in the bigs.
I also think, unless Gards comes back, he'll be getting 1st pp duty on Saturday and he'll obviously shine in that role.
I don't think you should give him 5 games even. We have plenty of NHL defenders, ones that play his role as well:
Gunnnar - Phaneuf
Liles - Franson
Fraser - Komi
Holzer
Where does Rielly fit? Playing this year would just be a waste of a year of his contract for no reason. We already have 7 NHL ready Defensemen. Not to mention we have 3 D men in the starting 6 that are more offensive than defensive, in Phaneuf, Liles and Franson. Once Gardiner gets back, thats 4 in the top 5. Imagine if we play Rielly for 5 games, he plays good enough to where we keep him, we would have a group of D men, where possibly 5 of the 6 D men are more offensive than defensive. Not to mention the problems it would cause in terms of the Lefty/righty pairings.
Gunnnar - Phaneuf
Liles - Franson
Fraser - Komi
Holzer
Where does Rielly fit? Playing this year would just be a waste of a year of his contract for no reason. We already have 7 NHL ready Defensemen. Not to mention we have 3 D men in the starting 6 that are more offensive than defensive, in Phaneuf, Liles and Franson. Once Gardiner gets back, thats 4 in the top 5. Imagine if we play Rielly for 5 games, he plays good enough to where we keep him, we would have a group of D men, where possibly 5 of the 6 D men are more offensive than defensive. Not to mention the problems it would cause in terms of the Lefty/righty pairings.
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