What to do about Jack Eichel?
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If we want him, waiting may lead to another firm getting him. I'm not advocating for getting him or not, just saying.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
I freely admit that the cost of Eichel and the roster aftermath is a primary concern for me.
It's not just what you give up for Eichel, it's the series of follow-up moves that makes me wonder --- especially if you move a guy like Chytil. Now you're looking for a second line center, while moving Zibanejad, and knowing that Strome is probably still best served as a transition piece.
It's one thing to live in a scenario where you move Zibanejad and Buch and replace them Eichel and Kravtsov in the lineup.
But when you start including Chytil and Kravtsov and Lundkvist, it's not just a high price to pay, it's the potential ramifications down the line as you look for cheaper talent to come into the lineup and help fill in the holes. So making a move like this potentially has a far-reaching impact.
I think that's why it's at least worth considering if the Rangers might be better off going with "lesser" option who actually makes for a better overall impact when you factor in cost and roster construction.
Another nagging feeling for me is the fact that while not knowing what Eichel can do with the Rangers is a good/tempting thought, it can also cut the other way as well.
Yes, it's easy to envision a 40 goal/95 point center (depending on who's left on the roster). But you can also have pause because we have no idea how Eichel will perform when it really counts --- namely the playoffs. So while we're talking about a supremely skilled forward, we're also talking about a guy who still has some gray areas on the treasure map as well.
Not saying he's not worth it. But it doesn't feel like a simple decision for me.
It's not just what you give up for Eichel, it's the series of follow-up moves that makes me wonder --- especially if you move a guy like Chytil. Now you're looking for a second line center, while moving Zibanejad, and knowing that Strome is probably still best served as a transition piece.
It's one thing to live in a scenario where you move Zibanejad and Buch and replace them Eichel and Kravtsov in the lineup.
But when you start including Chytil and Kravtsov and Lundkvist, it's not just a high price to pay, it's the potential ramifications down the line as you look for cheaper talent to come into the lineup and help fill in the holes. So making a move like this potentially has a far-reaching impact.
I think that's why it's at least worth considering if the Rangers might be better off going with "lesser" option who actually makes for a better overall impact when you factor in cost and roster construction.
Another nagging feeling for me is the fact that while not knowing what Eichel can do with the Rangers is a good/tempting thought, it can also cut the other way as well.
Yes, it's easy to envision a 40 goal/95 point center (depending on who's left on the roster). But you can also have pause because we have no idea how Eichel will perform when it really counts --- namely the playoffs. So while we're talking about a supremely skilled forward, we're also talking about a guy who still has some gray areas on the treasure map as well.
Not saying he's not worth it. But it doesn't feel like a simple decision for me.
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Eichel has Rick Nash vibes to me. just a good regular season player and does not know how to score or play in the playoffs. hard pass here
smoneil
Registered User
I don't know if I'd go that far. Playoff hockey has to be learned. We have no way of knowing if he could do it until we see him in those games. A lot of players struggle their first couple of times in the playoffs before learning what sorts of adjustments they need to make. That was the issue with Nash. His performance got better in the playoffs each year that we had him. Unfortunately, the team's ability to compete went down in each of those same years. If we had year 3 Nash on year 1 Rangers, I honestly think we beat the Kings.
My concern with Eichel remains his production and his "late season" stats. Whether he's injury prone or some other reason, Eichel has never dominated the stat sheet the way other top players have. His best season he was tied for 10th in scoring, and he wasn't even close to top ten in any of his other seasons. Again, that may not be all his fault, but you'd want a guy this expensive (both in cap and in acquisition cost) to be up there in the charts a bit more often over 6 years. My other concern is the fact that, over the last three years, his production plummets in the last couple of months of the season. I know that Buffalo was frequently out of it by then, but to me, that indicates a player who gives up, and I don't want that kind of attitude anywhere near a young NHL team.
he does seem to have a bad attitude maybe being on a losing team for so long will do that, if he was drafted by the Penguins Hawks or Bruins I doubt he would have that same attitude but no one will ever know. Rick Nash also on a losing team, never was seen as a player who gave up unless you think that requesting a trade is giving up, at the same time if you have that bad attitude by just being in the NHL, I doubt any team would change that bad attitude. Eichel has to grow up
SchneidersPretzels
Registered User
- Feb 18, 2021
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smoneil
Registered User
Oh definitely, and that's my big concern. It's like Bobhop said earlier--losing sticks to a person. Look at the talent on Buffalo's roster. Is it that much worse (or worse at all) than the talent on the 2005-2009 Rangers? One great line and a never-say-die attitude can propel a team to bubble status. But they need the leaders to take them there. Eichel never has.
SchneidersPretzels
Registered User
- Feb 18, 2021
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How about panarin for eichel, straight up. Rangers have looked great for some stretches without panarin. They will have plenty of depth at wing, but desperately need a C
Like Edge already said, the potential ramifications of going from Zib/Chytil to just Eichel has me concerned. We might end up with the better player of those 3 after all the swapping is done, but I’m not sure we’re any better off as a team (although it also depends on what we get for Zibby).
However, what also has me very concerned is Eichel just doesn’t seem to be a very efficient player at ES. He’s spoon fed tons of offensive minutes w/ Ozone starts (2nd only to Mackinnon) and yet still doesn’t produce close to the best 1Cs. Now that isn’t necessarily an issue on its own, but it is when he costs just a much as them. (plus the trade assets).
