What probability do you feel Ovechkin has to catch Gretzky now?

[Video Nasty]

Obviously there are differences between eras, but as always, they’re way overblown when discussing the elite talents of any time period, particularly when so many of these players’ careers overlapped.

People are so hung up trying to convince others that Gretzky wouldn’t torch the league today when during the 2015-2016 season (McDavid’s rookie year), Jagr at age 43 (he turned 44 about 2/3 of the way through the season) potted 27 goals on 143 shots (18.9 shooting percentage) and put up 66 points in 79 games and led Florida in scoring and was second in goals.

He had 10 goals and 16 assists for 26 points in 25 games after the game on his 44th birthday that season. 44 year old Jagr actually played better down the stretch than earlier in the season with fresher legs.

And I’m supposed to believe that a 22 year old Gretzky couldn’t pot at least 40 goals in today’s game.

The game has not advanced to the degree that others have been brainwashed into believing.

 

[VVP]

Obviously there are differences between eras, but as always, they’re way overblown when discussing the elite talents of any time period, particularly when so many of these players’ careers overlapped.

People are so hung up trying to convince others that Gretzky wouldn’t torch the league today when during the 2015-2016 season (McDavid’s rookie year), Jagr at age 43 (he turned 44 about 2/3 of the way through the season) potted 27 goals on 143 shots (18.9 shooting percentage) and put up 66 points in 79 games and led Florida in scoring and was second in goals.

He had 10 goals and 16 assists for 26 points in 25 games after the game on his 44th birthday that season. 44 year old Jagr actually played better down the stretch than earlier in the season with fresher legs.

And I’m supposed to believe that a 22 year old Gretzky couldn’t pot at least 40 goals in today’s game.

The game has not advanced to the degree that others have been brainwashed into believing.

It is because Jagr is the second best scorer in the history of the NHL after Ovechkin. If Jagr could play all of his career in the NHL his numbers would have been insane and basically impossible to beat as far as scoring is concerned. In addition to that Jagr is a freak of nature. He still plays hockey.

 

[Leafs1991]

Obviously there are differences between eras, but as always, they’re way overblown when discussing the elite talents of any time period, particularly when so many of these players’ careers overlapped.

People are so hung up trying to convince others that Gretzky wouldn’t torch the league today when during the 2015-2016 season (McDavid’s rookie year), Jagr at age 43 (he turned 44 about 2/3 of the way through the season) potted 27 goals on 143 shots (18.9 shooting percentage) and put up 66 points in 79 games and led Florida in scoring and was second in goals.

He had 10 goals and 16 assists for 26 points in 25 games after the game on his 44th birthday that season. 44 year old Jagr actually played better down the stretch than earlier in the season with fresher legs.

And I’m supposed to believe that a 22 year old Gretzky couldn’t pot at least 40 goals in today’s game.

The game has not advanced to the degree that others have been brainwashed into believing.

We aren't brainwashed into believing it. If you watch games from when Gretzky played and games now, there's a massive difference in how the games are played. For example, goalies looked terrible compared to now, players are slower, the defense wasn't as good, third and fourth liners aren't nearly as good or talented as today.

If Gretzky had modern-day training, ya, he would definitely be really good. But without it, he wouldn't be in the NHL. The game has evolved and if you're not seeing that, then I don't what to tell you.

 

[Firsov99]

It is because Jagr is the second best scorer in the history of the NHL after Ovechkin. If Jagr could play all of his career in the NHL his numbers would have been insane and basically impossible to beat as far as scoring is concerned. In addition to that Jagr is a freak of nature. He still plays hockey.

I think Bobby Hull is up for there too considering that he spent six full seasons in the WHA.

 

[Leafs1991]

Laughable

That goaltending is so trash lol

 

[Video Nasty]

It is because Jagr is the second best scorer in the history of the NHL after Ovechkin. If Jagr could play all of his career in the NHL his numbers would have been insane and basically impossible to beat as far as scoring is concerned. In addition to that Jagr is a freak of nature. He still plays hockey.

