What Roster changes do you make if Marner doesn't waive?

[myleafs]

In some ways he can learn to play different, but I don't think a passive person, can learn to become aggressive. Your instincts are still your instincts. Any real change would take massive personal commitment, and I doubt he thinks he really needs to change that drastically.

I agree on the coaching. I think we should have made the change in December maybe even early January. That would have given management adequate time under a new coach, to properly evaluate what changes in players were needed, if any. Could these guys adapt and improve with a new coach, and new message... if not, well... you can't keep doing the same thing, and expecting different results...

Apparently we can and we will

 

[myleafs]

once you are in the o-zone, there is no north-south ...north-south is how you get into the o-zone.

mind you, Marner isnt a dump and chase winger, and the leafs dont really have many that are.

their best 1-on-1 board player(s) is actually JT and Matthews, they usually win their board battles and can control the puck in tight, but, they arent the guys you send in to fetch the puck, that would need to fall to a McMann, or a Knies etc.
You will need a big bodied/physical digger on every line (or someone that plays big, like Domi), with the Marner's being the 3rd guy, ready to strip and control the puck away, and at that Marner would excel.
in the o-zone, its basically, dig-strip/control-shoot

They all need to buy in or it wont work.....Getting paid like a leader.... be a fkn leader and stop waiting for others to make life easier for you. The best do whatever it takes.

If Marner isn't willing to waive, I would view next year as a write-off, and use it as a development year. Bring in Cowan, Minten, and Grebyonkin. Find out what holes you need to fill once Tavares and Marner are off the books.

Domi-Matthews-Nylander
Cowan-Tavares-Jarnkrok
Knies-Minten-Marner
McMann-Kampf-Grebyonkin

Be patient. Live with the struggles.

Didn't Shanny say there is a time to be patient but this is not the time anymore?

 

[keonsbitterness]

Staple him to the third line and second PP unit. Make life uncomfortable. Bring his numbers down.

What if he really thrives in those roles? Can't see any coach not wanting to bump him up.

 

[rumman]

Cowan got abused in the memorial cup way more than marner did all year

Good times ahead, something to look forward to…….

 

[Dreakmur]

Montour is not sheltered, OEL and Kulikov are.

Montour doesn't PK and is sometimes replaced by Kulikov in defensive situations. I'd call that being sheltered.

There is a difference between being sheltered and being deployed offensively because you are better there.

There is a difference in the reason, but not the result.

Rielly was sheltered, sure.

He was, but not as much as Montour.

As for who can take the tough matchups, I'd be confident in McCabe/Montour or Rielly/Demelo.

They would both be mediocre to poor in that situation. That McCabe/Montour pairing is going to be a defensive comedy.

Adding Demelo improves the defensive side of the puck.

Adding Montour improves both.

We don't even have 4 capable PKers. Montour, Rielly, and Liljegren would all be liabilities.


Whoever gives Montour 8 million is going to regret it. Montour is just a lesser version of Rielly. Same age as Rielly. Smaller. Slower. Worse defensively. Worse offensively. He's got a better point shot, and he's a bit grittier. He's on Florida's 2 pairing, and get's a pile of PP time on an average PP.

 

[notbias]

Montour doesn't PK and is sometimes replaced by Kulikov in defensive situations. I'd call that being sheltered.

Based on zone starts he is middle of the pack.

There is a difference in the reason, but not the result.

Once again, not sheltered, but he does get a lot of ozone starts because he is good offensively.

He was, but not as much as Montour.

Less, would love to see your work though.

They would both be mediocre to poor in that situation. That McCabe/Montour pairing is going to be a defensive comedy.

We had mediocre to poor D last year and they were supposed to be defensive specialists, so I'll take the ones with great offensive instincts.

We don't even have 4 capable PKers. Montour, Rielly, and Liljegren would all be liabilities.

Would match the PK this year. We can sign a bunch of #6D like last year if it suits you better.

