What Roster changes do you make if Marner doesn't waive?

[Torontonian]

He's slow and he doesn't play Berube's game. That's the wrong message to send. Something cheap isn't a disaster. Have him on PP2 might be useful.

I'm full mini-rebuild and I'm trading Marner and moving on from JT unless the price is too good to pass up. 3 AAV x 5 years with a Robidas Island backup plan.

The Leafs aren't going into a "mini rebuild" when they have the best goal scorer in the league under contract and are paying another winger 11.5m for the next 8 years.

John Tavares actually plays Berubes game and system which is North/South and get in on the forecheck, and then get to the net for tip ins and garbage goals. He doesn't really play Keefes system which is possession, hold onto the puck longer and go east/west to make plays.

Tavares coming back is fine, but it needs to be as the 3rd line center, and a contract the Leafs win on, he's the one you play hardball with.

 

[Trapper]

The Leafs aren't going into a "mini rebuild" when they have the best goal scorer in the league under contract and are paying another winger 11.5m for the next 8 years.

John Tavares actually plays Berubes game and system which is North/South and get in on the forecheck, and then get to the net for tip ins and garbage goals. He doesn't really play Keefes system which is possession, hold onto the puck longer and go east/west to make plays.

Tavares coming back is fine, but it needs to be as the 3rd line center, and a contract the Leafs win on, he's the one you play hardball with.

I would move Tavares to LW if we can get a long term 2C and let him play that north/south game. He still had 29 goals and can stand in front of the net on the PP.

 

[Nineteen67]

The Leafs aren't going into a "mini rebuild" when they have the best goal scorer in the league under contract and are paying another winger 11.5m for the next 8 years.

John Tavares actually plays Berubes game and system which is North/South and get in on the forecheck, and then get to the net for tip ins and garbage goals. He doesn't really play Keefes system which is possession, hold onto the puck longer and go east/west to make plays.

Tavares coming back is fine, but it needs to be as the 3rd line center, and a contract the Leafs win on, he's the one you play hardball with.

What does playing north south mean?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

The Leafs aren't going into a "mini rebuild"

Call it what you like.

They are moving on from Marner.

 

[IPS]

What does playing north south mean?

North south has lost a bit of its meaning over the years.
Probably still means most of the same stuff I'd assume. Minimal passes from the D-zone to the neutral zone, dump and chase, forecheck hard, very high pace.

Now whether or not our guys adapt to that well, guess we'll find out. My guess is no.

 

[Torontonian]

What does playing north south mean?

Pretty much means playing a simpler game, instead of trying to make a risky play across the middle of the ice, they breakout and move forward into the o-zone and dump it in at the blue line if they get clogged up.

Call it what you like.

They are moving on from Marner.

When I think of anything with the word "rebuild" I tend to think of trading players for prospects and draft picks, I don't think Toronto goes down the route, they maybe get a 1st which is standard, but they are going to get established players to help them win now.

 

[IPS]

Pretty much means playing a simpler game, instead of trying to make a risky play across the middle of the ice, they breakout and move forward into the o-zone and dump it in at the blue line if they get clogged up.

The main problem with this is that Marner is an east-west player to the core. He's fussy about his zone entries being clean and when you deny him the neutral zone he doesn't have the speed nor the strength to either blow by guys or dump and chase and get the puck back (especially not this).

 

[rumman]

North south has lost a bit of its meaning over the years.
Probably still means most of the same stuff I'd assume. Minimal passes from the D-zone to the neutral zone, dump and chase, forecheck hard, very high pace.

Now whether or not our guys adapt to that well, guess we'll find out. My guess is no.

Wonder if Berube will get the old harnesses out that Eddie Shore made the wingers wear that restricted how far from the boards they could skate, got to love the old time hockey stories……..

 

[Trapper]

The main problem with this is that Marner is an east-west player to the core. He's fussy about his zone entries being clean and when you deny him the neutral zone he doesn't have the speed nor the strength to either blow by guys or dump and chase and get the puck back (especially not this).

You have to wonder how a new coach (if he implements a north/south) will affect things. If it is about team, will ice time change?
18 minutes from top players and rolling 4 lines consistently. Less east/west and holding the puck? No blowing the zone, 5 men up, 5 back? And all this in a Marner contract year? Matthews and Nylander got the Sheldon Keefe contract years.
What if stars drop 15/20 points in a different system?

 

[IPS]

You have to wonder how a new coach (if he implements a north/south) will affect things. If it is about team, will ice time change?
18 minutes from top players and rolling 4 lines consistently. Less east/west and holding the puck? No blowing the zone, 5 men up, 5 back? And all this in a Marner contract year? Matthews and Nylander got the Sheldon Keefe contract years.
What if stars drop 15/20 points in a different system?