Argue Ovechkin all you want that’s fine. But Jagr over someone like Mario? Hmm okay.

It was Jagr’s choice to not play in the NHL when he left. From his own mouth, he said the KHL revitalized his passion for the game and allowed him to return later. It’s an irrelevant exercise to argue what could have been in regards to his numbers.

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

Meh. How many seasons did Jagr miss? Would he have ended up with more than 894 goals? Certainly would have broke 2,000-2,100 points,

Anyway, as mentioned, his KHL stint rejuvenated his love for the game and made him want to return to the NHL.

 

[Video Nasty]

We aren't brainwashed into believing it. If you watch games from when Gretzky played and games now, there's a massive difference in how the games are played. For example, goalies looked terrible compared to now, players are slower, the defense wasn't as good, third and fourth liners aren't nearly as good or talented as today.

If Gretzky had modern-day training, ya, he would definitely be really good. But without it, he wouldn't be in the NHL. The game has evolved and if you're not seeing that, then I don't what to tell you.

Read my post again carefully. I agree with you what you say, but it’s overstated by a lot and the very best players would have little issue transcending eras.

You also glossed over 43-44 year old Jagr having little issue with today’s game. So he could handle it, but a Gretzky half his age couldn’t?

 

[613Leafer]

Love seeing him heat up. I think he's the greatest goal scorer of all time, even if he doesn't end up with the most goals. You need to account for the low goal scoring era he's been in, and how many more teams/players/competition there is now for winning major awards.

 

[Kap-the-Head]

I think if you put Selanne and Sakic carte blanche and dropped them in the league from 79-85 they'd absolutely annihilate the NHL goal scoring wise. We can never prove this but Gretzky doesn't have any of the tools that constitute what an elite goal scorer needs in today's NHL and it's ludicrous to think he'd come in and just score 60 when no one does this now.

I think one fact people overlook is Gretzky's international career, where competition was closer to today's NHL, then to NHL 30+ years ago. Gretzky scored 57 points (17 goals and 40 assists) in 31 games of Canada's cup. He had just 3 goals in 1987 9-game Canada cup. And those games were not all against the USSR. Therefore, looking at those assists, it is easy to see why he is considered to be one of the smartest players to ever play the game, but when it comes to scoring goals, he would not dominate the game in today's NHL, just like he did not dominate it on the international level (goal scoring wise).

 

[Mulletman]

Meh. How many seasons did Jagr miss? Would he have ended up with more than 894 goals? Certainly would have broke 2,000-2,100 points,

Anyway, as mentioned, his KHL stint rejuvenated his love for the game and made him want to return to the NHL.

Jagr could've easily rejuvenate his love for the game in a place like Anaheim or Arizona instead. No need to go to the KHL for that...

 

[VVP]

I think one fact people overlook is Gretzky's international career, where competition was closer to today's NHL, then to NHL 30+ years ago. Gretzky scored 57 points (17 goals and 40 assists) in 31 games of Canada's cup. He had just 3 goals in 1987 9-game Canada cup. And those games were not all against the USSR. Therefore, looking at those assists, it is easy to see why he is considered to be one of the smartest players to ever play the game, but when it comes to scoring goals, he would not dominate the game in today's NHL, just like he did not dominate it on the international level (goal scoring wise).

I think that is a great observation, which sounds about right in terms of goals to assists ratio. Wayne probably would have been putting 120 points with 37 goals and 83 assists or in that ball park.

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

 

[TomppaKoo]

The probability is 0 %

 

[Leafs1991]

Read my post again carefully. I agree with you what you say, but it’s overstated by a lot and the very best players would have little issue transcending eras.

You also glossed over 43-44 year old Jagr having little issue with today’s game. So he could handle it, but a Gretzky half his age couldn’t?

I glossed over it because Jagr was/is a completely different player. When I see old replays/games of the 80s/early 90s it's hard for me to find a true appreciation for what players accomplished in that era given all the reasons I stated above.