Rielly and Liljegren PKed, so have McCabe and Benoit, and Demelo PKs a lot too.

Whoever gives Montour 8 million is going to regret it. Montour is just a lesser version of Rielly. Same age as Rielly. Smaller. Slower. Worse defensively. Worse offensively. He's got a better point shot, and he's a bit grittier. He's on Florida's 2 pairing, and get's a pile of PP time on an average PP.

That may be the case, although I don't agree with your assessment of him.

 

[Dreakmur]

Based on zone starts he is middle of the pack.



Once again, not sheltered, but he does get a lot of ozone starts because he is good offensively.



Less, would love to see your work though.

I just pray Tre isn't dumb enough to bring Montour in. It's the Tyson Barrie acquisition all over again.

We had mediocre to poor D last year and they were supposed to be defensive specialists, so I'll take the ones with great offensive instincts.

I'd like to add good defensive guys who can make good transition passes. We should be making a huge push for Colton Parayko.

Would match the PK this year. We can sign a bunch of #6D like last year if it suits you better.

Rielly and Liljegren PKed, so have McCabe and Benoit, and Demelo PKs a lot too.

Demelo would be our only good PKer. McCabe ok. Benoit meh. The rest bad.

 

[notbias]

I just pray Tre isn't dumb enough to bring Montour in. It's the Tyson Barrie acquisition all over again.

Tre goes for the biggest name it appears, I think they will present an offer to him at the very least.

I'd like to add good defensive guys who can make good transition passes. We should be making a huge push for Colton Parayko.

Is Parayko good again? He wasn't for a while.

Demelo would be our only good PKer. McCabe ok. Benoit meh. The rest bad.

I am not signing guys only to PK, but sure, would be nice to pick up some more.

Maybe Benoit needs to go for a specialist, it'd be bad to waste a top 4 spot on a limited player who PKs well.

 

[Dreakmur]

Tre goes for the biggest name it appears, I think they will present an offer to him at the very least.

He might, and I'll trash him if it's anything over 5.5-6.0 per.

Is Parayko good again? He wasn't for a while.

When was he not good? St. Louis picked up some offensive specialists to replace Peitrangelo. As a result, Parayko both lost his offensive opportunites and took on Pietrangelo's huge defensive role. His stats looked worse, but that's explained by the change in role.

In the last 3 seasons, Parayko has led the NHL in non-PP ice time. 23:30 per game, with less than :30 on the PP.

Over that same time frame, he's put up 84 non-PP points. Montour has put up 85. The difference is Parayko's 4 PP points to Montour's 58.

I am not signing guys only to PK, but sure, would be nice to pick up some more.

Other than Parayko, I wanted to trade for Ryan McDonagh (who is no longer available), or Adam Larsson. Defensive studs that can play a ton, and make good first passes.

For UFA, Brady Skjei is easily the best D, so I'd obviously want him. As for the PKers who can make passes....... Chris Tanev, Matt Roy, Dylan Demelo. I think Josh Brown would be an under-rated #6/7. Sean Walker is a particularly good PKer, but he is a well rounded #4.

Maybe Benoit needs to go for a specialist, it'd be bad to waste a top 4 spot on a limited player who PKs well.

I think Benoit can develop into a good PKer.

 

[IPS]

When was he not good? St. Louis picked up some offensive specialists to replace Peitrangelo. As a result, Parayko both lost his offensive opportunites and took on Pietrangelo's huge defensive role. His stats looked worse, but that's explained by the change in role.

In the last 3 seasons, Parayko has led the NHL in non-PP ice time. 23:30 per game, with less than :30 on the PP.

Over that same time frame, he's put up 84 non-PP points. Montour has put up 85. The difference is Parayko's 4 PP points to Montour's 58.

It's like Hampus LIndholm all over again.

You'll see a bunch of calculator wielding nitwits come out of the woodwork with their dumb stats saying Parayko is done or just not good anymore despite probably never even watching 5 minutes of him playing.