I really hope so. As bad as it is I'm genuinely at the point where I just hope Berube is a coach who makes life utterly miserable for the core-4 (if they're all still here). A pure north south style would definitely go against the grain of they've been doing for awhile now.

But I don't think anything ultimately changes until the leadership/culture of the team does.

 

[Nineteen67]

Pretty much means playing a simpler game, instead of trying to make a risky play across the middle of the ice, they breakout and move forward into the o-zone and dump it in at the blue line if they get clogged up.

When I think of anything with the word "rebuild" I tend to think of trading players for prospects and draft picks, I don't think Toronto goes down the route, they maybe get a 1st which is standard, but they are going to get established players to help them win now.

Otherwise known as smart hockey, but won’t their lack of speed prevent puck retrieval?

 

[Nineteen67]

North south has lost a bit of its meaning over the years.
Probably still means most of the same stuff I'd assume. Minimal passes from the D-zone to the neutral zone, dump and chase, forecheck hard, very high pace.

Now whether or not our guys adapt to that well, guess we'll find out. My guess is no.

I know Berube mentioned it n his introductory press conference and it’ll be a buzzword used by the media and fans without know what it means.

 

[rumman]

You have to wonder how a new coach (if he implements a north/south) will affect things. If it is about team, will ice time change?
18 minutes from top players and rolling 4 lines consistently. Less east/west and holding the puck? No blowing the zone, 5 men up, 5 back? And all this in a Marner contract year? Matthews and Nylander got the Sheldon Keefe contract years.
What if stars drop 15/20 points in a different system?

Good reason for Marner to want out before his big pay day imo……

 

[Trapper]

Good reason for Marner to want out before his big pay day imo……

That’s exactly what I’m hoping.
Marner asking to move will help avoid the we didn’t like the offers so we gave him 13 million scenario.

 

[socko]

The Leafs aren't going into a "mini rebuild" when they have the best goal scorer in the league under contract and are paying another winger 11.5m for the next 8 years.

John Tavares actually plays Berubes game and system which is North/South and get in on the forecheck, and then get to the net for tip ins and garbage goals. He doesn't really play Keefes system which is possession, hold onto the puck longer and go east/west to make plays.

Tavares coming back is fine, but it needs to be as the 3rd line center, and a contract the Leafs win on, he's the one you play hardball with.

That's what I'm afraid of. That Berube will want to bring Tavares back. You can't have a checking line with Tavares on it. Tavares is too slow to check anyone. You pretty much have to play a trap system for him to not be noticeably too slow to play in this league.

 

[Torontonian]

Otherwise known as smart hockey, but won’t their lack of speed prevent puck retrieval?

It could be, but apart from Tavares (still think he will be fine in the system), Can't see Toronto really struggling with speed. Matthews / Nylander / Bert / Domi / Marner aren't McDavid out there, but aren't exactly slow. Players like Reaves will struggle though.

Theres two bigger issues, forechecking and retrieving the puck, if your not heavy on the forecheck, defenders will be able to absorb the check and make a play fair easily. The other is if the other teams goalie can play the puck well, then you're going to be in some trouble as they just act as a 3rd d-man.

 

[bodechek]

What roster moves can you make? It will be more of the same from previous years until both Marner and Tavares' contracts are up and off the books.

 

[keonsbitterness]

The OP's premise is flawed, thus the discussion about it.

Marner will waive, if asked. Guaranteed.

Possible, but I think far from guaranteed.

 

[Fogelhund]

I would move Tavares to LW if we can get a long term 2C and let him play that north/south game. He still had 29 goals and can stand in front of the net on the PP.

Apologies if the discussion has moved on from the original premise of this thread... but if we are sticking to this being a discussion about what does the roster look like if Marner is not traded....

Well, if we sign our RFA's (including Lilly @$3mil)... and Domi @ $3.5 mil... (Which seems doubtful he'll be that cheap)... I've got a roster that needs a top pairing RD, second pairing RD, and Goalie....
That's without trading anyone else and $9.8 million left. I just don't see how you go and get a long-term 2C in addition to filling those spots, with the cap space available.

I think the closest you could come, is moving out Kampf and Jarnkrok, and bringing in a guy like Henrique... who really isn't a 2C, nor someone you'd want for that 2C spot long-term.

Bringing back Marner, after Matthews and Nylander's extension, is a real handcuff situation.

 

[mydnyte]

Apologies if the discussion has moved on from the original premise of this thread... but if we are sticking to this being a discussion about what does the roster look like if Marner is not traded....