And yes, I glossed over it because Jagr came from a slightly different era, he is about 15 years younger than Gretzky and had much better training and be more physially prepared to play and withstand the rigours of the NHL, it's why he is still playing hockey. They're two completely different physically built players.

Gretzky at the age of 30 (if you want to half Gretzky's current age) could handle it with modern training. But he wouldn't be a quality player in the NHL without modern-day training. His physical tools weren't that developed. Check out that highlight video of his slapshot goals in this thread. If you can go watch that and still state that he could be the same player without modern training, then I don't know what to say.

Edit, read your other post one more time. A 22-year-old Gretzky with modern-day training could do it. But without modern-day training, he wouldn't come close to being that good.

 

[Amazinmets73]

We aren't brainwashed into believing it. If you watch games from when Gretzky played and games now, there's a massive difference in how the games are played. For example, goalies looked terrible compared to now, players are slower, the defense wasn't as good, third and fourth liners aren't nearly as good or talented as today.

If Gretzky had modern-day training, ya, he would definitely be really good. But without it, he wouldn't be in the NHL. The game has evolved and if you're not seeing that, then I don't what to tell you.

Woah, wait. You're telling me that if we gave Gretzky contemporary equipment but restricted him to training methods from the 80s and 90s, he wouldn't crack an NHL roster?

 

[illpucks]

The probability is 0 %

Why? He could finish this season at 732
Then 44 goals next season so 776
Then 38 goals so 814
Then 32 goals so 846
Then 27 goals so 873
Then 22 goals so 895

 

[gtrower]

The probability is 0 %

People love posting odds like this until bets are offered using them.

 

[Amazinmets73]

I glossed over it because Jagr was/is a completely different player. When I see old replays/games of the 80s/early 90s it's hard for me to find a true appreciation for what players accomplished in that era given all the reasons I stated above.

And yes, I glossed over it because Jagr came from a slightly different era, he is about 15 years younger than Gretzky and had much better training and be more physially prepared to play and withstand the rigours of the NHL, it's why he is still playing hockey. They're two completely different physically built players.

Gretzky at the age of 30 (if you want to half Gretzky's current age) could handle it with modern training. But he wouldn't be a quality player in the NHL without modern-day training. His physical tools weren't that developed. Check out that highlight video of his slapshot goals in this thread. If you can go watch that and still state that he could be the same player without modern training, then I don't know what to say.

Edit, read your other post one more time. A 22-year-old Gretzky with modern-day training could do it. But without modern-day training, he wouldn't come close to being that good.

I feel this is nonsense. As long as he had access to modern equipment, mid 80s Gretzky would be an above-average player in the contemporary NHL.

 

[Leafs1991]

I feel this is nonsense. As long as he had access to modern equipment, mid 80s Gretzky would be an above-average player in the contemporary NHL.

If he had modern-day training to go along with it, then yes. The players in the 80's just don't have the same physical tools as the players in the modern age.

 

[illpucks]

No, McDavid has a better top speed than Gretzky. This is McDavids advantage. Gretzky wouldn't be scoring more than McDavid.

 

[VVP]

I see it now. If Gretzky beat Pele (20 years senior) this easy than it is a definite proof. I give up.

 

[Amazinmets73]

If he had modern-day training to go along with it, then yes. The players in the 80's just don't have the same physical tools as the players in the modern age.

No, modern equipment, 80s training. Above-average player.

 

[Hatfield]

You may want to look up Kurri's and Coffey's stats WITHOUT Gretzky, before pronouncing such nonsense.

Kurri had one 100 point season and no 50 goal seasons after Gretzky left Edmonton. Is that HOF worthy? Maybe??

Coffey’s probably HOF worthy either way, but I think his career would have been more comparable to Larry Murphy’s if you took away the insane numbers he put up in Edmonton.

 

[Amazinmets73]

How many scoring titles has Grabner won?