It's the same old Parayko as always, just on a sub-par team. Put him on a good team and all of a sudden he's gonna look good again, guaranteed.

 

[notbias]

It's like Hampus LIndholm all over again.

You'll see a bunch of calculator wielding nitwits come out of the woodwork with their dumb stats saying Parayko is done or just not good anymore despite probably never even watching 5 minutes of him playing.

It's the same old Parayko as always, just on a sub-par team. Put him on a good team and all of a sudden he's gonna look good again, guaranteed.

Are the Leafs a good team now?

Bunch of nitwits can't decide if this team is good or not.

 

[Dreakmur]

Are the Leafs a good team now?

Bunch of nitwits can't decide if this team is good or not.

Everyone knows this team is good. I assume you think the "nitwits" are the ones who think good isn't good enough.

 

[Fogelhund]

Apparently we can and we will

Nah.. we could, now we don't.

 

[TMLAM34]

I’d re-sign Bertuzzi (5) and trade Liljegren and Robertson in a package deal for McBain and a draft pick. My forward group would be -

Knies - Matthews - Bertuzzi
McMann - Tavares - Marner
Jarnkrok - Minten - Nylander
Holmberg - McBain - Cowan

Grebenkin can fight with McMann and Holmberg for a spot.

 

[Fogelhund]

It's like Hampus LIndholm all over again.

You'll see a bunch of calculator wielding nitwits come out of the woodwork with their dumb stats saying Parayko is done or just not good anymore despite probably never even watching 5 minutes of him playing.

It's the same old Parayko as always, just on a sub-par team. Put him on a good team and all of a sudden he's gonna look good again, guaranteed.

Nah.. he actually had a couple of bad years... had some back issues, and seems to have recovered now.. but there is some risk there. He had a decent year this year, despite the team.

I’d re-sign Bertuzzi (5) and trade Liljegren and Robertson in a package deal for McBain and a draft pick. My forward group would be -

Knies - Matthews - Bertuzzi
McMann - Tavares - Marner
Jarnkrok - Minten - Nylander
Holmberg - McBain - Cowan

Grebenkin can fight with McMann and Holmberg for a spot.

You like Bertuzzi over Domi... interesting. What made you choose him over Max?

 

[TMLAM34]

Nah.. he actually had a couple of bad years... had some back issues, and seems to have recovered now.. but there is some risk there. He had a decent year this year, despite the team.


You like Bertuzzi over Domi... interesting. What made you choose him over Max?

Loved what Domi brought in the second half of the season (similar to Bertuzzi) and ideally we move on from Marner and re-sign Domi as well but if Marner stays and I had to choose between Bertuzzi and Domi, I think I would pick Bertuzzi.

Bertuzzi is a dog out there, hustles on every puck, is willing to sacrifice the body to block shots or simply just clear the puck out of the zone, goes to the dirty areas and is also willing to drop the gloves when needed. His defensive side of the game is underrated IMO like his playmaking ability. I just think he brings more to the table than Domi who is a pure offensive playmaker who will stick up for his teammates.

 

[Dreakmur]

Nah.. he actually had a couple of bad years... had some back issues, and seems to have recovered now.. but there is some risk there. He had a decent year this year, despite the team.

A couple of bad years? What years? He hurt his back during the 2020-21 season. In 2021-22, he was a monster. Led St. Louis in ice time, despite not playing on the PP…. Scored 35 points despite not playing on the PP. Then we was great in the playoffs on route to a series win.

 

[Fogelhund]

A couple of bad years? What years? He hurt his back during the 2020-21 season. In 2021-22, he was a monster. Led St. Louis in ice time, despite not playing on the PP…. Scored 35 points despite not playing on the PP. Then we was great in the playoffs on route to a series win.

Yes, he put up 35 points, but the defensive side wasn't what it had been... for many reasons..

I mean... Blues fans know him best... and this is an accurate portrayal.