Well, if we sign our RFA's (including Lilly @$3mil)... and Domi @ $3.5 mil... (Which seems doubtful he'll be that cheap)... I've got a roster that needs a top pairing RD, second pairing RD, and Goalie....
That's without trading anyone else and $9.8 million left. I just don't see how you go and get a long-term 2C in addition to filling those spots, with the cap space available.

I think the closest you could come, is moving out Kampf and Jarnkrok, and bringing in a guy like Henrique... who really isn't a 2C, nor someone you'd want for that 2C spot long-term.

Bringing back Marner, after Matthews and Nylander's extension, is a real handcuff situation.

I am a Lily fan (generally) but in no world, do i give him 3 mil. 2-2.5 max and even thats pushing it for me.
We need to try to move Kampf and Jarnkrok to free up more $$ for a better RHD, not to bring in a retread like Henrique.
We have home grown who can develop into better than we'd get from him at entry level prices.

 

[HockeyVirus]

If Friedmans speculation is right and Marner is staying oh boy.

Basically run it back with cheap goaltending and shoddy defense again and wait another season for change

 

[Niagara Bill]

What does playing north south mean?

Opposite from Marner

We need number 1 dman. If Marner stays then Reilly must go. We need 8 to 9 million fir our own Bouchard, and not Dougherty, he is done like JT

 

[Fogelhund]

I am a Lily fan (generally) but in no world, do i give him 3 mil. 2-2.5 max and even thats pushing it for me.
We need to try to move Kampf and Jarnkrok to free up more $$ for a better RHD, not to bring in a retread like Henrique.
We have home grown who can develop into better than we'd get from him at entry level prices.

Fair comments on Lilly.. but it still doesn't change the dollars much... give him $2 mil, and we only have $10.8, and I've probably underpaid Domi by a similar mil... so, back at square one... but even for arguments sake, you move Kampf and Jarnkrok,

You've got $14-15 mil to sign a 2C, 1/2 RD, 3/4RD, 1a/b Goalie... that's incredibly difficult.

Let's say you bargain bin this.... Get Boosh back.. he played decent with Rielly. $3 mil.
Roy at $5-6 You've got $6-8 mil left. Lindholm would take pretty much all of that... so no money left for a goalie... Stephenson would be cheaper... $5.6....

So... $1.7 left for a goalie.... Still pretty tough to get all of this done, without moving a core piece... and moving Rielly doesn't help much, as whomever we'd get to replace him, would cost the same.

ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
21	$87,700,000	$85,994,667	$0	$0	$1,705,333

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Roster​

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Knies, Matthew $925,000 LW, RW RFA - 1	Matthews, Auston $13,250,000 C NMC UFA - 4	Domi, Max $3,500,000 C, RW UFA
McMann, Bobby $1,350,000 RW, LW UFA - 2	Stephenson, Chandler $5,600,000 C, LW UFA	Nylander, William $11,500,000 RW NMC UFA - 8
Dewar, Connor $800,000 LW, C RFA	Tavares, John $11,000,000 C, LW NMC UFA - 1	Marner, Mitchell $10,903,000 RW NMC UFA - 1
Robertson, Nicholas $1,500,000 LW, RW RFA	Holmberg, Pontus $800,000 C, LW RFA - 1	Gregor, Noah $800,000 LW, RW RFA
Reaves, Ryan $1,350,000 RW UFA - 2		RW5
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Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Rielly, Morgan $7,500,000 LD NMC UFA - 6	Lyubushkin, Ilya $3,000,000 RD UFA	Woll, Joseph $766,667 G RFA - 1
McCabe, Jake $2,000,000 LD/RD M-NTC UFA - 1	Roy, Matt $5,000,000 RD UFA	G2
Benoit, Simon $1,350,000 LD UFA - 3	Liljegren, Timothy $2,000,000 RD RFA	G3
Timmins, Conor $1,100,000 RD RFA - 1

 

[TheGreenTBer]

I think it would just show that it’s going to take a few years to undo all the damage Dubas has done

In Dubas' defense I think with the benefit of hindsight he would have done things differently.

But actions have consequences. Not for him, apparently, because he failed upwards, but for the fans.

 

[Gilmour1996]

The main problem with this is that Marner is an east-west player to the core. He's fussy about his zone entries being clean and when you deny him the neutral zone he doesn't have the speed nor the strength to either blow by guys or dump and chase and get the puck back (especially not this).

Maybe Berube can gift Marner a 100 pound cell phone and a 50 pound BBQ spatula for the off-season to improve his strength. Alternative is for Mitch to follow the "Ben and Jose Get Big Quick" instruction manual over the summer.