Now you’ll say “well yes, he just hasn’t had the support.” Well he’s paid to be THE guy. The centerpiece who lifts others. If he’s not, now we have to pay more to ensure he has the support. The math really starts to fall apart quickly from there.
However, what also has me very concerned is Eichel just doesn’t seem to be a very efficient player at ES. He’s spoon fed tons of offensive minutes w/ Ozone starts (2nd only to Mackinnon) and yet still doesn’t produce close to the best 1Cs. Now that isn’t necessarily an issue on its own, but it is when he costs just a much as them. (plus the trade assets).
Now you’ll say “well yes, he just hasn’t had the support.” Well he’s paid to be THE guy. The centerpiece who lifts others. If he’s not, now we have to pay more to ensure he has the support. The math really starts to fall apart quickly from there.
SchneidersPretzels
Registered User
- Feb 18, 2021
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If smart, he will approvelike Panarin would approve a trade to Buffalo.
Bread man can expand the menu... Buffalo wild wings
smoneil
Registered User
Nope. Panarin is worth significantly more than Eichel. Eichel has finished top 20 in scoring once. Panarin has literally never finished outside the top 20. The team is built the way it's built. We will have depth on D, solid goaltending, and three STACKED lines on the wings. We'll need to get a bit creative with the centers. We just don't have the budget for a super expensive center.
NYSPORTS
back afta dis. . .
- Jun 17, 2019
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Harbour Dog
Registered User
Panarin for Eichel makes the most sense for us, but:
1) Panarin isn't waiving to go to Buffalo, and I doubt we would even ask him.
2) I'd still want to see if Eichel can get back to being a gamebreaker first.
3) Buffalo would have to add, like it or lump it. Panarin is better, and their guy is the one that wants out, not ours.
4) Buffalo probably doesn't want to make a sideways trade, and should be targetting a few years down the road more than today anyway.
And with Eichel maybe being put on LTIR for a neck injury, while also having multiple other nagging injuries; and Bettman announcing a flat cap for the next four years, I just don't see how its reasonable to trade for Eichel right now, unless its an absolute steal of a trade. We have so many variables affecting how the team will come together over the next few years, and adding Eichel and his 10M cap hit to the list is stressful even just to think about.
1) Panarin isn't waiving to go to Buffalo, and I doubt we would even ask him.
2) I'd still want to see if Eichel can get back to being a gamebreaker first.
3) Buffalo would have to add, like it or lump it. Panarin is better, and their guy is the one that wants out, not ours.
4) Buffalo probably doesn't want to make a sideways trade, and should be targetting a few years down the road more than today anyway.
And with Eichel maybe being put on LTIR for a neck injury, while also having multiple other nagging injuries; and Bettman announcing a flat cap for the next four years, I just don't see how its reasonable to trade for Eichel right now, unless its an absolute steal of a trade. We have so many variables affecting how the team will come together over the next few years, and adding Eichel and his 10M cap hit to the list is stressful even just to think about.
n8
WAAAAAAA!!!
not worth the price. If he was a regular Selke candidate, I would be in the the not-the-untouchables category. But even then, realistically you'd have to give up at least one juicy talent. We should be looking for this decade's ROR trade, not this decades Matt Duchene trade.
Yea that’s how I feel about him. McDavid or Draisaitl type of players are the only players Rangers should targeting to give up their top prospects. Tired of acquiring players that are good, but aren’t elite.
If there's a slightly lower tier option out there who is the right mix of age, contract status, ability, and cost to acquire, I'd lean towards that route over Eichel. We're potentially looking at 3 elite wingers and a number of very good complimentary wingers as well. I think we can still be a top team in the NHL without a franchise pivot.
For as far back as I can remember, the anatomy of a winner was two top 2Cs and a 1D. In the cap era it seems that anatomy is changing. Bergeron and an aging Krejci, Backstrom and Kuzy, RoR and Schenn and Point and Cirelli are a far cry from the elite 1-2 punches we’ve seen for decades. What those teams all did have was depth which created a relentless attack that left their opponents w/ little time to breathe.
I think we have to accept the fact that with all our talent at W and D, we’re not going to be a contender with that classic 1C, and that might be ok. As long as we ensure we are a deep team, instead of a top heavy one with all our cap resources committed to just a few players.
I don't want to slight Point or Backstrom because they're elite players but I think you can certainly win in this league without that flashy, high-offense #1 center. Like you mentioned, the Bruins lack that sort of center. Toews in Chicago was productive during those cup runs but certainly wasn't that flashy player and the Hawks had all kinds of crap lined up behind him. 5 of the last 10 cup winners lacked that guy on their team, so it's certainly possible if you have the depth elsewhere.
It's very hard to add a $10m player without running the risk of seriously disrupting things either immediately or down the line. That's dropping a huge rock in the water and there will be short and long term fallout from it. We've got elite players at all other positions. I think we can manage with "just" a couple 60ish point centers, but finding those guys is another story.
Agreed. Not a slight at any of those 1Cs. I’d take all of them in a heartbeat, but idk if I’d take all the 2Cs. Compare that to the previous era of Sid/Gino, Kopi/Carter or Richards, Berg and young Krejci, Dats and Zetts. We’ve all been conditioned to think that’s what’s required cause it’s what we’ve always seen, but times are a changing in a tight cap world where young players are getting the type of contracts historically reserved for UFAs.
Also, due to that flat cap, we’re likely to see more players shake loose. If we’re patient and keep our powder dry (in cap and assets) the odds are better now than ever that we can find the right fit, as opposed to what fits right now.
Eichel is a center, younger, and has yet to show what he can do in the playoffs.
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