St. Louis Blues: It May Take Something Drastic To Revive Colton Parayko’s Image

St. Louis Blues defenseman Colton Parayko has improved his play since the 2023 trade deadline. That may not be enough to convince fans though.

bleedinblue.com

 

[Fogelhund]

Loved what Domi brought in the second half of the season (similar to Bertuzzi) and ideally we move on from Marner and re-sign Domi as well but if Marner stays and I had to choose between Bertuzzi and Domi, I think I would pick Bertuzzi.

Bertuzzi is a dog out there, hustles on every puck, is willing to sacrifice the body to block shots or simply just clear the puck out of the zone, goes to the dirty areas and is also willing to drop the gloves when needed. His defensive side of the game is underrated IMO like his playmaking ability. I just think he brings more to the table than Domi who is a pure offensive playmaker who will stick up for his teammates.

Me personally, I prefer Domi's versatility, and ability to move the puck. But I appreciate your response, and reasoning. I also think Domi will be cheaper.

 

[Dough72]

our defense is not the problem. We lose in the playoffs because our star forwards all look noticeably worse. That includes Nylander despite the growing legend Of Playoff Willy who's incredible exploits include flipping a puck in from the blueline and shooting into an open net because a Bruin tripped in the corner.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

our defense is not the problem. We lose in the playoffs because our star forwards all look noticeably worse. That includes Nylander despite the growing legend Of Playoff Willy who's incredible exploits include flipping a puck in from the blueline and shooting into an open net because a Bruin tripped in the corner.

He's still the best of the lot.

Marner and Matthews have proven ineffective in the playoffs.

If winning a cup is the goal, which it probably isnt. Marner has to go *AT A MINIMUM*. I would not hesitate to trade Matthews as well.

To me the problem is the organization. MLSE sees no urgency - they are making lots of money so nobody cares.

 

[Dough72]

Me personally, I prefer Domi's versatility, and ability to move the puck. But I appreciate your response, and reasoning. I also think Domi will be cheaper.

he brings character that's for sure. And he's talented. Hope fans don't expect him to replace Marner though he is not at that level. Like half his passes he forces the issue when nothing is there and the other team ends up with the puck. That stuff will get on Matthews nerves as the season goes along and it starts leading to wasted shifts every game. If one of them is earmarked for Matthews it should probably be Bertuzzi who brings Hyman stuff to the line.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Staple him to the third line and second PP unit. Make life uncomfortable. Bring his numbers down.

Yes please.

Of course that's not how you phrase it.

You are "using your core pieces to drive three lines".

and who knows Mitch could be successful in the regular season against 3rd lines.

Ultimately the Leafs are moving on. Mitch can choose to degrade his value by preventing the team from moving in another direction. Dubas who signed the deal is gone. The new coach is moving in another direction.

AND



MITCH NEEDS CHANGE.


He looked terrible the last 1/3 of the season. His half ass PKing was terribad.

I think Mitch will thrive elsewhere.
I think the Leafs need balance, and will NOT achieve that without him moving on.

It's not an ill will thing. It's time for change. The rebuilt core has failed. It failed. Running back something that failed serves no one.

And Mitch can't handle the heat.

I see the Leafs retaining salary to help get this done.

everyone knows it's the end of the road.

Nobody will believe Mitch if he hits the ice in October pretending he worked with the team on a deal.

He'll buckle under the pressure WITHOUT question.

He's gone.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

The point is... he isn't weak... it's not the lack of strength that's this issue... just clarifying for discussion... yes, he avoids contact like it's the plague... but that's a mental thing... not a physical thing. I agree with your viewpoint though.

He wasn't as averse to contact earlier in his career. It seems that once he got paid and "Fancy Mitch" started getting accolades...he turned into Kessel.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

He wasn't as averse to contact earlier in his career. It seems that once he got paid and "Fancy Mitch" started getting accolades...he turned into Kessel.

Don't exaggerate.

He has tiny shoulders and would get destroyed.

He doesn't have the physical mass to make significant contact.